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Your opinion on re-signing Raffi?

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06-20-2013, 10:49 AM
  #151
FeedingFrenzy
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Originally Posted by The Great 88 View Post
You guys realize that without those last few games with Havlat, Couture would have finished the season with avg second line numbers, right?
horrible statement...If I had picked the right numbers for the lottery i'd be rich..

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06-20-2013, 11:02 AM
  #152
OrrNumber4
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
It's the truth of the matter. That line clicked when Havlat was on it. It didn't click with Wingels. It didn't click with Torres. It didn't click with Pavelski. If you want Marleau and Couture to produce, they need a play-maker on it. Plain and simple. You can make any argument you want but the truth played itself out.
Marleau makes nearly 7 million, and Couture just extended for 6 million. Don't you think players of that paygrade should be effective playing with anyone? They shouldn't have to "need" someone to be effective.

I understand that they may be more effective in certain situations and with certain linemates. But they should be plenty effective otherwise, especially if they have each other. At the very least, they need to be able to produce without linemates who coast upwards of 5 million/year.

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06-20-2013, 11:09 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by FeedingFrenzy View Post
horrible statement...If I had picked the right numbers for the lottery i'd be rich..
Um...what? Another condescending analogy, what does this even mean?

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06-20-2013, 11:11 AM
  #154
wraith985
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Originally Posted by The Great 88 View Post
Um...what? Another condescending analogy, what does this even mean?
He's saying that if you pick the right set of games, you can make just about any point. I think.

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06-20-2013, 11:17 AM
  #155
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That doesn't make any sense, Havlat proved he had chemistry with Couture late in the year, and boosted his nhmbers. What's wrong with that?

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06-20-2013, 12:04 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by The Great 88 View Post
That doesn't make any sense, Havlat proved he had chemistry with Couture late in the year, and boosted his nhmbers. What's wrong with that?
What's wrong with that is that if you cherry pick any small number of games, you can make almost any point. The implication is that the couple of games at the end of the year might not be representative of Havlat's impact on Couture.

I happen to disagree with that, but my reference is the slightly larger body of work they put together in 11-12, where Havlat at one point was PPG setting up Couture (before his freak groin injury, I believe), and helped San Jose's offense substantially once he returned late in the year and into the playoffs (keep in mind that that's a relative term, seeing how bad the offense was generally for the second half of that year). I think that when you combine 11-12 with the games in 12-13, you get a pretty convincing argument that Havlat and Couture are quite good together offensively.

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06-20-2013, 12:52 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by OrrNumber4 View Post
Marleau makes nearly 7 million, and Couture just extended for 6 million. Don't you think players of that paygrade should be effective playing with anyone? They shouldn't have to "need" someone to be effective.

I understand that they may be more effective in certain situations and with certain linemates. But they should be plenty effective otherwise, especially if they have each other. At the very least, they need to be able to produce without linemates who coast upwards of 5 million/year.
Not if that is the line that you expect to go against the other team's best night in and night out like they had been doing to close the season and in the playoffs. You can't have Marleau, Couture, and an obvious weak link type player go against lines like Williams-Kopitar-Brown and expect them to not only shut those guys down but also score at an expectation level of normal 1st line players. That's just not realistic considering their competition.

They would be effective with whichever weak link player you want to throw with them if they are sheltered more but that's going to come at the expense of someone else like Galiardi-Jumbo-Burns.

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06-20-2013, 01:00 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great 88 View Post
That doesn't make any sense, Havlat proved he had chemistry with Couture late in the year, and boosted his nhmbers. What's wrong with that?
You made the mistake of trying to argue that havlat has value. FF doesn't take kindly to that type of offensive language.

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06-20-2013, 01:23 PM
  #159
OrrNumber4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Not if that is the line that you expect to go against the other team's best night in and night out like they had been doing to close the season and in the playoffs. You can't have Marleau, Couture, and an obvious weak link type player go against lines like Williams-Kopitar-Brown and expect them to not only shut those guys down but also score at an expectation level of normal 1st line players. That's just not realistic considering their competition.

They would be effective with whichever weak link player you want to throw with them if they are sheltered more but that's going to come at the expense of someone else like Galiardi-Jumbo-Burns.
Williams, Kopitar, and Brown, in total, make what, 14 million? That is only a little more than Marleau and Couture considering Couture's newest contract. Just as a reference.

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06-20-2013, 01:37 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrrNumber4 View Post
Williams, Kopitar, and Brown, in total, make what, 14 million? That is only a little more than Marleau and Couture considering Couture's newest contract. Just as a reference.
Not really fair because Brown signed that deal as an RFA (he'll need a big extension soon), and Williams is perpetually underrated.

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06-20-2013, 01:44 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by OrrNumber4 View Post
Williams, Kopitar, and Brown, in total, make what, 14 million? That is only a little more than Marleau and Couture considering Couture's newest contract. Just as a reference.
I don't see how their salary is at all relevant to the point. If that were the case, why isn't Thornton taking on the top lines anymore? Why isn't Boyle? The answer is because it's not that simple.

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06-20-2013, 05:40 PM
  #162
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The nicest thing I can say is that he is cheap or that he is better than Burish. I hope the Sharks PK is good next year. Sigh

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06-20-2013, 05:42 PM
  #163
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Nothing wrong with it, Raffi brings the physical presence that the shards need and dont have it. He can also put up numbers as well.

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06-22-2013, 09:11 PM
  #164
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Whether it was him or not, The Sharks needed improvement in the grinders/gnats/get under the opponents skins type of players as those are the players that always seem to come up key in the playoffs.

Heck look at Shaw and Bickell on Chicago and what they have contributed to their playoff run.

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06-22-2013, 09:32 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Not really fair because Brown signed that deal as an RFA (he'll need a big extension soon), and Williams is perpetually underrated.
I fail to see how this is unfair. The Kings have spent their money much smarter than the Sharks have IMO and they got rewarded for it.

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06-22-2013, 09:35 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Audio Outlaw View Post
I fail to see how this is unfair. The Kings have spent their money much smarter than the Sharks have IMO and they got rewarded for it.
Not true at all. They acquired multiple players via UFAgency while we can't acquire any. In addition, they hasn't made the 2nd round in like 5 yrs before they won the cup, which was a lucky year for them. They have not spent their money better than the Sharks.

Winning a cup takes a lot of luck. To really look at whether a team is successful, you have to look long-term. SJ hasn't missed the playoffs since 02-03 while not always spending to the cap. I fail to see how that isn't smart, but you're just going to say this because they won the cup.

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06-22-2013, 09:39 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by tattooedsean View Post
Whether it was him or not, The Sharks needed improvement in the grinders/gnats/get under the opponents skins type of players as those are the players that always seem to come up key in the playoffs.

Heck look at Shaw and Bickell on Chicago and what they have contributed to their playoff run.
The Sharks need improvement in production at their depth lines which this should help with. Those grinders coming up big in the playoffs is more about pure luck than anything else. Bickell and Shaw only had two goals between them last playoffs against Phoenix.

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06-22-2013, 09:53 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by The Great 88 View Post
Not true at all. They acquired multiple players via UFAgency while we can't acquire any. In addition, they hasn't made the 2nd round in like 5 yrs before they won the cup, which was a lucky year for them. They have not spent their money better than the Sharks.

Winning a cup takes a lot of luck. To really look at whether a team is successful, you have to look long-term. SJ hasn't missed the playoffs since 02-03 while not always spending to the cap. I fail to see how that isn't smart, but you're just going to say this because they won the cup.
I do not agree with this philosophy at all. Our cup run has lasted a decade and we still haven't even got a sniff of a SCF. The Kings put together a cup winning team in half of the time. 6 straight series wins. That is much more impressive IMO.

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06-22-2013, 10:20 PM
  #169
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They got multiple top-5 picks, we got none.

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06-23-2013, 12:20 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Audio Outlaw View Post
I do not agree with this philosophy at all. Our cup run has lasted a decade and we still haven't even got a sniff of a SCF. The Kings put together a cup winning team in half of the time. 6 straight series wins. That is much more impressive IMO.
So, the Sharks should have passed up their legitimate chances at the cup to get top 5 picks and hope they panned out and led to a cup

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06-23-2013, 12:23 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by The Great 88 View Post
They got multiple top-5 picks, we got none.
Marleau and Thornton are top 2 picks!

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06-23-2013, 12:44 AM
  #172
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Doug Wilson has never drafted in the top-5. He never tanked.

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06-23-2013, 01:11 AM
  #173
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Originally Posted by The Great 88 View Post
Doug Wilson has never drafted in the top-5. He never tanked.
This. I know you all don't consider LA to be a tanker, but I remember just how horrendous they were in 07-08 (That was the season I went to my first ever game at the Tank, it was against the Kings and I think Eric Ersberg or something). They had three consecutive top-5 picks, which constitutes tanking. I know one busted (Hickey) and they traded the other (B. Schenn) but the fact was that they got them, Doughty turned out to be a Norris-caliber defenseman, and Schenn got them their #2C.

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06-23-2013, 03:15 PM
  #174
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I don't think it'll ever sit real well with me that the teams that were outright sucking right before the salary cap are now the juggernaut teams in the league. The salary cap definitely screwed over responsibly built teams in favor of garbage teams. You'd swear it wasn't a coincidence that those garbage teams were languishing large/original-six markets.

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