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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 12.0

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06-20-2013, 11:02 AM
  #276
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Originally Posted by dreamingofdrouin View Post
really? he's not even on the top 30 from ISS. not disputing he may very well turn out to be an exccellents player and i'd love bergy to take a guy with his size...but i think central scouting has him 17th for NA players don't they? doesnt really seem like a stretch for us to nab him at 25
Ths ISS rankings to hockey fans should be like the bible to Christians; it's there as a guideline, but don't take it too seriously. If you do, you'll look foolish in the end.

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06-20-2013, 11:06 AM
  #277
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Originally Posted by MonkeyBusiness View Post
The ISS lists mean nothing, for most of the year they didn't have Domi in the top 30. IIRC last year they had Grigorenko above Yakupov for most of the year.
Yah i'm seeing that everybody has him all over the place....central scouting has him at 23...craig button has him 12...i really don't know who's competent and who's not.

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06-20-2013, 11:11 AM
  #278
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Originally Posted by dreamingofdrouin View Post
really? he's not even on the top 30 from ISS. not disputing he may very well turn out to be an exccellents player and i'd love bergy to take a guy with his size...but i think central scouting has him 23rd for NA skaters doesnt really seem like a stretch for us to nab him at 25
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Originally Posted by MonkeyBusiness View Post
The ISS lists mean nothing, for most of the year they didn't have Domi in the top 30. IIRC last year they had Grigorenko above Yakupov for most of the year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingofdrouin View Post
Yah i'm seeing that everybody has him all over the place....central scouting has him at 23...craig button has him 12...i really don't know who's competent and who's not.
Honesty really isn't in play when reading any of those lists, deception is at every corner and if you aren't aware you fall off the map.

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06-20-2013, 11:14 AM
  #279
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Sounds to me like if we move up at all.. 34 and 36 won't be in play. Which I like. I'd rather have basically 3 1st rounders.
I don't know. He makes it sound like he won't move up or down, but to mention picks as "appealing" makes it sound like he's talking about the views of other teams. Maybe he said it improperly or the true meaning was lost in translation. Typically something is considered appealing when you don't possess it.

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06-20-2013, 11:17 AM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Nobody is untoucheable, but Beaulieu has the tools/potential to be as good as Subban, is that something you want to gamble on trading?
Really, as good as Subban? I doubt it. He's toolsy, yes. But the mental side of his game, the way he blanks out, makes boneheaded plays in his zone, is often out of position, I don't see it. I'm not certain you can fix someone's judgment -- it's a function of his hockey IQ and it's lacking.

I think he's a talented but flawed player who will always have defensive shortcomings. I don't agree that he was above average defensively in junior -- what you see now in terms of defensive shortcomings, have always been an issue. An unresolved one.

Defensive lapses at the NHL level are a huge liability and will cost you ice time and may seal your role. If we can get fair value for him, I'd move him.

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06-20-2013, 11:22 AM
  #281
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I'd trade down.
I second that.

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06-20-2013, 11:23 AM
  #282
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
If he had RNH he'd be going in the top 10. He does not have the hands, on ice vision or slipperiness that RNH has.
He put up better production at the same age in the same league as RNH. RNH is special, and obviously it is yet to be seen if Petans game translates, But I think if Petan was 6 feet instead of 5'9", he would be going top 10 in this draft.

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06-20-2013, 11:25 AM
  #283
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
I don't know. He makes it sound like he won't move up or down, but to mention picks as "appealing" makes it sound like he's talking about the views of other teams. Maybe he said it improperly or the true meaning was lost in translation. Typically something is considered appealing when you don't possess it.
The players they (Bergevin, Timmins et al) consider will be available for the Habs to draft are appealing?

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06-20-2013, 11:36 AM
  #284
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ISS also had Nikita Filatov ahead of Drew Doughty and Brendan Gaunce ahead of Galchenyuk (who was ranked 14th)...

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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
He put up better production at the same age in the same league as RNH. RNH is special, and obviously it is yet to be seen if Petans game translates, But I think if Petan was 6 feet instead of 5'9", he would be going top 10 in this draft.
Keep in mind Petan was playing with 19 year old Ty Rattie, a legit 1st round talent.

RNH had nowhere near as good of a winger.

WTK friendly content:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...eport/2441523/

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Next up for Red Line is Tristan Jarry. He has long legs and good athleticism and does a great job of staying square to shooters, even when sliding on his knees around the crease. He also shows excellent anticipation and cross-crease mobility, getting a strong push off either skate. Unfortunately, he does play too deep in his net and occasionally loses his angles and has a tendency to kick out too many rebounds. But his flaws are the type that are easily coachable.

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06-20-2013, 11:38 AM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Runner77 View Post
Really, as good as Subban? I doubt it. He's toolsy, yes. But the mental side of his game, the way he blanks out, makes boneheaded plays in his zone, is often out of position, I don't see it. I'm not certain you can fix someone's judgment -- it's a function of his hockey IQ and it's lacking.

I think he's a talented but flawed player who will always have defensive shortcomings. I don't agree that he was above average defensively in junior -- what you see now in terms of defensive shortcomings, have always been an issue. An unresolved one.

Defensive lapses at the NHL level are a huge liability and will cost you ice time and may seal your role. If we can get fair value for him, I'd move him.
Yet the best defensemen in the Habs history was exactly as you describe Beaulieu.

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06-20-2013, 11:39 AM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Keep in mind Petan was playing with 19 year old Ty Rattie, a legit 1st round talent.

RNH's had nowhere near as good of a winger.

WTK friendly content:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...eport/2441523/
No doubt he had a better supporting cast, but Petan was the straw that stirred the drink whenever I saw Portland. He also put up a ridiculous +68 (in 70 games) which just goes to show how dominant a line they were.

I'd love to get Petan and Rychel.

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06-20-2013, 11:40 AM
  #287
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
He put up better production at the same age in the same league as RNH. RNH is special, and obviously it is yet to be seen if Petans game translates, But I think if Petan was 6 feet instead of 5'9", he would be going top 10 in this draft.
The problem is... He's not 6''. It shouldn't be a criteria. Ifs and But rarely wins you a championship.

He could probably go top 20 at his height... Petan is a special player.

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06-20-2013, 11:40 AM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
ISS also had Nikita Filatov ahead of Drew Doughty and Brendan Gaunce ahead of Galchenyuk (who was ranked 14th)...



Keep in mind Petan was playing with 19 year old Ty Rattie, a legit 1st round talent.

RNH had nowhere near as good of a winger.

WTK friendly content:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...eport/2441523/
I'd be really happy if we drafted Jarry in the 3rd round

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06-20-2013, 11:41 AM
  #289
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Cowley was at our combine and RLR likes him enough to have him 8th.

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Cowley is the giant of the bunch at 6-4, 185 pounds, and he's a huge wall-style goalie with the enormous size potential that NHL scouts crave. Cowley also shows good flexibility and athleticism for such a big kid, and when he spreads those giraffe legs, he covers the lower portion of the net. But we're not enamored with his somewhat hyper style in which he over-commits on everything around his crease. We wish he would calm down and let the play come to him a bit more, and we'd also like to see him use his size more effectively by stepping out to challenge shooters and cut down their view of the net.

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06-20-2013, 11:42 AM
  #290
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Originally Posted by dreamingofdrouin View Post
Yah i'm seeing that everybody has him all over the place....central scouting has him at 23...craig button has him 12...i really don't know who's competent and who's not.
In most times, we could give a better list of players than them here.

They have that ''create some traffic'' mentality that completely screws their list.

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06-20-2013, 11:46 AM
  #291
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Imagine worst case scenario for you, the top 24 guys you want for the Habs go within the top 24 picks.

I've brought up Petan before, but I think he'd be worth the gamble.

I'll get flamed for this, but there's a chance Galchenyuk ends up more of a winger than a center. Petan I think could form a great 1-2 down the middle with Eller as a pure offensive minded playmaker, and allow Galchenyuk to play on the wing, where he can focus on just making creating offense and not faceoffs/defensive play as much.

We can then take a McCarron, Bailey, de la Rose or Dickinson in the second round to address the size thing.

Gallagher-Eller-Galchenyuk
Pacioretty-Petan-Collberg
If the top 24 guys I wanted were gone at 25 and I had a choice between other guys I wanted less and Petan, I would take the next 24 guys on the list before Petan. HE IS TOO SMALL. There is no other way to put it. I don't care what else he brings, we need a forward with size and ability or a defenceman with size and pugnacity. There are at least 40 of those I would take a shot at before I would waste a pick on a 5'8" 163 pound smurf who would get bullied by other smurfs, never mind real players.

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06-20-2013, 11:51 AM
  #292
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Originally Posted by dreamingofdrouin View Post
really? he's not even on the top 30 from ISS. not disputing he may very well turn out to be an exccellents player and i'd love bergy to take a guy with his size...but i think central scouting has him 23rd for NA skaters doesnt really seem like a stretch for us to nab him at 25
I would love to be wrong, but Morin will go in the 11-16 range. I hope we move up to get him. He is going to be a real surprise when he hit the NHL and the team that nabs him will look like a bunch of damned geniuses. I just hope it is the Habs who get to look so good.

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06-20-2013, 11:52 AM
  #293
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I would love to be wrong, but Morin will go in the 11-16 range. I hope we move up to get him. He is going to be a real surprise when he hit the NHL and the team that nabs him will look like a bunch of damned geniuses. I just hope it is the Habs who get to look so good.
Would you take Horvat or Morin if we had the #11 pick and both were available?

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06-20-2013, 11:54 AM
  #294
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
He put up better production at the same age in the same league as RNH. RNH is special, and obviously it is yet to be seen if Petans game translates, But I think if Petan was 6 feet instead of 5'9", he would be going top 10 in this draft.
...and if I were 6' and 230 pounds I would be a linbacker for the Dallas Cowboys rather than a High School teacher. He is a smurf. We do not need anymore smurfs. We still have to find room for Collberg, Gallagher isn't getting any bigger, and DD is a top 6 forward. Gionta is also with us. We do not want Petan anywhere near this team.

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06-20-2013, 11:55 AM
  #295
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Originally Posted by Runner77 View Post
Really, as good as Subban? I doubt it. He's toolsy, yes. But the mental side of his game, the way he blanks out, makes boneheaded plays in his zone, is often out of position, I don't see it. I'm not certain you can fix someone's judgment -- it's a function of his hockey IQ and it's lacking.

I think he's a talented but flawed player who will always have defensive shortcomings. I don't agree that he was above average defensively in junior -- what you see now in terms of defensive shortcomings, have always been an issue. An unresolved one.

Defensive lapses at the NHL level are a huge liability and will cost you ice time and may seal your role. If we can get fair value for him, I'd move him.
Well in fairness, those things were all said about PK when he was an up and coming prospect. Sometimes guys who are "toolsy" can get a bit too complacent with their talents and start coasting or become over confident when the level of play isn't up to snuff.

Those types of guys either simplify or adapt their games once they get to the next level (ala Subban) or they continue to play the same style that got them as far as they did and flame out. Despite Beaulieu's off-ice issues with his dad, im sure he has still been told what needs to do to be successful at the NHL level taht he wasn't doing in Junior, and so far his play as a pro seems indicative of good progress.

I feel like the habs have done a pretty good job of drafting CHL talent in the early rounds over the past few years. Guys like Tinordi, Beaulieu, Subban and Galch (Leblanc not so much so far). I'm a born pessimist and have been beaten down by my many years of watching the habs struggle to draft elite talent, but even I'm a bit enthused by our young guys. I think with the new management in place, Beaulieu gets the tutelage and guidance he needs to adapt his amazing tools to the NHL. It also probably doesn't hurt to see a guy who had the same knocks against him in Junior collect a Norris trophy and sit in the stall next to you.

As Sean Avery once said (in an interview with Strombo i think), hockey players are very, very, very simple. Tell a guy "do X and you will get Y" and he actually wants Y...he will do it. "Simplify your game and you will be a full time NHLer in no time" sounds like advice Beaulieu has already taken to heart.

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06-20-2013, 11:56 AM
  #296
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Would you take Horvat or Morin if we had the #11 pick and both were available?
Always take the forward. Though it's realy a toss as both have intangibles more than skills.

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06-20-2013, 12:01 PM
  #297
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Would you take Horvat or Morin if we had the #11 pick and both were available?
Ouch, you are being very unfair to me with that one...Lol. Isn't hitting below the belt against the rules?

I think I would go with Morin. Horvat will be a very good two-way forward, and he is a center with some size, but I don't see him replacing Eller or Galchenyuk. He is also not going to turn into a power forward, and he is not a fighting type. As such, based on our team's needs and how difficult it is to get a defenceman who is big, mobile, has decent vision, can move the puck, clear the crease and fight, I would have to say I would take Morin pretty easily, once I really sit and think about it.

I seriously believe Morin is going to go a lot higher than many people think he will. I want Bergevin to move up to get him or Darnell Nurse. Those are my targets.

Thanks for making me think!

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06-20-2013, 12:03 PM
  #298
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morgan klimchuk. that is the name posted at 25. I KNOW CS is just a guide line but how come I never hear talk about this kid on here?

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06-20-2013, 12:07 PM
  #299
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morgan klimchuk. that is the name posted at 25. I KNOW CS is just a guide line but how come I never hear talk about this kid on here?
Sniper, pure and simple. A hard working, superb handed, opportunistic goal scorer that can provide game-changing passes and goals at any moment. To be an NHL sniper he needs more strength, but he has an elite level "catch and release" shot that happens at top level speed. Still under six foot and room for muscle, but still showed he was an elite junior player at the 2012 World U-17’s, scoring 2 goals and 6 points in 5 games for Team Pacific. More of an North-South skater who is good at finding the places to attack and makes scoring chances for himself and linemates with his excellent passing. He was selected to the roster for the World Junior Under-18 Tournament in April, where he played mostly on the wing.



http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/player/...limchuk/18390/

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06-20-2013, 12:10 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
...and if I were 6' and 230 pounds I would be a linbacker for the Dallas Cowboys rather than a High School teacher. He is a smurf. We do not need anymore smurfs. We still have to find room for Collberg, Gallagher isn't getting any bigger, and DD is a top 6 forward. Gionta is also with us. We do not want Petan anywhere near this team.
Does RNH's 6' frame really do anything for him? Would he be any worse of a player if he were 5'9"?

Real question, I'm not so sure.

And I'd also say Petan is more willing to get his nose dirty than RNH is.

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