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Flyers sign Mark Streit to a multi-year deal [4 yrs, $21m; $5.25 AAV] (post #1)

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Old
06-18-2013, 09:50 PM
  #851
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To quote that one annoying billboard song:

I. DONT. CARE. I love it. I. DONT. CARE. I love it.

You're on a different road, I'm in the Milky Way
You want me down on earth, but I am up in space
(etc.)

I know I'm in a minority here... but we'll see.

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06-18-2013, 09:52 PM
  #852
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Originally Posted by Scotty Pucks View Post
To quote that one annoying billboard song:

I. DONT. CARE. I love it. I. DONT. CARE. I love it.

You're on a different road, I'm in the Milky Way
You want me down on earth, but I am up in space
(etc.)

I know I'm in a minority here... but we'll see.
Isn't that the Bryzgalov theme song?

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06-18-2013, 10:13 PM
  #853
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
He costs too much to simply be depth though. That's 4 mil that could be used differently.
Gus is the depth at least to start the season. Let Mez play to build up his value besides when he is healthy he is their 2nd best d man. Someone will get banged up but best case everyone is healthy and Gus is a 7th. Mez and Kimmo are done after this season so his time will come.

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06-18-2013, 10:25 PM
  #854
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Originally Posted by rjmkrm View Post
Great presentation of stats. Ridiculous analysis of Streit. His value lies in the PP. He is now a 3rd pair D Man at even strength. For goodness sakes - look at his plus/minus!!

He has lost a a step, has virtually no front of net presence and was never physical. This contract is going to a disaster as early as the second part of next yr
We don't really need a front of net presence or a really physical defender. We need somebody who can help with our system of high-paced offense and actually get the puck into the offensive zone for extended periods of time. We need a defender who can feed Giroux, Voracek and our offensive weapons and also convert on the opportunities that they create. Enter, Mark Streit.

A big issue I have with looking at Streit's season in 2012-13 is that he never had a steady partner. Visnovsky-Hickey and MacDonald-Hamonic were together all year but Streit was paired up with the likes of Matt Carkner, Brian Strait, Joe Finley and Radek Martinek all at different points - that screams 3rd pairing defender but his minutes don't at all. Streit saw over 17 minutes a game 5v5 (less than MacDonald and Hamonic and about the same as Visnovsky) and Islanders were pretty good 5v5 on offense, and Mark Streit was always used to generate offense as spent the majority of his shifts with Tavares and Moulson. Consider the same to happen with Giroux and Voracek.

Yes, Streit is a no.1 powerplay guy. Saw huge PP minutes and had a decent amount of PP points. He'll likely be used heavily on the PP here too, but I doubt he sees any PK time. So, Streit's value lies 5v5 and on the PP in an offensive role. This helps the team as some pressure is taken off Timonen and gives him the chance to see more 5v5 time which is particularly why I like the acquisition of Streit. Use Timonen more as a two-way guy and hopefully he stays intact throughout the season. I think our defense is better than the Islanders and if Streit is given a partner like Luke Schenn or Coburn I think he'll be solid. +/- is a dumb stat anyway, especially when the Islanders were one of the worst goaltending teams in the league too, tied with us.

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Old
06-18-2013, 10:38 PM
  #855
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Originally Posted by ahthorne View Post
We don't really need a front of net presence or a really physical defender. We need somebody who can help with our system of high-paced offense and actually get the puck into the offensive zone for extended periods of time. We need a defender who can feed Giroux, Voracek and our offensive weapons and also convert on the opportunities that they create. Enter, Mark Streit.

A big issue I have with looking at Streit's season in 2012-13 is that he never had a steady partner. Visnovsky-Hickey and MacDonald-Hamonic were together all year but Streit was paired up with the likes of Matt Carkner, Brian Strait, Joe Finley and Radek Martinek all at different points - that screams 3rd pairing defender but his minutes don't at all. Streit saw over 17 minutes a game 5v5 (less than MacDonald and Hamonic and about the same as Visnovsky) and Islanders were pretty good 5v5 on offense, and Mark Streit was always used to generate offense as spent the majority of his shifts with Tavares and Moulson. Consider the same to happen with Giroux and Voracek.

Yes, Streit is a no.1 powerplay guy. Saw huge PP minutes and had a decent amount of PP points. He'll likely be used heavily on the PP here too, but I doubt he sees any PK time. So, Streit's value lies 5v5 and on the PP in an offensive role. This helps the team as some pressure is taken off Timonen and gives him the chance to see more 5v5 time which is particularly why I like the acquisition of Streit. Use Timonen more as a two-way guy and hopefully he stays intact throughout the season. I think our defense is better than the Islanders and if Streit is given a partner like Luke Schenn or Coburn I think he'll be solid. +/- is a dumb stat anyway, especially when the Islanders were one of the worst goaltending teams in the league too, tied with us.
He wore down significantly by the end of he year and was consistently beaten to the spot by the Pens forwards in the playoffs. He simply hasnt been the same player since being injured two years ago.

You are right about him not having a steady partner, but when you are SUPPOSED to be a top 4 d man that shouldnt be an excuse for him playing as poorly as he did in his own end.

You will like him on the PP and when he has the opp to make the first pass out of the zone. The problem is that these opps are becoming fewer and fewer as he is now slower to the puck and is moved of it fairly easily

His best yr was the first his of his five year deal with the Isles. Take out the yr he missed because of injury and his play steadily declined over the other 3 yrs.

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06-18-2013, 11:28 PM
  #856
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjmkrm View Post
He wore down significantly by the end of he year and was consistently beaten to the spot by the Pens forwards in the playoffs. He simply hasnt been the same player since being injured two years ago.

You are right about him not having a steady partner, but when you are SUPPOSED to be a top 4 d man that shouldnt be an excuse for him playing as poorly as he did in his own end.

You will like him on the PP and when he has the opp to make the first pass out of the zone. The problem is that these opps are becoming fewer and fewer as he is now slower to the puck and is moved of it fairly easily

His best yr was the first his of his five year deal with the Isles. Take out the yr he missed because of injury and his play steadily declined over the other 3 yrs.
Wasn't he injured all season?

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06-19-2013, 12:13 AM
  #857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjmkrm View Post
He wore down significantly by the end of he year and was consistently beaten to the spot by the Pens forwards in the playoffs. He simply hasnt been the same player since being injured two years ago.

You are right about him not having a steady partner, but when you are SUPPOSED to be a top 4 d man that shouldnt be an excuse for him playing as poorly as he did in his own end.

You will like him on the PP and when he has the opp to make the first pass out of the zone. The problem is that these opps are becoming fewer and fewer as he is now slower to the puck and is moved of it fairly easily

His best yr was the first his of his five year deal with the Isles. Take out the yr he missed because of injury and his play steadily declined over the other 3 yrs.
What I'm trying to say is that I am not too worried about his play in his own zone as long as he has a strong partner which I think we have plenty - likely Coburn or Schenn who both can be excellent when on their game. Anything would be an improvement over Gervais, Foster and Meszaros last season. Gervais was 4th in total ice time for us last season. 4th! That's messed up.

Plus, like Beef above me has said, Streit was nursing an injury for a while. Although that in itself is cause for concern...

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06-19-2013, 08:10 AM
  #858
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Originally Posted by ahthorne View Post
What I'm trying to say is that I am not too worried about his play in his own zone as long as he has a strong partner which I think we have plenty - likely Coburn or Schenn who both can be excellent when on their game. Anything would be an improvement over Gervais, Foster and Meszaros last season. Gervais was 4th in total ice time for us last season. 4th! That's messed up.

Plus, like Beef above me has said, Streit was nursing an injury for a while. Although that in itself is cause for concern...
Lies Flyers fans tell themselves ...
1) He'll be much better this year. He was injured last season.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. It just adds to the incredulity that, not only does Paul Holmgren sign a 35+ player to a 4-year, $5.25/year contract, but it's a player who was injured for the majority of the previous season. Now, maybe the Flyers FO were diligent and asked for a physician report and/or had Streit checked out by their own crack staff of top medical experts (I don't think I need the , but just in case), in which case I publicly and unreservedly apologize for second-guessing Holmgren. But don't we think that this little detail may have contributed to getting a better deal than what has been signed?

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Old
06-19-2013, 01:04 PM
  #859
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Streit would get paid no matter where he went, probably even more than $5.25mil had a bidding war started. $6mil, easily, and that's scary. I don't approve of the contract at all or the fact that they signed a rather injury prone guy to a 35+ contract for four years while they're still taking the hit on their last 35+ contract as he'll likely never play again. Pronger is the exact reason why you don't do 35+ contracts with that kind of money and term. Thankfully Streit's is up before he's 40...

Regardless of contract, I think Streit will be effective. We'll see how it all develops.

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06-19-2013, 01:07 PM
  #860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahthorne View Post

Plus, like Beef above me has said, Streit was nursing an injury for a while. Although that in itself is cause for concern...
Yeah, indeed. While an injury would explain a lot...an injury on a 35+ player is a red flag. Indicates the guy could be breaking down.

The good news: He was just injured!

The bad news: Oh ****, he was injured.

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06-19-2013, 01:11 PM
  #861
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It really depends on the injury and how it was sustained.

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06-19-2013, 01:30 PM
  #862
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Leg injury could happen to anyone. I keep holding on to the fact that he apparently is a fitness freak ala Jagr and he has low NHL miles on his body, so he should be able to play to 40.

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06-19-2013, 01:33 PM
  #863
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Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16 View Post
Leg injury could happen to anyone. I keep holding on to the fact that he apparently is a fitness freak ala Jagr and he has low NHL miles on his body, so he should be able to play to 40.
Well maybe so....he would have to have the Timonen threshold of pain vs Andrew Bynum threshold...

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06-19-2013, 01:52 PM
  #864
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Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16 View Post
Leg injury could happen to anyone. I keep holding on to the fact that he apparently is a fitness freak ala Jagr and he has low NHL miles on his body, so he should be able to play to 40.
Still no guarantee. Even being a fitness nut or a gym rat, you can break yourself down that way. Players breakdown differently. Being 35+ -- it's hard on athletes.

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06-19-2013, 04:56 PM
  #865
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
I was never strongly against Couts for Yandle straight up, but admittedly I went back and forth on it. Signing Streit (even to this contract) is a much, much better scenario.

Seriously, consider our options:

1) Do nothing. Wait for Gostisbehere and Risto/Morrissey/Morin/etc. to develop. Waste away the next couple seasons while we wait for this.

2) Fix the D problem for the long term through trade (ie, Yandle). This would cost Couturier or Schenn at the minimum.

3) Fix the D problem for the short term through trade. This would cost Read or Laughton at the minimum.

4) Fix the D problem for the short term through UFA. This costs nothing but cap space which we have.


Which one of those looks to be the best? Yeah, it's not exactly close.
This/ Thread

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06-20-2013, 12:32 AM
  #866
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Does anyone honestly believe we have a strong chance at the Cup in 2013-2014 as this roster is currently constituted?

If you answer yes, then you're delusional.

If you answer no, then what the heck is the point of signing Mark Streit? Odds are by the time you're ready to seriously contend for a championship, he'll be nothing but a cap anchor, or at the very least we will be in a situation where we could've better spent that money.

I like playoff hockey as much as the next guy here, but I think it's been proven time and time again now by Holmgren that these expensive short-term band-aids only exacerbate our problems over the long-term. Unless you're a serious contender (ie. you made the playoffs the prior season), you have no business signing Mark Streit to this type of deal.

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06-20-2013, 12:39 AM
  #867
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Gotta remember. From the point of view of Homer, Snider, the team and its investors, he looks at it that the team needed some help on defense. Other than people reading just what Islander fans are saying, Streit really isnt a bad defender? Long and high contract? Yes. But he will help out this team NOW which is what management ALWAYS wants. It's easy for people to complain we dont look to the future but from a financial standpoint, the future is always now for the Flyers. Love it or hate it, its how the Flyers work and always will.
And this is EXACTLY why we will NEVER win a championship until Snider croaks and the organizational philosophy changes.

How many mediocre veterans have to be overpaid, how many long term needs have to be ignored, how many draft picks have to be traded, how many future star players (like Vezina winners) need to be sold down the river for a song before some of you "fans" finally realize how horribly run this franchise is?!?

It's great that they want to succeed (99.999% of sports franchises do). It's great that they're willing to spend to the ends of the earth in order to succeed, but in today's NHL with a salary cap, that means NOTHING if the money isn't spent efficiently. And the Flyers are one of the worst franchises in the league at doing that. The fans deserve better.

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06-20-2013, 12:52 AM
  #868
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
Does anyone honestly believe we have a strong chance at the Cup in 2013-2014 as this roster is currently constituted?

If you answer yes, then you're delusional.

If you answer no, then what the heck is the point of signing Mark Streit? Odds are by the time you're ready to seriously contend for a championship, he'll be nothing but a cap anchor, or at the very least we will be in a situation where we could've better spent that money.

I like playoff hockey as much as the next guy here, but I think it's been proven time and time again now by Holmgren that these expensive short-term band-aids only exacerbate our problems over the long-term. Unless you're a serious contender (ie. you made the playoffs the prior season), you have no business signing Mark Streit to this type of deal.
Well I'm not crazy about the signing (mainly the length of the deal) but I don't think it's a bad as some are making it out to be (especially if it prevents Schenn & Couturier from being moved). I don't think we're in cup contention, playoffs maybe but probably just making the cut if we do so. However you still have to make some moves to be some what competitive. I mean you don't want to be Edmonton and let your young players grow in environment where getting their teeth kicked in every night by opposing teams becomes the norm while you sit there on your hands like Tambelini did all these years. I also don't think you need to be super aggressive like Homer though at the same time.

I would be fine with the Streit signing & trading for Bernier (not really crazy about either move but i can live with them) and calling it a summer. Anything else is totally unwarranted especially the big move and roster shakeup.


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06-20-2013, 01:14 AM
  #869
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Well I'm not crazy about the signing (mainly the length of the deal) but I don't think it's a bad as some are making it out to be (especially if it prevents Schenn & Couturier from being moved). I don't think we're in cup contention, playoffs maybe but probably just making the cut if we do so. However you still have to make some moves to be some what competitive. I mean you don't want to be Edmonton and let your young players grow in environment where getting their teeth kicked in every night by opposing teams becomes the norm while you sit there on your hands like Tambelini did all these years. I also don't think you need to be super aggressive like Homer though at the same time.
I love this post. You hit the nail on the head.

All these people criticizing the deal because we're not ready to contend are the delusional ones. I know we won't be winning the Cup in the next couple years, but I can guarantee you we'll be in a much better position to succeed in the future if Couturier, Schenn, Laughton, etc. are developed in a winning environment.

For the sake of those young players, I want some "win now" players in the lineup. I just don't understand how people expect a better outcome by bottom feeding for a few years. Making the playoffs is invaluable experience for these guys. It's not like our lineup is filled with "band-aid" players. Really the only short-term band-aid player is Streit...

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06-20-2013, 06:57 AM
  #870
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I love this post. You hit the nail on the head.

All these people criticizing the deal because we're not ready to contend are the delusional ones. I know we won't be winning the Cup in the next couple years, but I can guarantee you we'll be in a much better position to succeed in the future if Couturier, Schenn, Laughton, etc. are developed in a winning environment.

For the sake of those young players, I want some "win now" players in the lineup. I just don't understand how people expect a better outcome by bottom feeding for a few years. Making the playoffs is invaluable experience for these guys. It's not like our lineup is filled with "band-aid" players. Really the only short-term band-aid player is Streit...
Being a bottom feeder worked for Pittsburgh, but it's one of the reasons I don't know how Pittsburgh "fans" can sleep at night.

Had to go there.

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06-20-2013, 07:02 AM
  #871
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
And this is EXACTLY why we will NEVER win a championship until Snider croaks and the organizational philosophy changes.

How many mediocre veterans have to be overpaid, how many long term needs have to be ignored, how many draft picks have to be traded, how many future star players (like Vezina winners) need to be sold down the river for a song before some of you "fans" finally realize how horribly run this franchise is?!?

It's great that they want to succeed (99.999% of sports franchises do). It's great that they're willing to spend to the ends of the earth in order to succeed, but in today's NHL with a salary cap, that means NOTHING if the money isn't spent efficiently. And the Flyers are one of the worst franchises in the league at doing that. The fans deserve better.
Yes, and that's why we just missed the playoffs for the second time in how many years? Sorry, but you're wrong here, the Flyers are lousy at cap management but other than that are one of the best run franchises.

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06-20-2013, 07:04 AM
  #872
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
I love this post. You hit the nail on the head.

All these people criticizing the deal because we're not ready to contend are the delusional ones. I know we won't be winning the Cup in the next couple years, but I can guarantee you we'll be in a much better position to succeed in the future if Couturier, Schenn, Laughton, etc. are developed in a winning environment.

For the sake of those young players, I want some "win now" players in the lineup. I just don't understand how people expect a better outcome by bottom feeding for a few years. Making the playoffs is invaluable experience for these guys. It's not like our lineup is filled with "band-aid" players. Really the only short-term band-aid player is Streit...
Exactly. Some people think management should just sit and wait for our young players to develop and not worry about winning games. This isn't the AHL.

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06-20-2013, 07:07 AM
  #873
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Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
Does anyone honestly believe we have a strong chance at the Cup in 2013-2014 as this roster is currently constituted?

If you answer yes, then you're delusional.

If you answer no, then what the heck is the point of signing Mark Streit? Odds are by the time you're ready to seriously contend for a championship, he'll be nothing but a cap anchor, or at the very least we will be in a situation where we could've better spent that money.

I like playoff hockey as much as the next guy here, but I think it's been proven time and time again now by Holmgren that these expensive short-term band-aids only exacerbate our problems over the long-term. Unless you're a serious contender (ie. you made the playoffs the prior season), you have no business signing Mark Streit to this type of deal.
This isn't the NBA. Just make it to the dance and luck into a hot goalie and anything can happen.

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06-20-2013, 07:09 AM
  #874
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
And this is EXACTLY why we will NEVER win a championship until Snider croaks and the organizational philosophy changes.

How many mediocre veterans have to be overpaid, how many long term needs have to be ignored, how many draft picks have to be traded, how many future star players (like Vezina winners) need to be sold down the river for a song before some of you "fans" finally realize how horribly run this franchise is?!?

It's great that they want to succeed (99.999% of sports franchises do). It's great that they're willing to spend to the ends of the earth in order to succeed, but in today's NHL with a salary cap, that means NOTHING if the money isn't spent efficiently. And the Flyers are one of the worst franchises in the league at doing that. The fans deserve better.


What is going to change when Snider steps down? I asked this before in the Snider thread and it got no response for some weird reason, but outside of the Bryz situation, what has Snider done that has had a negative impact on this team? What will be done in the future by whomever replaces Snider?

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06-20-2013, 07:19 AM
  #875
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post


What is going to change when Snider steps down? I asked this before in the Snider thread and it got no response for some weird reason, but outside of the Bryz situation, what has Snider done that has had a negative impact on this team? What will be done in the future by whomever replaces Snider?
Comcast owns the Flyers. What is the track record of teams that are owned by corporations? Snider's greatest flaw is a win now attitude. It could be worse for the fans.

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