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The Rumors and Speculation Thread #6

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Old
06-19-2013, 03:25 PM
  #651
BernieParent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Yes, 10% offseason cushion.
For most organizations, it's a cushion. For Holmgren, it's an airbag.

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06-19-2013, 03:26 PM
  #652
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
For most organizations, it's a cushion. For Holmgren, it's an airbag.


You sir, win the thread.

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06-19-2013, 03:27 PM
  #653
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
If this deal isn't made until after we draft, then I wouldn't hesitate to make that our 2014 pick.

However, if we do it at the draft, ANA is going to want our 11th overall.
If it is done after the draft I am on board

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06-19-2013, 04:50 PM
  #654
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Coburn + Read + 11th

for

Ryan + Hiller + Sbisa

The value seems relatively fair considering various recent deals around the NHL as well as many rumors floating about.
This deal would get the team closer to the playoffs, but closer to the Cup? I doubt it. I think it ultimately hinders the team's long-term upside.

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06-19-2013, 04:51 PM
  #655
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Coburn, Read, 11th for Ryan, Bryan Allen. That could work greatly for both teams.

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06-19-2013, 04:56 PM
  #656
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I don't see how trading for Ryan makes any sense right now? He's not worth the assets you'd have to give up.

I hope Homer just stays away but that's probably wishful thinking.

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06-19-2013, 04:58 PM
  #657
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Originally Posted by SchennSational1022 View Post
Coburn, Read, 11th for Ryan, Bryan Allen. That could work greatly for both teams.
Definite not from my POV.

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06-19-2013, 05:09 PM
  #658
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These Ryan proposals are terrifying me. I want absolutely no part of Ryan at any of these prices.

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06-19-2013, 05:28 PM
  #659
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
These Ryan proposals are terrifying me. I want absolutely no part of Ryan at any of these prices.
Remember last summer when many people were clamoring to give up Voracek + Read for him? Yikes. There is a segment that horrifically overrates him.

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06-19-2013, 05:32 PM
  #660
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
These Ryan proposals are terrifying me. I want absolutely no part of Ryan at any of these prices.
Yeah when Meltzer wrote today that he will remind a lot of Flyers fans of JVR I became a lot less excited about the idea.

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06-19-2013, 05:35 PM
  #661
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Why would one shortened season take away from the rest of their careers?
You sir win the argument

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Old
06-19-2013, 05:37 PM
  #662
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Ryan+Sbisa <-> Coburn+Read+2/2014
Ryan+Sbisa <-> Meszarov+Read+1/2014

I would do both.

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06-19-2013, 05:40 PM
  #663
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Originally Posted by JayB View Post
Ryan+Sbisa <-> Coburn+Read+2/2014
Ryan+Sbisa <-> Meszarov+Read+1/2014

I would do both.
I'm sure you would but that doesn't mean Anaheim would too.

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Old
06-19-2013, 05:41 PM
  #664
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The JVR - Schenn trade seems to put Ryan's value somewhere around Coburn.

I don't know why we should have to pay significantly more like the addition of a 1st unless we're getting a package that fills various needs.

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06-19-2013, 05:45 PM
  #665
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If any of you have followed Anaheim games and not just highlights, i believe that you will be thinking a lot differently. Meltzer put it perfect about Ryan today and it really is the truth.

Pros for Ryan-
Size
Strength
4 straight 30 goal seasons (not counting this year)
Exciting to watch at times

Cons for Ryan-
Majorly inconsistent
Looks lazy and lost at times
Does not play both sides of the puck effectively
Needs to work on his play without the puck

Should he be worth coburn plus the 11th when the flyers really need that pick to draft a defenseman who they can use for the long haul? IMO no way, he's very over valued.

Here was Meltzers take on the situation -

My own feelings on Ryan haven't changed from last year. Despite a bit of a down year this past season, he remains a fine offensive winger who can be relied on for 30-plus goals in a full season. But he has limitations. The reality of Ryan's overall game is that he's similar player to another former second overall draft pick, ex-Flyer James van Riemsdyk (who, in his fourth NHL season, outproduced sixth-season NHLer Ryan this year in both goals and points). If you didn't like JVR when you watched him on an every-game basis, you probably won't like Ryan much better.

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Old
06-19-2013, 05:46 PM
  #666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
The JVR - Schenn trade seems to put Ryan's value somewhere around Coburn.

I don't know why we should have to pay significantly more like the addition of a 1st unless we're getting a package that fills various needs.
Exactly and Luca Sbisa will not be the flyers saving grace! He's a downgrade from Coburn (on an already questionable defense)

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Old
06-19-2013, 05:50 PM
  #667
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
The JVR - Schenn trade seems to put Ryan's value somewhere around Coburn.

I don't know why we should have to pay significantly more like the addition of a 1st unless we're getting a package that fills various needs.
Ryan is a 4 time 30+ goal scorer at 26 (assuming he would get moved this summer) compared to JVR who had 1 20+ goal season at age 23. Proven > potential.

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06-19-2013, 06:01 PM
  #668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Ryan is a 4 time 30+ goal scorer at 26 (assuming he would get moved this summer) compared to JVR who had 1 20+ goal season at age 23. Proven > potential.
Coburn is more proven compared to Schenn's "potential" at the time of the trade as well.

I'm not saying the JVR -- Schenn deal is a perfect comparison for a Ryan -- Coburn deal, but it's very similar; far too similar to ignore.

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Old
06-19-2013, 06:12 PM
  #669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Coburn is more proven compared to Schenn's "potential" at the time of the trade as well.

I'm not saying the JVR -- Schenn deal is a perfect comparison for a Ryan -- Coburn deal, but it's very similar; far too similar to ignore.
No it's not though, Ryan is going to cost you a good price and for a good reason. He's a proven 30+ goal scorer entering his prime in a league where scoring is down, they don't grow on trees.

The JVR/Schenn trade was two young former highly drafted players who were struggling and needed a change of scenery on teams that had a surplus at their positions.

Anaheim could get far better of a return than Coburn + Read and whatever else spare parts you want to include in there. The 11th pick would be the only really enticing thing the Flyers have if Schenn and Couturier are off the table. Anaheim doesn't really have to trade Ryan right now too so it's not like there's a real leverage on our side.

That's why I rather just pass on Ryan but Homer's an idiot will probably go down that road and come out on the bad end of it just so he could finally have a hometown kid in a Flyers uniform.


Last edited by LegionOfDoom91: 06-19-2013 at 06:19 PM.
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Old
06-19-2013, 06:23 PM
  #670
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
No it's not though, Ryan is going to cost you a good price and for a good reason. He's a proven 30+ goal scorer entering his prime in a league where scoring is down, they don't grow on trees.

The JVR/Schenn trade was two young former highly drafted players who were struggling and needed a change of scenery on teams that had a surplus at their positions.

Anaheim could get far better of a return than Coburn + Read and whatever else spare parts you want to include in there. The 11th pick would be the only really enticing thing the Flyers have if Schenn and Couturier are off the table. Anaheim doesn't really have to trade Ryan right now too so it's not like there's a real leverage on our side.

That's why I rather just pass on Ryan but Homer's an idiot will probably go down that road and come out on the bad end of it just so he could finally have a hometown kid in a Flyers uniform.
Do people not realize that Coburn was actually really good before this season?

He's a real partner for Fowler as well. He could help out the Anaheim defense immensely, kill PKs, and log heavy minutes.

He's a #2-3 defenseman.

Ryan is a top line 50-65 point winger.

They're pretty much the same tier talent-wise.

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Old
06-19-2013, 06:32 PM
  #671
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You're overrating Coburn and underrating Ryan by saying they're equal talents.

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Old
06-19-2013, 06:36 PM
  #672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
You're overrating Coburn and underrating Ryan by saying they're equal talents.
What if I say that Schenn and vanRiemsdyk are equal talents?

Ryan is one of those players that is overrated HFBoards-wide. Coburn is one of those players that is underrated HFBoards-wide.

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Old
06-19-2013, 06:39 PM
  #673
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Ryan is an easy bet for 30 goals, but is that really that special?

Hartnell is a decent shot at 30 goals. If we pick up Ryder that's another decent shot at 30 goals. Can someone make a case for Ryan being a special piece worth giving up two potentially key pieces of our D for the future?

Ryan comes with his faults, which I'm okay with. All goal scorers have their faults. That's not what I'm worried about. It just seems stupid to give up what it would take to get him when there really is nothing that makes him a special hockey player.

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Old
06-19-2013, 06:47 PM
  #674
LegionOfDoom91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
What if I say that Schenn and vanRiemsdyk are equal talents?

Ryan is one of those players that is overrated HFBoards-wide. Coburn is one of those players that is underrated HFBoards-wide.
They're not, JVR is the better player but I still don't mind that trade. We needed defense and I don't see how that trade has really anything to do with this.

If you really think that they're equal or close to, I don't know what to tell you. I don't think you'll find many people that agree with you on that.

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06-19-2013, 06:48 PM
  #675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Ryan is an easy bet for 30 goals, but is that really that special?
Yes. I don't have the time to look for the post or do the research again, but in a prior thread about Ryan (or may have been JvR) I did some research. In his first four years, only like four other players scored 30 goals each of those years. Those four players were some of the best in the league. Ryan was in his first four seasons. I'm not saying that Ryan is in the same category as those players, but that is certainly something special.

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