HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 12.0

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-20-2013, 12:12 PM
  #301
hototogisu
Global Moderator
Poked the bear!!!!!
 
hototogisu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,950
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeHaboholique View Post
morgan klimchuk. that is the name posted at 25. I KNOW CS is just a guide line but how come I never hear talk about this kid on here?
We're on the twelfth edition of the draft thread...I assure you, he's been discussed

hototogisu is online now  
Old
06-20-2013, 12:12 PM
  #302
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner77 View Post
Really, as good as Subban? I doubt it. He's toolsy, yes. But the mental side of his game, the way he blanks out, makes boneheaded plays in his zone, is often out of position, I don't see it. I'm not certain you can fix someone's judgment -- it's a function of his hockey IQ and it's lacking.

I think he's a talented but flawed player who will always have defensive shortcomings. I don't agree that he was above average defensively in junior -- what you see now in terms of defensive shortcomings, have always been an issue. An unresolved one.

Defensive lapses at the NHL level are a huge liability and will cost you ice time and may seal your role. If we can get fair value for him, I'd move him.
Every drafted player is flawed, it's just a matter of improving their flaws while still developing their strengths. I have never heard of him having black outs or seizures, I think you have him confused with AK46.

Beaulieu is known to have very high hockey IQ to go along with his skating and size, your "hockey IQ and it's lacking" is way out in left field. It's like saying Prust isn't gritty or tough.

Subban had more work to do defensively at the same age and he turned out pretty good.

Monctonscout is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 12:13 PM
  #303
Habs 4 Life
No Excuses
 
Habs 4 Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Italy
Posts: 32,933
vCash: 500
Draft Petan and then trade him to the Blues so he can reunite with Rattie and trade him for Halak so we could finally have our #1 goalie

Habs 4 Life is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 12:15 PM
  #304
hototogisu
Global Moderator
Poked the bear!!!!!
 
hototogisu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,950
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Subban had more work to do defensively at the same age and he turned out pretty good.
Subban has a compete level and a desire to improve and be the best that I think few active NHLers would be hard-pressed to match...let alone Beaulieu, who has already had questions raised about his work ethic and desire.

Let's not pretend Subban's development was the norm, and not the exception.

hototogisu is online now  
Old
06-20-2013, 12:18 PM
  #305
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
...and if I were 6' and 230 pounds I would be a linbacker for the Dallas Cowboys rather than a High School teacher. He is a smurf. We do not need anymore smurfs. We still have to find room for Collberg, Gallagher isn't getting any bigger, and DD is a top 6 forward. Gionta is also with us. We do not want Petan anywhere near this team.
The draft is still 95% about adding VALUE. That's where the whole BPA comes in.

Obviously if you see a 6'4" guy and Petan as equals and you need more big vs small payers in your system you take the big guy...BUT...if at some point in the draft Petan is far and away the BPA you take him without an ounce of hesitation. If he becomes a potential NHL impact player then you can easily swap him for a player better than the big guy you could have drafted instead.

Do you think the Flyers could trade Giroux for a "big/mobile d-man" better than Fischer if they wanted? I know it's an extreme situation but it still applies.

Monctonscout is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 12:25 PM
  #306
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Subban has a compete level and a desire to improve and be the best that I think few active NHLers would be hard-pressed to match...let alone Beaulieu, who has already had questions raised about his work ethic and desire.

Let's not pretend Subban's development was the norm, and not the exception.
Whoever raised those questions didn't talk to Bergevin, he had him as the most improved young player(and they had a pile) in Hamilton. I doubt he got that distinction by dragging his feet. 18th overall picks usually don't play NHL games 22 months after being drafted so he is well ahead of the curve.

Monctonscout is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 12:29 PM
  #307
hototogisu
Global Moderator
Poked the bear!!!!!
 
hototogisu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,950
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Whoever raised those questions didn't talk to Bergevin, he had him as the most improved young player(and they had a pile) in Hamilton. I doubt he got that distinction by dragging his feet. 18th overall picks usually don't play NHL games 22 months after being drafted so he is well ahead of the curve.
And as good as Bergevin thinks he is, I doubt he'd draw any comparisons between him and Subban either.

hototogisu is online now  
Old
06-20-2013, 12:36 PM
  #308
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
And as good as Bergevin thinks he is, I doubt he'd draw any comparisons between him and Subban either.
At the same age he is ahead of where Subban was. He has huge potential. that's what you have with prospects POTENTIAL, part 2 is maxing it out.

Monctonscout is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 12:41 PM
  #309
Fozz
Registered User
 
Fozz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,311
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
I was actually agreeing with your post. I guess the way I worded that can be confusing and interpreted both ways. Couldn't agree more with you. You trade Beaulieu for a 2nd and that player may not be NHL ready until 2017. Then maybe it takes that player 1 year to be comfortable in the NHL. Then maybe another year before he breaks out. It can be a long wait. Meanwhile, Beaulieu could be in the NHL fulltime in 2014.
Gotcha.

The funny thing is that when this newly drafted player is ready, people will want to trade him for another pick in the 2018 draft.

Fozz is online now  
Old
06-20-2013, 12:51 PM
  #310
Drydenwasthebest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,407
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Does RNH's 6' frame really do anything for him? Would he be any worse of a player if he were 5'9"?

Real question, I'm not so sure.

And I'd also say Petan is more willing to get his nose dirty than RNH is.
The problem with RNH is that he does not have the muscle necessary filling out that 6è frame. He is fragile because he is gangly. If he could hit the gym and pack on some muscle, he would be more durable and able to deal with the #1 center role on an NHL team. His talent, his skills, his tool box, IQ, are all elite. All of that is great, but limited if he is going to get hurt year-after-year. RNH would be no better or worse if he were 5'9".

Petan IS willing to get his nose dirty, but that does not make him any more valuable to our team. Actually, it increases the liklihood of him getting hurt at the NHL level. Petan may well be great, but it should be somewhere else. He does not represent a NEED for our team. That is the real answer from what I can see.

Drydenwasthebest is online now  
Old
06-20-2013, 12:54 PM
  #311
yianik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,871
vCash: 500
At this point in time I think with one of our 1st 3 picks I would like one of Morin, Ristolainen, McCoshen, and Heatherington. With the other 2 picks I would like 2 guys from Zykov, Horvat, Bailey, De La Rose, Gauthier and Erne. At 55 Diaby or Santini. Everything is subject to availability and I know people will say so and so wont be available there but who knows, players are ranked everywhere depending on what you are reading. Players aren't listed in preference, though I do have some I like better than others.

yianik is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 12:57 PM
  #312
hogtownhabsfan*
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,727
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
The problem with RNH is that he does not have the muscle necessary filling out that 6è frame. He is fragile because he is gangly. If he could hit the gym and pack on some muscle, he would be more durable and able to deal with the #1 center role on an NHL team. His talent, his skills, his tool box, IQ, are all elite. All of that is great, but limited if he is going to get hurt year-after-year. RNH would be no better or worse if he were 5'9".

Petan IS willing to get his nose dirty, but that does not make him any more valuable to our team. Actually, it increases the liklihood of him getting hurt at the NHL level. Petan may well be great, but it should be somewhere else. He does not represent a NEED for our team. That is the real answer from what I can see.
So you wouldn't take a 5'9" RNH at 25 in this draft?


And I'm not a big fan of drafting for need, but I do think Petan could fill a need. If Galchenyuk ends up a wing, we need another top 6 center to pair with Eller, and I believe Petan to be a great stylistic complement to Eller.

hogtownhabsfan* is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 12:59 PM
  #313
Drydenwasthebest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,407
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
The draft is still 95% about adding VALUE. That's where the whole BPA comes in.

Obviously if you see a 6'4" guy and Petan as equals and you need more big vs small payers in your system you take the big guy...BUT...if at some point in the draft Petan is far and away the BPA you take him without an ounce of hesitation. If he becomes a potential NHL impact player then you can easily swap him for a player better than the big guy you could have drafted instead.

Do you think the Flyers could trade Giroux for a "big/mobile d-man" better than Fischer if they wanted? I know it's an extreme situation but it still applies.It does NOT apply. Who is to say Giroux was BPA? I believe this little guy known as Corey Perry was drafted a few picks AFTER Giroux... You can not look at the Habs pick of Fischer and use it as justification for picking BPA when it seemed like Fischer was the better player in the minors.
Who determines BPA, though? Yes, if Petan is clear and away the BPA on the board, take a shot...with a later round pick. In THIS deep a draft, though, you have enough guys with size who are at the very least comparable to Petan that you shouldn't even look at Petan's name if you are the Montreal Canadiens. You should NOT draft a player with the notion that he might be good trade bait sometime down the line with your 1st round pick in a draft. In any case, there are more than 25 guys who are beter than Petan in this draft, so it should not be a problem for us at #25.

Drydenwasthebest is online now  
Old
06-20-2013, 01:06 PM
  #314
Drydenwasthebest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,407
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
So you wouldn't take a 5'9" RNH at 25 in this draft?


And I'm not a big fan of drafting for need, but I do think Petan could fill a need. If Galchenyuk ends up a wing, we need another top 6 center to pair with Eller, and I believe Petan to be a great stylistic complement to Eller.
With our team as it is, I would not take a 5'9" RNH at the #25 spot in this draft.

Petan should not be replacing Galchenyuk at center. Ever. Let's keep Galchenyuk at center and find him a big winger to complement him and/or Eller, rather than put a smurf into our top center spot again. We have had decades of failed smurf centers in regards to leading us to a Stanley Cup. It is time to try and get centers and wingers with size. We already have enough smurfs in our top 6, no need to add to them. As it is, we probably need to subtract a smurf from our top 6 to make way for a bigger player. We definitely do not add another one. Using your RNH example, notice how the Oilers have 4 amazing elite level forwards in their top 6. How well did they do? What do they say their needs are? SIZE and SKILL in the top 6. We do not need to become the Oilers of the East. Having a couple of small forwards in your top 6 is fine if you have the big guys necessary around them. We have Gallagher, Gionta, and DD. We need big guys around them. If anything, we need to remove one of them and ad another big guy. Drafting Petan is useless. Heck, we already have the Petan you want in the form of Collberg, another small guy who is supposed to enter our top 6 sometime sooner than later. So, NO, evn if Petan is the second coming of RNH, do not draft him. I take Morin over Petan 100 times out of every 10.

Drydenwasthebest is online now  
Old
06-20-2013, 01:10 PM
  #315
Fozz
Registered User
 
Fozz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,311
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingofdrouin View Post
Yah i'm seeing that everybody has him all over the place....central scouting has him at 23...craig button has him 12...i really don't know who's competent and who's not.
It's not a matter of being competent or not... It's a matter of this being a draft where there's very little separation between picks 10 and 50 or so. Everyone will have a different list, depending on the what they value in a prospect and what games they saw. It will be the same for the lists of all 30 teams come draft day.

Fozz is online now  
Old
06-20-2013, 01:21 PM
  #316
Team_Spirit
Tinordi-Subban
 
Team_Spirit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 20,360
vCash: 700
Do you think PK is honest when he says he lil bro is better than him at the same age?

Team_Spirit is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 01:22 PM
  #317
Fozz
Registered User
 
Fozz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,311
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
I'd be really happy if we drafted Jarry in the 3rd round
To be honest, I wouldn't even mind him at 36! I think could end up being the best goalie in the draft.

Fozz is online now  
Old
06-20-2013, 01:23 PM
  #318
Runner77
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,332
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
Do you think PK is honest when he says he lil bro is better than him at the same age?
Just like any of us talking about our siblings -- we don't mean to be dishonest but it's difficult to act objectively. Wouldn't hold him to anything he says although it's nice of him to respect his brother in that manner.

Runner77 is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 01:29 PM
  #319
S Bah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: victoria bc
Country: Wales
Posts: 4,560
vCash: 50
Depending upon the Habs getting Diaby in the 2nd round once that's accomplished, the next priority in my mind is securing Zach Sanford, then Hayden or Moutrey. Hayden, I see as a Chris Neil type and Moutrey in the Mike MacPhee range. All three are going to the NHL as I see them and Sanford has the greater upside of the three. I believe they were all at the Habs Combine if memory serves. Sanford would be like a John Leclair type when he fills out his 6'4" - 190 lbs. frame.

S Bah is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 01:29 PM
  #320
Hullois
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Québec
Country: Martinique
Posts: 1,305
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
With our team as it is, I would not take a 5'9" RNH at the #25 spot in this draft.

Petan should not be replacing Galchenyuk at center. Ever. Let's keep Galchenyuk at center and find him a big winger to complement him and/or Eller, rather than put a smurf into our top center spot again. We have had decades of failed smurf centers in regards to leading us to a Stanley Cup. It is time to try and get centers and wingers with size. We already have enough smurfs in our top 6, no need to add to them. As it is, we probably need to subtract a smurf from our top 6 to make way for a bigger player. We definitely do not add another one. Using your RNH example, notice how the Oilers have 4 amazing elite level forwards in their top 6. How well did they do? What do they say their needs are? SIZE and SKILL in the top 6. We do not need to become the Oilers of the East. Having a couple of small forwards in your top 6 is fine if you have the big guys necessary around them. We have Gallagher, Gionta, and DD. We need big guys around them. If anything, we need to remove one of them and ad another big guy. Drafting Petan is useless. Heck, we already have the Petan you want in the form of Collberg, another small guy who is supposed to enter our top 6 sometime sooner than later. So, NO, evn if Petan is the second coming of RNH, do not draft him. I take Morin over Petan 100 times out of every 10.

Good job there, I think you successfully inserted the words smurf and/or big guy in every damn sentence in your post. Even when talking about Collberg who will probably play at 6". Talk about small guys.

Hullois is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 01:30 PM
  #321
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Who determines BPA, though? Yes, if Petan is clear and away the BPA on the board, take a shot...with a later round pick. In THIS deep a draft, though, you have enough guys with size who are at the very least comparable to Petan that you shouldn't even look at Petan's name if you are the Montreal Canadiens. You should NOT draft a player with the notion that he might be good trade bait sometime down the line with your 1st round pick in a draft. In any case, there are more than 25 guys who are beter than Petan in this draft, so it should not be a problem for us at #25.
Perry wasn't in the same draft as Giroux.

I know Giroux-Fischer is an extreme example, I said so in my original message...but the point remains you don't pass on a potential 30 goal scorer for a 6'2" 3rd line grinder just because you NEED one. Swing for the fences in the draft and get the depth guys by trade or UFA.

Monctonscout is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 01:31 PM
  #322
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by S Bah View Post
Depending upon the Habs getting Diaby in the 2nd round once that's accomplished, the next priority in my mind is securing Zach Sanford, then Hayden or Moutrey. Hayden, I see as a Chris Neil type and Moutrey in the Mike MacPhee range. All three are going to the NHL as I see them and Sanford has the greater upside of the three. I believe they were all at the Habs Combine if memory serves.
Diaby would be a huge reach in round 2. best case he ends up a 3rd pair d-man, worst case, the LNAH, not enough upside.

Monctonscout is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 01:41 PM
  #323
S Bah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: victoria bc
Country: Wales
Posts: 4,560
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Diaby would be a huge reach in round 2. best case he ends up a 3rd pair d-man, worst case, the LNAH, not enough upside.
Yes he does have a tremendous reach 81" at the draft combine apparently tied with someone for that honor.

S Bah is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 01:44 PM
  #324
Joe Lamb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: downeast
Posts: 207
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Yet the best defensemen in the Habs history was exactly as you describe Beaulieu.
Who are you referring to ?

Joe Lamb is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 01:47 PM
  #325
yianik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,871
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by S Bah View Post
Depending upon the Habs getting Diaby in the 2nd round once that's accomplished, the next priority in my mind is securing Zach Sanford, then Hayden or Moutrey. Hayden, I see as a Chris Neil type and Moutrey in the Mike MacPhee range. All three are going to the NHL as I see them and Sanford has the greater upside of the three. I believe they were all at the Habs Combine if memory serves. Sanford would be like a John Leclair type when he fills out his 6'4" - 190 lbs. frame.
I like the names you have laid out.

yianik is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:16 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.