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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 12.0

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Old
06-19-2013, 06:45 PM
  #126
Marc the Habs Fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
Of anyone in this draft that may have the chance to be a Lucic-type destructive force (on the body & the scoresheet), Mike McCarron may be the man to do it...if his hands continue to progress steadily and he gets better with his balance, he's gonna be an absolute beast...hence why I want him at #34 or #36!
He's not nearly the fighter Lucic is though.

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06-19-2013, 06:53 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
He's not nearly the fighter Lucic is though.
In fact he's no fighter at all. Unless you think you can turn him into one? Though that rarely works...

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06-19-2013, 06:56 PM
  #128
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I think our 34th pick will be one of the defensemen ranked in the late 1st to early 2nd.

McCoshen, Hagg, Santini, Mueller, Thompson or Bowey.

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06-19-2013, 07:00 PM
  #129
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I hoping for Bowey. I think he has the most upside of any of the guys you listed. He's raw, but the sky's really the limit for this kid.

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06-19-2013, 07:11 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
In fact he's no fighter at all. Unless you think you can turn him into one? Though that rarely works...
I think we should at least give him a chance to scrap before we call him a non-fighter. There was grand total of TEN fights between the entire USNTDP U-18 team. McCarron had two of them.

Plus it appears that if you fight in the USHL, not only do you get a 5 minute major, but a 10 minute misconduct as well. There is a game ejection penalty if you remove your helmet, but it doesn't seem to be enforced.

However, the only video of him fighting was not pretty at all but it was against a very, very good fighter in DeVito.

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06-19-2013, 07:13 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
He's not nearly the fighter Lucic is though.
We don't need a fighter, we need a people-crusher and a goalie-screener...say hello to him...

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06-19-2013, 07:29 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
We don't need a fighter, we need a people-crusher and a goalie-screener...say hello to him...
Yes, I was just trying to temper the expectation that he'll be Lucic 2.0 in every facet.

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06-19-2013, 07:36 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by That View Post
I think we should at least give him a chance to scrap before we call him a non-fighter. There was grand total of TEN fights between the entire USNTDP U-18 team. McCarron had two of them.

Plus it appears that if you fight in the USHL, not only do you get a 5 minute major, but a 10 minute misconduct as well. There is a game ejection penalty if you remove your helmet, but it doesn't seem to be enforced.

However, the only video of him fighting was not pretty at all but it was against a very, very good fighter in DeVito.
Jimmy DeVito is listed at 5'10" 165lbs on hockeydb.

There's alot more to fighting in hockey than just being big. Since he hasn't grown up doing it, I think if you're a team, you assume he can't/won't become any sort of scraper. If he does, bonus, but you can't look at him as any sort of fighter when drafting him. Lucic he is not.

Comparing McCarron to Lucic, when taking fighting into account, is probably my biggest pet peeve of this draft. Maybe, maybe, he can put up production similar to Lucic, but there's a much better chance of that happening than there is of him becoming any sort of heavyweight. And that's not a bad thing, just view him for what he is, not some Lucic clone which he clearly isn't.

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06-19-2013, 07:42 PM
  #134
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I guess hoping for us to draft a lucic is kind of a pipe dream he really is one of a kind....even a guy like simmonds or a stewart who can put up the same points or even more is still not the brute that lucic is.....tom wilson in washington has the potential to get there...same size and everything...i'd like bergy to go after him but caps would never give him up

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06-19-2013, 08:02 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
"OilersNow ‏@OilersNow 4m

Mike Chambers says Sakic called the Denver Post to say the Avs aren't drafting Jones #1."

If true, this pretty much seals it....
That confirms it's some kind of ploy. Nobody calls the media to tell them who they will draft...sounds like fluff.

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06-19-2013, 08:03 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
There are a few guys who could qualify under that statement depending on what you consider a power forward. Including everyone that could be called one, I'd rank them:

1. MacKinnon,
2. Barkov,
3. Nichushkin,
4. Horvat,
5. Lazar,
6. Zykov,
7. Rychel,
8. Erne,
9. Dickinson,
10. McCarron,
HM: De La Rose.
MacKinnon is below average size, that's like saying Plekanec is a power forward.

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06-19-2013, 08:13 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Jimmy DeVito is listed at 5'10" 165lbs on hockeydb.

There's alot more to fighting in hockey than just being big. Since he hasn't grown up doing it, I think if you're a team, you assume he can't/won't become any sort of scraper. If he does, bonus, but you can't look at him as any sort of fighter when drafting him. Lucic he is not.

Comparing McCarron to Lucic, when taking fighting into account, is probably my biggest pet peeve of this draft. Maybe, maybe, he can put up production similar to Lucic, but there's a much better chance of that happening than there is of him becoming any sort of heavyweight. And that's not a bad thing, just view him for what he is, not some Lucic clone which he clearly isn't.
Oh I agree with everything you're saying. You can't teach the level of meanness that Lucic has. Either you have that side to you, or you don't. I haven't seen it from McCarron, but I have barely watched him.

What I'm saying is that I think it's unfair to judge his fighting ability as he hasn't really had the chance to. Even if he wanted to fight all comers it simply wouldn't be feasible as it's unfair to his team due to the extra penalty minutes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingofdrouin View Post
I guess hoping for us to draft a lucic is kind of a pipe dream he really is one of a kind....even a guy like simmonds or a stewart who can put up the same points or even more is still not the brute that lucic is.....tom wilson in washington has the potential to get there...same size and everything...i'd like bergy to go after him but caps would never give him up
Nitpicking, but it's a pet peeve of mine. Wilson is not even close to Lucic in the fighting department. Rarely does he take on heavyweights in the OHL and when he does he loses. His most notable wins have come against two non-fighters in Stu Percy and Mitchell Fitzmorris.

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06-19-2013, 08:18 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by That View Post
Nitpicking, but it's a pet peeve of mine. Wilson is not even close to Lucic in the fighting department. Rarely does he take on heavyweights in the OHL and when he does he loses. His most notable wins have come against two non-fighters in Stu Percy and Mitchell Fitzmorris.
On the other hand, Wilson is a much better hockey player than Lucic at the same age. I mocked the Wilson pick at the time, since like Biggs the year before I thought it was a desperate attempt to improve toughness with so many good players left on the board, but Wilson has taken some serious steps forward since then. If we can get a player like Wilson in this draft I'll be thrilled.

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Old
06-19-2013, 08:40 PM
  #139
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Like somebody said before....the Lucic obsession needs to stop. There's actually 1 Lucic in the league! 1 big guy, one of the best in fighting and a guy that can actually be a top 6 player. You will find a Lucic by total luck. Of course, you wil never develop a Lucic in a 5'8'' kid...but even going with the bigger ones will not help. You don't need Lucic. You need top 6 guys that can take care of themselves. And the day you want to serve a correction to Lucic, you send your goon against him. But you don't find those guys in the top 2 rounds.

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06-19-2013, 08:53 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
MacKinnon is below average size, that's like saying Plekanec is a power forward.
Size defines the style of play ?

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06-19-2013, 09:08 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
MacKinnon is below average size, that's like saying Plekanec is a power forward.
Mac is 6ft and a half with a solid frame that can still fill out and add a ton of strength. He has the tools to play a power game at that height.

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06-19-2013, 09:10 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
MacKinnon is below average size, that's like saying Plekanec is a power forward.
Mackinnon is strong as an ox and uses his body really well and plays physical.... I'm sure you know that...

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06-19-2013, 09:11 PM
  #143
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I wonder if on the Bruins board they are looking for a Subban clone?

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Old
06-19-2013, 09:15 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Vasculio View Post
Size defines the style of play ?
By definition a power forward can't be a small forward. Plus, if Mackinnon tries to play that style in the pros he'll spend more time hurt than healthy. Crosby was similar and same size and nobody calls him a power forward.

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06-19-2013, 09:15 PM
  #145
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I wonder if on the Bruins board they are looking for a Subban clone?
Well they have it...he's called Torey Krug....

Actually, they don't really have to do it with maybe 2 Cups in 3 years. They don't need to look for recipes...they already have it. But at some point, Boston will always need to have a much better powerplay than they used to have in the past years....Can't imagine how good they'll be if they add their ES success with a great powerplay....

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Old
06-19-2013, 09:16 PM
  #146
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Mackinnon is strong as an ox and uses his body really well and plays physical.... I'm sure you know that...
With small/young junior d-men, he won't do that to 220lbs NHL defensemen...he's strong FOR HIS SIZE but not compared to guys like Bernier Latendresse Jacques at the same age.

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06-19-2013, 09:20 PM
  #147
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For whoever cares, though I know that most if not everybody will be on TSN......RDS will show the first 2 rounds, and will shift the rest to RDS Info.

Seems that Stéphane Leroux will do more commentary than he usually does as while being the only guy who knows somewhat the junior prospects, RDS has that brillant idea to only send him to do interviews. Seems that he will do both this year. Not sure how they'll manage that but we will see.

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06-19-2013, 09:22 PM
  #148
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There's lots of talk about size/toughness and also about drafting the "best player available".

In judging prospects how do you guys rank the skills when evaluating players? Also what skills would you look at and what do you think the terms include?

example:
1. Skating (sub categories could be accelaration, stride, agility, foot speed)
2. Hockey IQ or sense (positioning, vision, anticipation, reading the play)
3. Puck skills (shot, passing, face-offs, playmaking, sniping)
4. Character (aggressiveness, 2 way game, respect, attitude, compete level)
5. Size (height, weight, projected growth)
6. Work ethic (desire, ability to follow routines, how well do they take instruction)

This is all off the top of my head......What would you add/alter? how would you rank personally the importance of these aspects.

I've been reading this thread for the past few months and love some of the comments and posters perspectives and think this draft could be a lot of fun but I'm nervous about drafting just for size. Especially if these players are a few years away.

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06-19-2013, 09:23 PM
  #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingofdrouin View Post
i see..let me rephrase that.....who is the closest comparable to milan lucic
If you're going through a draft looking for the next Lucic, you'll likely fail 9.5 times out of 10. Lucic is a rare breed and one that does not show up often in drafts. When they do, 29 other teams are salivating at the idea of drafting him.

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06-19-2013, 09:25 PM
  #150
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Especially if these players are a few years away.
I see this argument every now and then. I think it's baseless. Regardless of when these players make it, size is always going to be an asset. Now, tomorrow, next season, in 3 years and as long as hockey is played.

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