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Sather Speaks: Lack of Puck Possession Had "A lot to do" with Torts' firing

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06-20-2013, 10:43 AM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
To the OP.

What do you want from Sather? Do you want him to publically state that he's a buffoon, has no idea what he is doing, doesn't have the pulse of the team?

I'm not sure what you are after here because if it's anything close to the above then you are going to remain disappointed.

Regardless of the extension, regardless of whether he had a birdy in the Org. feeding him info about the inner workings of the team from Coach down, regardless if it was players that provided him the basis for the firing, it was a move that HAD to be made. His system was flawed in design and approach. The breakout was predictable and never adjusted much. The offensive "scheme" was non-existant, The PP was getting worse by the year. In addition to ALL of that, Torts is an abbrasive personality that is and has been difficult to approach when you have a differing of opinion on style and approach.

I presonally felt that Sather should not have been the guy to lead the franchise out of the 05 lockout.

I also feel that some of the guys that run our draft should NOT be considered as replacements for Sather based on the passive players that have drafted amd acquired over the last few years.

If you are looking for Sather to commit career suicide, you are barking up the wrong tree.

IT'S NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

So I ask:

What is it exactly that you are looking for from Sather?
Good post. Your points are valid. I just feel like as BRB and some others do that he is extremely contradictory with his comments. He only talks when it's convenient for him (ie things are going well or a move is perceived as a good one) or he absolutely has to. He doesn't have accountability. Obviously, my frustrations mirror yours in terms of Sather's leadership skills and some front office personalities. I am not asking for Sather to commit career suicide. I know he won't. And honestly, based on his chummy relationship with Dolan, I'm unsure that he could even if he tried. All I ask for is some kind of consistency in his message. To me, these contradictions represent the larger scale problem in that he doesn't have a long term plan is incomplete or unmapped. That's all.



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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Hell yes, this guy gets it. I don't come around much anymore because of the way this board must fight about every single thing and act like the smallest incident or issue is the worst thing ever, blah blah blah. This board pretty much sucks these days but it's a good place to get the most recent news
I don't disagree with any of that. I don't post as often or read certain things as much either. I was not on these boards complaining after every win or hoping the Rangers tanked down the stretch just so Torts would lose his job. As I say, I am a generally and genuinely optimistic guy with respect to life and this team and my post history reflects that.

A lot about how Sather has handled things bothered me and this situation just made it bubble over for me. Just as people wonder(ed) whether Torts was capable of being the coach to get us over the hump and a Cup, I question whether Sather is that man just the same. I am just frustrated that Sather has been given the ability to hire another coach and he remains unscathed.

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06-20-2013, 10:58 AM
  #102
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On the day Torts was fired,Sather talked about style of play. The team will never win trying to win games 1-0 and 2-1. His comments yesterday weren't anything new. Some people wanted Tippett. He would have been a disaster. Talk about boring hockey. We don't know what happened. Did the Rangers ask Torts to open up the system? He either refused or he agreed and they thought he was too stubborn to change. Torts felt the Rangers have to play his way if they're going to win. Shot blocking. All 3 forwards collapse down low to defend. Time for a new direction.

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06-20-2013, 11:04 AM
  #103
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Does that mean they are not going to sign free agents who are contradictory to playing that way?

Does that mean they are going to try to trade current players who can not play that style?

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06-20-2013, 11:22 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
What is he talking about? There's a ton of dump-ins. On several occasions the Blackhawks have skated the puck all the way up to the blueline to dump it in.
Theres a difference between dumps to change lines/no open passes compared to the rangers "if you have the puck dump it in" style of play.

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06-20-2013, 11:23 AM
  #105
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There's a lot of talking out of both sides of his mouth going on here. Sather just now realizes the way the top teams play? He has his finger on the pulse of the team?

If these things are true, why was Torts returning ever an option?

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06-20-2013, 11:27 AM
  #106
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I find it hard to believe that hockey players would go up to Sather and wish the coach or assistant coach out.

Just a belief. Playing hockey myself on several teams, observing these pros and how hockey players act. I just cant see more than 2-3 guys complaining about coaches. I mean, everyone wants to quickly say that the team couldnt stand Torts anymore but that very same team came from behind and poured their heart and soul into beating the caps in round 1 and playing very well late in the season.

I find it hard to believe that the team got fed up and gave up against Boston. I dont think its personal issues. I think Sather put together a really bad team to replace key role players from last season. The trade the Rangers (idk if Sather made that call or not) to land Moore and Brassard was crucial. We obtained two guys who can skate and play with the puck with poise and control.

Then we became a more exciting and valuable playoff team.

But when it came time to play Boston, we were just no match.

Not to make injuries an excuse for our loss but injuries could be a reason why Nash looked slow in round 1, why Callahan and Hagelin werent supermen out there, why DZ was messing up countlessly and why others had issues.

Bad injuries we learn about later.


So I dont think Torts firing was justified really, but a change was needed and I think Sather caught onto it late. He saw a pool full of great coaches that have shown to focus on defense but even more so on offense and I think he pulled the trigger when he saw these guys available.

Torts gets contract ext. Before they realized how bad some things were related to team focus.

Vigneault gets fired, along with Tippet being rumored to be released. Ruff in their too. I mean, Sather sees an opportunity to get a better coach. Fair game.

There were lots of issues with Torts, though I liked him.

Though he was no nonsense, sometimes that could hurt us. He asks, are you ready to play. Yes or no. Players are always ready to play. Yet why is Callahan and Hags still playing with multiple shoulder issues? Why is Nash playing 20+ minutes during a concussion.

in 5 years the PP got worse and worse. Stagnant. Its simple. tell your players to MOVEEEEEE. Pass the puck, move. Even if your on the other side of the ice. MOVE. Dont stay still. Possession starts with player and PUCK movement. Coaches job to insure that the players meet this need.

Idc if we dump every single shift. But we dumped on some PRETTY bad plays. At least 60% of our dumps, we had no body chasing. Thats not possession.
When Boston dumps it in, they have swarms of people.

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06-20-2013, 11:32 AM
  #107
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Vigneault is impressing me more and more.

With the Canucks I am sure he learned valuable things like their investment into sleep science, their investment into in depth stats analyzing and other great things you can def learn coaching for a Canadian club like Vancouver.

Even without the Canucks investments into stats, AV has said to always been a stats and film guy. He spends countless hours watching film and breaking down opponents. He also took the info the Nucks gave him and created Zone Matching and other key components.

He improved the Vancouver offense ten fold with his ideology. I watched some highlights of the Nucks and though it has a lot to do with the players at hand, I cant help but to think he stresses and focuses on making sure his players move the puck swiftly. Focus on more puck possession and control.

He has a lot of experience with young guys which should bold well for our young club. He also has experience with super stars, veterans, european players and american guys. Basically, I like his diversity.

I understand why Torts kept Kreider at bay. But I think under AV Kreider will do better. So will Brassard and Callahan.

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06-20-2013, 11:34 AM
  #108
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My biggest concern for 2013-14 is roster.

I think Pyatt, Asham, Hamrlik have to go. I think we need a guy like Dubinsky. Versatile guy.

Wouldnt mind looking into Filliupula too.

We have too many guys on our roster who are slow, sluggish and stagnant. We need more speed, doesnt mean you have to lose size though.

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06-20-2013, 12:29 PM
  #109
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torts was bounced because key players said hes gotta go. slats was leveraged.

torts lost the room.

period.

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06-20-2013, 12:41 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
torts was bounced because key players said hes gotta go. slats was leveraged.

torts lost the room.

period.
This just makes the situation even more ****ed up. Thats twice in 4 years now where some core players (Lundqvist, Girardi, Staal, Callahan) have been either directly or indirectly involved in a player's revolt against the coach

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06-20-2013, 12:57 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
This just makes the situation even more ****ed up. Thats twice in 4 years now where some core players (Lundqvist, Girardi, Staal, Callahan) have been either directly or indirectly involved in a player's revolt against the coach
Don't worry, Sather has his finger on the pulse of the team.

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06-20-2013, 01:02 PM
  #112
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Don't worry, Sather has his finger on the pulse of the team.
His head is too far up his own ass to figure out where his fingers are.

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06-20-2013, 01:10 PM
  #113
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I do not think that ONE player stated that Torts has to go.

I have no belief that any one player said that.

I do believe that when asked about the year, their thoughts about the teams performance, their performance and how they felt the coaching staff prepared them from game to game, some key players may have been uniform in their not so glowing comments about how they felt playing a certain style as compared to their specific skill sets.

No secret that Torts plays a grinding style

It's also no secret that the majority of our top 6 have a more finesse style such as Nash, Richards, Stepan and Hagelin. These are not grinders. Playing that way is a mindset that needs to be matched to a physical stature that has played that way for a while. Callahan is a grinding type player. He's had that mindset his whole career.

Asking guys that have played a finesse game to grind is asking for trouble.

Hank needs support in the form of goals. He wasn't going to get that from the Rangers playing Torts system.

So the question is then, do you get rid of the finesse guys? Or do you get in a coach that knows how to employe a more finesse friendly system? The latter is the MUCH easier option.

AV will employe more of a finesse game for his finesse players and as such I think that they will be more productive for it.

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06-20-2013, 01:23 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I do not think that ONE player stated that Torts has to go.

I have no belief that any one player said that.

I do believe that when asked about the year, their thoughts about the teams performance, their performance and how they felt the coaching staff prepared them from game to game, some key players may have been uniform in their not so glowing comments about how they felt playing a certain style as compared to their specific skill sets.
Yeah, this would be my guess. Players not happy with how the season ended, and wishing the system could be changed or opened up or something. I suspect just enough expressed frustration with having the same problems and not being more competitive against Boston, that it lead Sather to decide to change coaches. I doubt anyone outright said "get rid of Tortorella"

Quote:
So the question is then, do you get rid of the finesse guys? Or do you get in a coach that knows how to employe a more finesse friendly system? The latter is the MUCH easier option.

AV will employe more of a finesse game for his finesse players and as such I think that they will be more productive for it.
And this. You can hope that your coach can change this style in response to the players being frustrated, or you can change the coach, or you can change your players. Easiest is changing the coach.

And honestly it was easy to see that the system needed changing. A lot of things just weren't working right and it's obvious to see that teams figured out how to crack the short blocking system the Rangers used successfully before this year.

I hope your right about AV implementing a better system for the personnel.

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06-20-2013, 01:23 PM
  #115
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Theres a difference between dumps to change lines/no open passes compared to the rangers "if you have the puck dump it in" style of play.
The Rangers don't dump it in when the don't have to. They move the puck up quickly and that results in some dump ins. Quinneville was asked about "playing fast" last night. He said he didn't want his defenders passing the puck back and fourth to each other. That's some the Rangers hardly ever do. Torts preached using the boards and getting the puck up quickly.

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06-20-2013, 01:25 PM
  #116
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The Rangers don't dump it in when the don't have to. They move the puck up quickly and that results in some dump ins. Quinneville was asked about "playing fast" last night. He said he didn't want his defenders passing the puck back and fourth to each other. That's some the Rangers hardly ever do. Torts preached using the boards and getting the puck up quickly.
The Rangers weren't very good at coordinating their dumpins or rushes, though. Partly because their forwards were often starting so deep in the defensive zone, but many many times when they tried to dump and chase, the guy dumping the puck would dump it while all of his teammates were standing still, or still trying to catch up, so the forecheckers would neverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr arrive in time to actually retrieve the puck. That was infuriating.

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06-20-2013, 01:29 PM
  #117
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In this particular situation, I fail to see any justifiable reason to bash Sather. The Rangers are a first class organization, do you expect him to come out and admit that the players wanted Tortorella out? No. He needs to maintain some sort of level of professionalism.

Despite whether it is true or not, Sather took the professional route and made it seem like it was purely business. Tortorella's product (his system) was not up to par and he was relieved of his duties. We can sit here and speculate until we are all blue in the face, but it won't make a difference. We'll never know if how much of a factor Tortorella's system was to his firing. But, to me at least, it seems to me he is just spewing platitudes because it is the most "classy" thing to do.

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06-20-2013, 01:30 PM
  #118
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Redden might be the worst free agent signing in the history of the NHL. And that's not revisionist history. Most fans including me were horrified when it happened.
I lost a bet on that signing. I said no way it would be more than 4.5 million. Buddy of mine said it would be over 6... Damn you Wade.

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06-20-2013, 01:32 PM
  #119
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I lost a bet on that signing. I said no way it would be more than 4.5 million. Buddy of mine said it would be over 6... Damn you Wade.
Not Wade's fault.

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06-20-2013, 01:33 PM
  #120
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The Rangers weren't very good at coordinating their dumpins or rushes, though. Partly because their forwards were often starting so deep in the defensive zone, but many many times when they tried to dump and chase, the guy dumping the puck would dump it while all of his teammates were standing still, or still trying to catch up, so the forecheckers would neverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr arrive in time to actually retrieve the puck. That was infuriating.
That happens with every team. Sometime their dump ins did work. And sometimes they moved the puck through the neutral zone and scored goals. That's hockey.

The Rangers finished 15th in scoring, four spots ahead of Vancouver and only one spot behind Boston. If Tort's offensive style was so out of touch they would have finished near they bottom, they didn't. 15th is pretty good considering they don't have a legit offensive superstar or a power play qb.

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06-20-2013, 01:35 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by The Perfect Paradox View Post
In this particular situation, I fail to see any justifiable reason to bash Sather. The Rangers are a first class organization, do you expect him to come out and admit that the players wanted Tortorella out? No. He needs to maintain some sort of level of professionalism.

Despite whether it is true or not, Sather took the professional route and made it seem like it was purely business. Tortorella's product (his system) was not up to par and he was relieved of his duties. We can sit here and speculate until we are all blue in the face, but it won't make a difference. We'll never know if how much of a factor Tortorella's system was to his firing. But, to me at least, it seems to me he is just spewing platitudes because it is the most "classy" thing to do.
According to Brooks he already did unless Brooks made that up.

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06-20-2013, 01:38 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
That happens with every team. Sometime their dump ins did work. And sometimes they moved the puck through the neutral zone and scored goals. That's hockey.

The Rangers finished 15th in scoring, four spots ahead of Vancouver and only one spot behind Boston. If Tort's offensive style was so out of touch they would have finished near they bottom, they didn't. 15th is pretty good considering they don't have a legit offensive superstar or a power play qb.
Regular season statistics aren't really the issue. Most of us have serious doubts about whether or not Tortorella's system was flexible enough to produce offense in the tighter games that happen in the playoffs. Of teams in the final 8 over the last 2 years, the Rangers have been 7th in goal scoring in both playoffs. It's a problem.

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06-20-2013, 01:46 PM
  #123
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I know the saying goes it takes one, to know one, but do you really think that Dolan is going to say anyting close?

Product on the ice is such a distant concern for Dolan it's laughable.

Sather has made Dolan a boat load of money.

Corporate owners care about that WAY before they care about how many banners hang from the rafters.

Dolan will fire Sather when, and only when, Sather starts losing money.

This is Sather's final ride and it will not end until he decides he's had enough. Not Dolan
You act as if this is wrong. At the end of the day the Rangers are a business, no different then any other product we support, use or view. Business is business. Stop making it sound like making money is so evil.

Why else would Dolan own the Rangers? Why did an investment group offer to buy the NHL and its entirety during the 04-05 lock out? Because it's true colors are that of a business and there is serious money to be made.

Sather is the one who wants to win the cup. Dolan is the one who wants to make money and he can give two ****s about a cup as long as cash is going into his pocket and... RIGHTFULLY SO.


For those of you who have issues with Dolan... Your anger is misguided.

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06-20-2013, 01:47 PM
  #124
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Not Wade's fault.
No its Sathers fault.

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06-20-2013, 01:47 PM
  #125
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According to Brooks he already did unless Brooks made that up.
If that is the case, that gives Sather even more of a reason to use "the system" explanation to mitigate the effects of that report.

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