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2013 NHL Draft Talk Part V: Flyers own the 11th overall pick

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06-19-2013, 03:15 PM
  #576
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
I don't think he will be a bust, but I don't think he will be the two way dman we need.
I think this is closer to what I am trying to say. I think he will be a solid defenseman but there are probably better options in the draft for us

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06-19-2013, 03:17 PM
  #577
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Funny how we are mentioning busts when no one has been drafted yet...

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06-19-2013, 03:24 PM
  #578
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
I don't think he will be a bust, but I don't think he will be the two way dman we need.
What kind of defenseman will this team need in 4 years?

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06-19-2013, 03:26 PM
  #579
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
What kind of defenseman will this team need in 4 years?
Someone not Luke Schenn or Erik Gustafsson because those are the only two I could see still with this team in 4 years.

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06-19-2013, 04:13 PM
  #580
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Someone not Luke Schenn or Erik Gustafsson because those are the only two I could see still with this team in 4 years.
What about the guy we just gave a 4 year, 35+ contract complete with a limited NTC?

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06-19-2013, 04:16 PM
  #581
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
What kind of defenseman will this team need in 4 years?
You can never have enough defenders that can play in both ends of the ice. Bruisers are overrated.

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06-19-2013, 04:20 PM
  #582
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I think there is a difference between rushing and allowing a kid capable of playing the in the NHL actually play in the NHL. If the team thinks Nurse can play in the NHL and succeed, why send him back to juniors or the AHL if there is a spot for him on the roster? Obviously if there is no spot for him, I wouldn't force it, but if he can play and will improve this team, I see no problem with letting him play over whatever the alternative might be. If he can't play in the NHL, or struggles to play in the NHL, then I agree they shouldn't rush it. Every player is a case by case basis and I don't think there is a hard-and-fast rule for developing any position. If a guy makes the team, he makes the team.
Capable of playing doesn't mean they should be playing. Sbisa was capable of playing. Was that the right decision?

Considering most of the better dmen in the league spent time developing elsewhere that would appear to be best route in developing a defenseman. Why go against what works? Just so you can root for the shiniest new toy? We all know what will happen if Nurse or whoever isn't a top pairing defender in a couple of years.

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06-19-2013, 04:23 PM
  #583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
Capable of playing doesn't mean they should be playing. Sbisa was capable of playing. Was that the right decision?

Considering most of the better dmen in the league spent time developing elsewhere that would appear to be best route in developing a defenseman. Why go against what works? Just so you can root for the shiniest new toy? We all know what will happen if Nurse or whoever isn't a top pairing defender in a couple of years.
It's not the organization's fault that fans are stupid. Any high pick that isn't immediately making an impact is going to be *****ed and moaned about around here, and any late pick that cracks the NHL lineup will be heralded as a good prospect around here. That goes for defenders, forwards, etc. If Laughton doesn't make the team next year, people will complain. That is not the organization's fault. If the organization listen's to these complaints, then that is the organization's fault.

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06-19-2013, 04:25 PM
  #584
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Originally Posted by Coppy View Post
What about the guy we just gave a 4 year, 35+ contract complete with a limited NTC?
June 19th, 2013 (TODAY)

2013-14 (YEAR 1)
Timonen - Schenn
Streit - Coburn
Gustafsson - Grossmann

2014-15 (YEAR 2)
Streit - Coburn
Gustafsson - Schenn
(Gostisbehere) - Grossmann

2015-16 (YEAR 3)
Streit - Coburn
Gustafsson - Schenn
(Gostisbehere) - Grossmann

2016-17 (YEAR 4)
Gustafsson - (Schenn)
Streit - [Coburn?]
(Gostisbehere) - xxxxx

June 19th, 2017 (FOUR YEARS FROM NOW)

2017-18
Gustafsson - Schenn
Gostisbehere - [Coburn?]
xxxxx - xxxxx

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06-19-2013, 04:35 PM
  #585
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
June 19th, 2013 (TODAY)

2013-14 (YEAR 1)
Timonen - Schenn
Streit - Coburn
Gustafsson - Grossmann

2014-15 (YEAR 2)
Streit - Coburn
Gustafsson - Schenn
(Gostisbehere) - Grossmann

2015-16 (YEAR 3)
Streit - Coburn
Gustafsson - Schenn
(Gostisbehere) - Grossmann

2016-17 (YEAR 4)
Gustafsson - (Schenn)
Streit - [Coburn?]
(Gostisbehere) - xxxxx

June 19th, 2017 (FOUR YEARS FROM NOW)

2017-18
Gustafsson - Schenn
Gostisbehere - [Coburn?]
xxxxx - xxxxx
That's expecting an awful lot of Gustafson and gostisbehere

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Old
06-19-2013, 04:47 PM
  #586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
It's not the organization's fault that fans are stupid. Any high pick that isn't immediately making an impact is going to be *****ed and moaned about around here, and any late pick that cracks the NHL lineup will be heralded as a good prospect around here. That goes for defenders, forwards, etc. If Laughton doesn't make the team next year, people will complain. That is not the organization's fault. If the organization listen's to these complaints, then that is the organization's fault.
If this is the case they aren't very bright. There are few NHL ready prospects at pick 11. In fact if you look at all of the drafts since 2000 only one 11th overall pick played a game in the NHL the season after he was drafted. That was Filip Forsberg who played in the last 5 games for the Preds last season.

There's really no reason to believe whoever we pick @ 11 should be in the NHL next season except pure desperation.

I'm also not just talking about how the fans react. The organization has been known to give up on players early and see them go on and have success elsewhere.

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06-19-2013, 05:00 PM
  #587
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
If this is the case they aren't very bright. There are few NHL ready prospects at pick 11. In fact if you look at all of the drafts since 2000 only one 11th overall pick played a game in the NHL the season after he was drafted. That was Filip Forsberg who played in the last 5 games for the Preds last season.

There's really no reason to believe whoever we pick @ 11 should be in the NHL next season except pure desperation.

I'm also not just talking about how the fans react. The organization has been known to give up on players early and see them go on and have success elsewhere.
Hmm, Ristolainen plays a man's game in a man's league, and he's one of the older players in the draft (almost a full year older than MacKinnon). It wouldn't be a stretch to say his development would be accelerated by playing in the NHL next year. He has NHL size already weighing in above 200 pounds with a big frame.

I agree that it's rare to see an 11th pick that's NHL ready, but I think Ristolainen is one of the rare players who fits. He's had a full year of development over his counterparts already.

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06-19-2013, 05:02 PM
  #588
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
That's expecting an awful lot of Gustafson and gostisbehere
Yeah, but hopefully we will have other prospects in the pipeline assuming we actually start drafting some defensemen.

Four years of drafting defensemen will fix our prospect pool.

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06-19-2013, 05:03 PM
  #589
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Hmm, Ristolainen plays a man's game in a man's league, and he's one of the older players in the draft (almost a full year older than MacKinnon). It wouldn't be a stretch to say his development would be accelerated by playing in the NHL next year. He has NHL size already weighing in above 200 pounds with a big frame.

I agree that it's rare to see an 11th pick that's NHL ready, but I think Ristolainen is one of the rare players who fits. He's had a full year of development over his counterparts already.
With the acquisition of Streit, we don't need a defenseman who is NHL-ready.

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06-19-2013, 05:07 PM
  #590
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
With the acquisition of Streit, we don't need a defenseman who is NHL-ready.
I know. I'm not necessarily an advocate of drafting Ristolainen. I was just pointing out that it wouldn't exactly be "pure desperation" to see the 11th overall player in the NHL next season when he is someone who appears to be ready for it.

And I would argue even without Streit, it would be stupid to draft based on immediate team needs. Anybody who expects a player outside of the top 5 to step in and fill a major hole in the lineup is not somebody who should be close to an NHL team.

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06-19-2013, 05:46 PM
  #591
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Anyone else think Mantha might be the next Jeff Carter? Or is that just me? I've only read about him and watched highlights, so someone who has seen him play could give better insight.


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Old
06-19-2013, 08:59 PM
  #592
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Hmm, Ristolainen plays a man's game in a man's league, and he's one of the older players in the draft (almost a full year older than MacKinnon). It wouldn't be a stretch to say his development would be accelerated by playing in the NHL next year. He has NHL size already weighing in above 200 pounds with a big frame.

I agree that it's rare to see an 11th pick that's NHL ready, but I think Ristolainen is one of the rare players who fits. He's had a full year of development over his counterparts already.
As someone who has Ristolainen as her #1 choice for the 11th pick, I agree that he is one of the most NHL ready defenseman. Yet, I still think he would be better off in the SM-Liiga for another year or two. He still needs to develop his offensive game and he is better off doing it there. By time he is ready he will be a legit top 4 D, maybe even vying for the first pairing, and he'll only be on an entry level deal. I think letting him do most of his development elsewhere before we start the clock running on his ELC will maximize his value to us.

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06-19-2013, 10:00 PM
  #593
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I'd think that if a more advanced / mature defender like Ristolainen would probably stay in the minors, and then would have a decent chance at training camp 2014-15 to make the team. The Flyers, though, are not averse to rewarding a rookie for a spectacular training camp (eg, Couturier). So I wouldn't be surprised -- not happy, but not surprised -- if Ristolainen got the max number of games without starting his major-league clock.

I like that Ristolainen could go to the Phantoms and considerably up the defensive quality.

Yes, I'm going on about only one of several potential draft options. Ristolainen is my not-terribly-original gut feeling.

EDIT: I just saw your point, HC, about the advantage of Ristolainen staying in SM-Liiga. I wouldn't be averse to this, but I'm thinking about how his presence makes the Phantoms roster better.

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06-19-2013, 10:12 PM
  #594
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I'd think that if a more advanced / mature defender like Ristolainen would probably stay in the minors, and then would have a decent chance at training camp 2014-15 to make the team. The Flyers, though, are not averse to rewarding a rookie for a spectacular training camp (eg, Couturier). So I wouldn't be surprised -- not happy, but not surprised -- if Ristolainen got the max number of games without starting his major-league clock.

I like that Ristolainen could go to the Phantoms and considerably up the defensive quality.

Yes, I'm going on about only one of several potential draft options. Ristolainen is my not-terribly-original gut feeling.

EDIT: I just saw your point, HC, about the advantage of Ristolainen staying in SM-Liiga. I wouldn't be averse to this, but I'm thinking about how his presence makes the Phantoms roster better.
Assuming we drafted Ristolainen I wouldn't be opposed to him going to training camp and then heading to the AHL. The AHL is a better league than the SM-Liiga and it has the NHL rink surface and rules which he would have to get accustomed to anyway. If it was a forward I would agree with the ELC years but not with defensemen. Just going off the two year frame that would give him one year to really light it on fire to get a significant raise otherwise it would but probably a couple $100K raise.

It would also make the Phantoms blue-line better thus making the team better which wouldn't be a bad thing for Ristolanien and other young players down there.

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06-19-2013, 10:21 PM
  #595
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Assuming we drafted Ristolainen I wouldn't be opposed to him going to training camp and then heading to the AHL. The AHL is a better league than the SM-Liiga and it has the NHL rink surface and rules which he would have to get accustomed to anyway. If it was a forward I would agree with the ELC years but not with defensemen. Just going off the two year frame that would give him one year to really light it on fire to get a significant raise otherwise it would but probably a couple $100K raise.

It would also make the Phantoms blue-line better thus making the team better which wouldn't be a bad thing for Ristolanien and other young players down there.
And the fact that the Flyers would control his development, though I'd want someone better than Kjell Samuelsson coaching him. Of course, there's always the Kimmo Timonen factor as a fellow Finn.

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06-19-2013, 11:02 PM
  #596
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Anyone else think Mantha might be the next Jeff Carter? Or is that just me? I've only read about him and watched highlights, so someone who has seen him play could give better insight.
Mantha is much more physical than carter, but not as good away from the puck. He drives from the outside a lot and sets up at the circle for one timers, while carter usually just carries the puck and whips a snapshot. I'd say he's much more akin to a Corey perry type of player than Jeff carter, although Mantha does have the skating tenacity that carter has. He also uses the same 1 on 1 move that carter uses (the dip forehand backhand) all the time.

I'm a huge Mantha fan and I think his game is going to translate very well to the NHL if he plays with a good center who can get him the puck. I really think that if we don't like what's there in terms of defense at #11 we should take him.

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06-19-2013, 11:09 PM
  #597
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Out of curiousity (maybe it's been discussed here or some other thread, sorry if it has), is anyone going up to Newark for the draft?

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06-19-2013, 11:13 PM
  #598
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And the fact that the Flyers would control his development, though I'd want someone better than Kjell Samuelsson coaching him. Of course, there's always the Kimmo Timonen factor as a fellow Finn.
Yeah I hear you on Samuelsson but I don't know if Kimmo plans on staying in the area after next year. He actually owns a SM-liiga team along with Hartnell and Sami Kapanen (Kimmo's brother is the GM too) so I don't know if he has plans to go back to Finland or not.

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06-20-2013, 03:05 AM
  #599
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That's expecting an awful lot of Gustafson and gostisbehere
This.

I think if one of Gus/Ghost actually becomes a legit top4 defenseman in this league, we can already call this project a success.
They may not even ever play on the same team together, if Gus does not take the next step in his career this year to prove he can be a regular on this team he has no future with the Flyers and Ghost is still a long shot in general...

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06-20-2013, 03:33 AM
  #600
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This.

I think if one of Gus/Ghost actually becomes a legit top4 defenseman in this league, we can already call this project a success.
They may not even ever play on the same team together, if Gus does not take the next step in his career this year to prove he can be a regular on this team he has no future with the Flyers and Ghost is still a long shot in general...
TRADE THEM ALL!!!!!

(I actually think Gus is going to be something good)


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