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2013 NHL Draft Talk Part V: Flyers own the 11th overall pick

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Old
06-20-2013, 06:07 AM
  #601
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
If this is the case they aren't very bright. There are few NHL ready prospects at pick 11. In fact if you look at all of the drafts since 2000 only one 11th overall pick played a game in the NHL the season after he was drafted. That was Filip Forsberg who played in the last 5 games for the Preds last season.

There's really no reason to believe whoever we pick @ 11 should be in the NHL next season except pure desperation.
I agree it isn't very bright, which is why I called it stupid. But the fact remains that's how fans react.

Quote:
I'm also not just talking about how the fans react. The organization has been known to give up on players early and see them go on and have success elsewhere.
Every organization trades young players, I don't think the Flyers are any different than other NHL teams in that regard. What players have they given up on where their hands weren't forced? Bob (who I have argued was not a lack of patience ad nauseum and don't plan on getting into that again) and JvR (a player they traded to improve a position of need, for a player that was equally as young and at the same point in his career)?

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06-20-2013, 07:40 AM
  #602
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
That's expecting an awful lot of Gustafson and gostisbehere
3rd pairing minutes in 4 years is expecting a lot from Ghost? Lol. But yeah Gustaffson will never be a top 2 Dman.

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06-20-2013, 09:05 AM
  #603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
I'd think that if a more advanced / mature defender like Ristolainen would probably stay in the minors, and then would have a decent chance at training camp 2014-15 to make the team. The Flyers, though, are not averse to rewarding a rookie for a spectacular training camp (eg, Couturier). So I wouldn't be surprised -- not happy, but not surprised -- if Ristolainen got the max number of games without starting his major-league clock.

I like that Ristolainen could go to the Phantoms and considerably up the defensive quality.

Yes, I'm going on about only one of several potential draft options. Ristolainen is my not-terribly-original gut feeling.

EDIT: I just saw your point, HC, about the advantage of Ristolainen staying in SM-Liiga. I wouldn't be averse to this, but I'm thinking about how his presence makes the Phantoms roster better.
I actually forgot he would be AHL eligible next season. I think the AHL would be just as good for his development so that would also be preferred to letting him play in the NHL next season, but I'd rather delay his ELC so I think leaving him in the SM-Liiga benefits the Flyers more in the long term.

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06-20-2013, 09:06 AM
  #604
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Originally Posted by SchennSational1022 View Post
3rd pairing minutes in 4 years is expecting a lot from Ghost? Lol. But yeah Gustaffson will never be a top 2 Dman.
Well first of all, it's assuming he's even going to be an NHL player.

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06-20-2013, 09:12 AM
  #605
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
I actually forgot he would be AHL eligible next season. I think the AHL would be just as good for his development so that would also be preferred to letting him play in the NHL next season, but I'd rather delay his ELC so I think leaving him in the SM-Liiga benefits the Flyers more in the long term.
Sorry to disagree but if the Flyers were to draft Ristolainen, the sooner that he got to play on the smaller NA ice shields and off of the oversized Euro rinks, the better for his development.

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06-20-2013, 09:16 AM
  #606
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If they draft Ristolianen he should be on the Phantoms until half the Flyers defensemen are injured again, when he can be called up.

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06-20-2013, 09:46 AM
  #607
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
If they draft Ristolianen he should be on the Phantoms until half the Flyers defensemen are injured again, when he can be called up.
Why do I feel like homer will trade 11th + roster player for a top-3 pick and we draft Jones/Barkov and everyone is happy..

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06-20-2013, 10:15 AM
  #608
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Originally Posted by Rolex View Post
Sorry to disagree but if the Flyers were to draft Ristolainen, the sooner that he got to play on the smaller NA ice shields and off of the oversized Euro rinks, the better for his development.
I think too much is made over that. Timonen didn't come over until he was like 24 and he was fine.

Edited to add: Karlsson and Ekman-Larsson each remained in Europe the season after they were drafted and each played in the NHL the following season. I think another year over there will be good for him. I'd rather do what works with recent young top end Euro defenseman instead of rushing him.


Last edited by Haute Couturier: 06-20-2013 at 10:39 AM.
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06-20-2013, 11:53 AM
  #609
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
If they draft Ristolianen he should be on the Phantoms until half the Flyers defensemen are injured again, when he can be called up.
So about 20 games into the 2013-14 season?

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06-20-2013, 11:57 AM
  #610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
I think too much is made over that. Timonen didn't come over until he was like 24 and he was fine.

Edited to add: Karlsson and Ekman-Larsson each remained in Europe the season after they were drafted and each played in the NHL the following season. I think another year over there will be good for him. I'd rather do what works with recent young top end Euro defenseman instead of rushing him.
I'd say that a lot would depend on the Flyers' confidence in TPS' (Ristolainen's current club) ability to continue with his development. To use another example, the Flyers would probably be less inclined to get Zadorov to the Phantoms because of the excellent environment in London.

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06-20-2013, 12:19 PM
  #611
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
So about 20 games into the 2013-14 season?
That's probably optimism and not sarcasm With the way the Flyers go on a yearly basis there's usually at least one or more dmen who don't even start the season healthy.

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06-20-2013, 12:34 PM
  #612
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
So about 20 games into the 2013-14 season?
By December or January.

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Old
06-20-2013, 01:50 PM
  #613
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Im not 100% sure that if he played in the ahl it will count as a contract year. Reason i am saying this is due to what detroit did eith tomas tatar. Unless capgeek made a mistake, tatar played two years in the ahl and it didnt count towards his elc. His contract actually slid. If someone could find out why that would be great.

Edit: same thing happened to Sabres, Zemgus Girgensons. I think as a 18&19 yr old in the ahl, he wont count towards his ELC. So technically they can play 5 years in the pros on a 3 yr contract.

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06-20-2013, 01:53 PM
  #614
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His deal would slide if he played in the AHL. Hampus Lindholm played the full year in the AHL, and he still has three years left on his ELC for the Ducks.

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06-20-2013, 02:33 PM
  #615
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^^ Thanks to you both on the clarification on ELCs. That is very helpful to NHL teams when it comes to Euros. It would be nice to see a real talent on the Phantoms.

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06-20-2013, 07:57 PM
  #616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
^^ Thanks to you both on the clarification on ELCs. That is very helpful to NHL teams when it comes to Euros. It would be nice to see a real talent on the Phantoms.
Yep. Hopefully, he would be paired with Manning and get his development back on course.

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06-20-2013, 08:32 PM
  #617
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http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=930015

I found this old thread on here about it. It might help.

If you sign a contract at 18 it could possibly slide two years if you don't play any NHL games in that time.

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06-20-2013, 08:42 PM
  #618
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Tatar and Girgensons both signed a contract at 18 and played in the AHL the following season without playing any NHL games. Tatar played the following season as well without playing an NHL game which pushed back his 3 years to another year.

So if Ristolanien signed at 18 and played in the AHL next year we wouldn't lose a year off his ELC.

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06-20-2013, 10:11 PM
  #619
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Voynov did something similar as well, I believe.

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06-21-2013, 03:54 AM
  #620
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Trade 11 to calgary for 22 and 28.

22 draft Theodore , morrissey, or pulock. at 28 draft Morin.

41 Bowery.

Trade up and draft Jon Diaby.

Coming out of this draft with Bowery, Diaby, morin and Theodore.....so sick.

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06-21-2013, 04:10 AM
  #621
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Rumor has it we are trading the #11 and Coburn for Bobby Ryan.
Why do that?
Where is he going to play we already have Simmonds and Hartnell?
I would be ok trading Coburn and Hartnell for Ryan, but our #11 pick, No.
Not sure if Ducks one of teams Hartnell would ok trade to anyway.

I would rather get a defenseman with #11 by draft or through trading the pick.
Not opposed to trading Coburn if PMD defenseman was available.

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06-21-2013, 05:05 AM
  #622
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
Rumor has it we are trading the #11 and Coburn for Bobby Ryan.
Why do that?
Where is he going to play we already have Simmonds and Hartnell?
I would be ok trading Coburn and Hartnell for Ryan, but our #11 pick, No.
Not sure if Ducks one of teams Hartnell would ok trade to anyway.

I would rather get a defenseman with #11 by draft or through trading the pick.
Not opposed to trading Coburn if PMD defenseman was available.
If you can get bobby ryan for coburn and the 11th you do that. I like a coburn a lot and he could be a big minutes eater for us for the next 8 years but to get a player like ryan is a must.

ryan giroux voracek ----one of the best top lines in the game
hartnell schenn read
simmonds couturier Gagne
Rinaldo Talbot Mcginn

thats a great forward core

Kimmo Schenn
Streit Mez
Gus Grossman

not a great d but a d that has room to improve.

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06-21-2013, 05:34 AM
  #623
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Why do I feel like homer will trade 11th + roster player for a top-3 pick and we draft Jones/Barkov and everyone is happy..
There are rumors out there that Holmgren wants to move up. Not so sure how far he could get though. I don't think any of the Aves, Panthers, or Lightening are moving out of the top 3. Nashville is a interesting spot though.

If the Aves and Florida both take a forward, that leaves the Seth Jones and one of Barkov, Nichuchskin, and or Drouin there at 3. If Tampa takes Nichuchskin, then I think Nashville will take Barkov/Drouin. If however, Tampa takes Barkov/Drouin, I doubt Nashville will take Nichuchskin after the Radolov incident and will be left with Jones or Monahan or Lindholm on the board with a desperate need for a center. Would they then trade the 4th overall for say 11 and Couturier or B. Schenn? I can see Seth Jones dropping all the way to 5. The question is would the Flyers actually trade up for him.

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06-21-2013, 05:45 AM
  #624
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
If you can get bobby ryan for coburn and the 11th you do that. I like a coburn a lot and he could be a big minutes eater for us for the next 8 years but to get a player like ryan is a must.
I feel like Ryan is getting overrated around here.
He certainly isn't that much better than Hartnell to justify trading Coburn in a package.
Ryan right now is a 30-30 guy, that probably would be a little higher on the Flyers, but therefore another winger would get less ice-time and would produce less (Simmonds, Hartnell, Read).

He's going to sign here eventually, so why trade that much of a package to get him?
I believe a really good D-prospect is more important than getting Ryan.

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06-21-2013, 05:48 AM
  #625
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
There are rumors out there that Holmgren wants to move up. Not so sure how far he could get though. I don't think any of the Aves, Panthers, or Lightening are moving out of the top 3. Nashville is a interesting spot though.

If the Aves and Florida both take a forward, that leaves the Seth Jones and one of Barkov, Nichuchskin, and or Drouin there at 3. If Tampa takes Nichuchskin, then I think Nashville will take Barkov/Drouin. If however, Tampa takes Barkov/Drouin, I doubt Nashville will take Nichuchskin after the Radolov incident and will be left with Jones or Monahan or Lindholm on the board with a desperate need for a center. Would they then trade the 4th overall for say 11 and Couturier or B. Schenn? I can see Seth Jones dropping all the way to 5. The question is would the Flyers actually trade up for him.
I can't see Jones dropping out of the top3, but that is an interesting scenario.
Albeit unlikely with 3 out of the top4 prospects being forwards Nashville would really like.
If Colorade doesn't pick Jones I believe Dave Tallon would be more than happy to take him.

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