HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Jonathan Bernier Race Down to 3 Teams (TOR, PHI, MIN)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-20-2013, 02:33 PM
  #26
Mats26
Cup Champs
 
Mats26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 492
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
the first part of the post is a quote from the last thread.
I know.

Mats26 is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 02:34 PM
  #27
Darth Milbury
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Darth Milbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Searching for Kvasha
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 38,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoreZeGoals View Post
Because if multiple teams are interested, there is no guarantee Bernier signs any particular teams offer sheet. You trade for Bernier to make sure you get his rights, then sign him. If Snow wants him, go get him, otherwise he risks not getting him. It's that simple. There leverage comes from there being multiple bidders, as long as that is the case, Lombardi will have some leverage
When was the last time an RFA received mutiple offer sheets? As far as I know, it has never happened. Offer sheets are relatively rare. In this case, you've got a good goalie who a few days may be intereseted in, but let's not get beyond the facts here. Maybe he gets an offer sheet because the Kings are so vulnerable (in terms of being too near the cap to counter). But, that is far from being certain.

And, btw, if the Isles or any other team acquires him, that would not preclude an offer sheet. The Isles could trade for his rights, and then Philly or Toronto could sign him to an offer sheet the very next day.

__________________
Man, do I ever miss Oleg Kvasha. If Oleg was here, everything would be OK.
Darth Milbury is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 02:36 PM
  #28
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ont. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,305
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowne Royale View Post
There should be a requirement for the boards that one must be able to communicate at a 5th grade level; if you can't spell the names of your star players, it's not likely you can reason your way through a trade. Waiting for the next mention of ...NYI's offer of a 1st, a 3rd, and Kirill Kabanov

Anyways, when you analyze the goalie market, I think it's pretty easy to see that Bernier's the best choice. Of the prospect goalies, he's the most refined (Raanta, Khudobin), a Cup winner, an 11th overall pick, and groomed in a good organizational culture with Ranford overseeing his development. He's got really good stats with irregular playing time, so they're likely to get better with more playing time, all things equal.

Overall, he's cheaper than the big-name free agents like Smith and Backstrom. With Smith, there's the risk of him returning to his Tampa performance, and being stuck with Bryzgalov 2.0. Backstrom is on the downside of his career, and is likely going back to Minnesota, plus he's hurt 25% of the time. Nabokov is nothing more than a short-term stopgap, same with Vokoun.

On the trade market, you've got Ryan "Loose Lips" Miller who's also in the decline and expensive. On top of that, Ward might be available, but he's no better than Miller at this stage in his career. I'm not even going to propose Luongo as a viable option due to his contract, the fact the Vancouver didn't move him when they had the chance, and that people generally dislike the Canucks and other GMs are probably getting a kick out of Gillis looking like a complete tool.

Then you've got the possibility of Bryzgalov hitting the market, but that would require an organization taking a risk in terms of distraction and culture influence; I'd think it would have to be a small-market team.

So, when you consider the options on the market, Bernier is the only option that's cheap (big concern with the cap coming down), proven he can handle the load, entering his prime, and will thrive in a new role with a new team. Or, at least, that's the projection.

Then, when you look at the teams who have goaltending issues:

-Colorado (Varlamov has mostly been a bust)
-Calgary (Kipper to retire?)
-Minnesota (Backstrom to come back?)
-Edmonton (Dubnyk is eeeeeehhhhhh)
-Phoenix (big hole if Smith leaves)
-Philadelphia (to buy-out or not to buy-out)
-New Jersey (heir apparent to Brodeur?)
-New York Islanders (Bernier will be better than present day Nabokov)
-Pittsburgh (shudders at the thought of Fleury)
-Florida (sounds like there are doubts about Markstrom)
-Tampa Bay (hey, Bernier, you could be the next contestant on goalie roulette!)
-Montreal (they love the Frenchies, and Carey Price can't leave the house)
-Toronto (Leiweke has first-hand experience with Bernier and Reimer is hit or miss)
-Buffalo (Miller on the move, less likely now that Enroth has re-upped)
-Carolina (Ward to be traded?)

That's like half the teams in the league, so it's not hard to see the at least 5 of them have zeroed in on Bernier during the auction. Getting a return like Couturier seems completely reasonable to me. For all of Bernier's "unproven" detractors, you're talking about a rushed prospect that had a 15 point, -8 season, yet I don't hear "unproven" constantly attached to his name...
Since u asked nicely here u go NYI's offer of a 1st, a 3rd, and Kirill Kabanov is still a good offer and i would be happy with this. As a far as ur 5th grade stuff goes read that post again the frist part come from a different poster then I. Also this is the net and really spelling and grammer who cares

Now with that said i agree with most of what u said couturier is a reasonable offer as well not the offer i like but very reasonable. Again NYI's offer of a 1st, a 3rd, and Kirill Kabanov would be the trade for me.

KingCanadain1976 is online now  
Old
06-20-2013, 02:37 PM
  #29
Muzzinga
Regehr GOAT
 
Muzzinga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 8,065
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
So if the Kings can't afford a roster player who makes over $1.5M cap hit in return for Bernier, then why wouldn't GM's tell Lombardi to take a hike with his demands and just wait to offer sheet Bernier?
Because then the 1 GM who doesn't tell him to take a hike wins the negotiation and gets Bernier

Muzzinga is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 02:38 PM
  #30
Darth Milbury
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Darth Milbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Searching for Kvasha
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 38,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowne Royale View Post
There should be a requirement for the boards that one must be able to communicate at a 5th grade level; if you can't spell the names of your star players, it's not likely you can reason your way through a trade. Waiting for the next mention of NYI's offer of a 1st, a 3rd, and Kirill Kabanov...

Anyways, when you analyze the goalie market, I think it's pretty easy to see that Bernier's the best choice. Of the prospect goalies, he's the most refined (Raanta, Khudobin), a Cup winner, an 11th overall pick, and groomed in a good organizational culture with Ranford overseeing his development. He's got really good stats with irregular playing time, so they're likely to get better with more playing time, all things equal.

Overall, he's cheaper than the big-name free agents like Smith and Backstrom. With Smith, there's the risk of him returning to his Tampa performance, and being stuck with Bryzgalov 2.0. Backstrom is on the downside of his career, and is likely going back to Minnesota, plus he's hurt 25% of the time. Nabokov is nothing more than a short-term stopgap, same with Vokoun.

On the trade market, you've got Ryan "Loose Lips" Miller who's also in the decline and expensive. On top of that, Ward might be available, but he's no better than Miller at this stage in his career. I'm not even going to propose Luongo as a viable option due to his contract, the fact the Vancouver didn't move him when they had the chance, and that people generally dislike the Canucks and other GMs are probably getting a kick out of Gillis looking like a complete tool.

Then you've got the possibility of Bryzgalov hitting the market, but that would require an organization taking a risk in terms of distraction and culture influence; I'd think it would have to be a small-market team.

So, when you consider the options on the market, Bernier is the only option that's cheap (big concern with the cap coming down), proven he can handle the load, entering his prime, and will thrive in a new role with a new team. Or, at least, that's the projection.

Then, when you look at the teams who have goaltending issues:

-Colorado (Varlamov has mostly been a bust)
-Calgary (Kipper to retire?)
-Minnesota (Backstrom to come back?)
-Edmonton (Dubnyk is eeeeeehhhhhh)
-Phoenix (big hole if Smith leaves)
-Philadelphia (to buy-out or not to buy-out)
-New Jersey (heir apparent to Brodeur?)
-New York Islanders (Bernier will be better than present day Nabokov)
-Pittsburgh (shudders at the thought of Fleury)
-Florida (sounds like there are doubts about Markstrom)
-Tampa Bay (hey, Bernier, you could be the next contestant on goalie roulette!)
-Montreal (they love the Frenchies, and Carey Price can't leave the house)
-Toronto (Leiweke has first-hand experience with Bernier and Reimer is hit or miss)
-Buffalo (Miller on the move, less likely now that Enroth has re-upped)
-Carolina (Ward to be traded?)

That's like half the teams in the league, so it's not hard to see the at least 5 of them have zeroed in on Bernier during the auction. Getting a return like Couturier seems completely reasonable to me. For all of Bernier's "unproven" detractors, you're talking about a rushed prospect that had a 15 point, -8 season, yet I don't hear "unproven" constantly attached to his name...

There is a tremendous amount of wild speculation here. Ward hasn't been traded, Buffalo still has Miller, Montreal is not giving up on Price so quick. And, if all of those teams did make moves, then that would be real bad for LA. It would mean that Bernier's trade value must be measured up against the value of Price et al. And, frankly, his value is not even in that universe.

And, then you add in the likelihood that Lombardi does not want him in the West.

It comes down to the Isles, Leafs, MAYBE the Flyers, and MAYBE (but probably not) the Cats.

Darth Milbury is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 02:41 PM
  #31
bennysflyers16
Registered User
 
bennysflyers16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 18,013
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
When was the last time an RFA received mutiple offer sheets? As far as I know, it has never happened. Offer sheets are relatively rare. In this case, you've got a good goalie who a few days may be intereseted in, but let's not get beyond the facts here. Maybe he gets an offer sheet because the Kings are so vulnerable (in terms of being too near the cap to counter). But, that is far from being certain.

And, btw, if the Isles or any other team acquires him, that would not preclude an offer sheet. The Isles could trade for his rights, and then Philly or Toronto could sign him to an offer sheet the very next day.

This is the reason I think no one will offer anything of substance. I think FLyers or Isles will offer sheet JB and force the Kings hands.


Last edited by spiny norman: 06-21-2013 at 02:19 AM. Reason: [/B][/QUOTE]
bennysflyers16 is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 02:45 PM
  #32
Rorschach
Fearful Symmetry
 
Rorschach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 6,666
vCash: 500
Matt Read, one year from UFA without an extension, has the value of a 4th round pick right now. No matter if you're on the side of Bernier is unproven so he's only worth a 2nd or Bernier will be elite or at least enough GMs think so so they will pay, Bernier'a value is WAY greater than Read's.

Rorschach is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 02:45 PM
  #33
dawkins121
Registered User
 
dawkins121's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 2,415
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinghock View Post
OK, I got it. We will not have 3-4 million in 2014 and Read will walk free.
As result we traded Bernier for one year of Read and 2014 mid-round pick.
Do you call it good asset management?
For a team that just won the Cup last year and made it to the Conference Finals this year, Kings fans seem awful reluctant to jump at the chance to improve their team immediately. A backup goalie for a 2 way forward that you can slot anywhere in the top 9? Maybe not perfect asset management but pretty good roster management...

dawkins121 is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 02:45 PM
  #34
etherialone
dialed in your mom
 
etherialone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Ether
Country: United Nations
Posts: 12,990
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
No, if I remember correctly... you and others were adamant that Lombardi would match a 2nd round compensation offer sheet NO MATTER WHAT, salary cap be damned. Now it's a different tune. I'm having a hard time following the inconsistency of arguments in this whole Bernier thread saga. So which is it? Will Lombardi definitely match or not? It seemed like yesterday that the salary cap was of little consideration and that Bernier's on ice ability was the sole reason why he warranted a high return. Today, the salary cap seems to be center stage when discussing the possible returns for Bernier.
That isn't entirely correct.

The Kings will match any offer sheet that would only net us a second round pick which means that if a team made an offer sheet of less than $3.364.091m we would match it. That is what we have been saying and for the most part only that and I don't remember anyone saying anything like "salary be damned".


From what DL has said recently and JB has himself said yesterday I think we can count on that as being the truth. Salary cap doesn't matter in the return for JB so long as it fits in with our team plans both this coming season and down the road.

It is something that must be considered. It can be both and not one or the other. We can use the amount of salary owed any player we would be receiving in a return for JB as part of several determining factors for part of the value of the player or players.

It seems super easy when I see it but it sure seems to rile some people up for reasons I don't understand.

If a team wants to wait and attempt an OS then the worst the Kings can do is get a return of a 1st and a 3rd pick. If the Isles say want to wait to see if they can get JB on an offer sheet they will end up giving up a 1st and a 3rd in 14 for JB. I don't see Snow doing this but it is a fair example. I also don't see DL allowing things to come down to this either.

If it looks like he can't get a deal for JB done (which is very very unlikely) before 7/5 then he will sign him and deal him next summer. Read JB's interview from yesterday if you want to see how both he and DL feel about the situation. It basically says that the Kings will move JB if it works out for both parties and if not JB will remain with the Kings until they can move him for a fair value.

Look at it this way, it is worth at the very least a second round pick for the Kings to try and maintain the best goaltending tandem in the league for the coming season or three so they would obviously match any offer sheet that would only bring that sort of return back.

That said, it is also makes sense to match any reasonable offer sheet (at or not much over the $3.364.091) that would return us a 1st and 3rd in 14 and just let JB walk when he reaches UFA status.

We are in a win now mode and while JB is ready and wants to be a starter and DL wants to reward the guy for his loyalty by sending him somewhere that he can get his shot having the best goalie tandem in the league only makes us that much better and capable of remaining one of the contenders for the cup.

The return has to be good enough for us to weaken our team in net by letting JB go. If we solidify a forward spot it has to be for a good enough player to warrant what we will be losing in net. That part seems so easy to see.


Last edited by etherialone: 06-20-2013 at 02:54 PM.
etherialone is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 02:47 PM
  #35
Mats26
Cup Champs
 
Mats26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 492
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
And what if the offer for Read and the pick is the best offer? And then what if Bernier DOES come out and demand a trade and refuses to re-sign with LA. What then? Then the OS becomes a possibility...one with a 3 million dollar cost for a back-up. Does that make sense?

Or what if LA tries to wait then the other teams look elsewhere. Between now a July 5th, there are lots of options. After July 5th, with UFA's on the market, the options will deminish.

And what if you read this article on ESPN:


Im still part of the L.A. Kings and its been a great ride, but I feel really confident and I want to get to the next level to get a real chance to hopefully be a No. 1 somewhere, Bernier told ESPN.com over the phone Wednesday. Im sure the Kings will make the right decision. If Im staying there, Im staying there. If not, Im ready for the challenge.

General manager Dean Lombardi indicated to Bernier that he would try to accommodate him if its a deal that makes sense for the Kings. The whole trade talk scenario is a new experience for Bernier.

Its actually exciting, Bernier said. But I really cant control anything. Its up to Dean. If theres the right trade for him, Im sure hell make the right call.

"I spoke with Dean at the end of the season, and he told me he can keep me there but also feels he kind of owed me the chance to be somewhere else [as a starter]. So I guess well know in the next few weeks.


Sounds like Deano is getting what he wants or we resign Bernier. We'll have more time to trade him during the season or prior to camp. And no....Bernier is not "demanding" a trade or he sits, he simply wants to be challenged for the number 1 spot and DL is trying to accomodate this by trade.

Mats26 is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 02:49 PM
  #36
Perro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,627
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinghock View Post
Do you remember we will need to resign Brown and Greene next year?
Yup. I think Greene will not get much of a raise. Obviously depending on this year's performance.
Brown can tack on 2 Mil ish to his salary. However I imagine the cap will go up more than enough to cover that.
Mitchell's contract will be coming off the books, and although he can get put on LTIR this year that cannot happen till the start of the season, so his cap hit counts from now till then. So it hurts what LA can spend in the off season.

Perro is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 02:49 PM
  #37
Trolfoli
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,457
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
No, if I remember correctly... you and others were adamant that Lombardi would match a 2nd round compensation offer sheet NO MATTER WHAT, salary cap be damned. Now it's a different tune. I'm having a hard time following the inconsistency of arguments in this whole Bernier thread saga. So which is it? Will Lombardi definitely match or not? It seemed like yesterday that the salary cap was of little consideration and that Bernier's on ice ability was the sole reason why he warranted a high return. Today, the salary cap seems to be center stage when discussing the possible returns for Bernier.
I believe the kings would match any offer under 3 million that wouldn't bring back a 1st. At 3 million they would take an offersheet. This won't happen because Bernier will be traded b4 that.

The king are going to be right at the cap next year and should be looking at competing in the playoffs. Spending 3 mill on a back up goalie doesn't make sense with the cap coming down. This would mean the loss of a Stoll/brown/scuderi type player to keep Bernier.

Also the kings are working on signing Scuderi/Penner around 6.75 million in cap hit for both. So if the kings lose 1 or both there is plenty of cap space. A lot here depends on what happens with those 2 players.

Read's issue is that he is going to be a UFA after 1 year. Why not just wait one year if the kings like Read and go after him as a UFA?

Trolfoli is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 02:50 PM
  #38
Curufinwe
Registered User
 
Curufinwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: New Zealand
Posts: 8,987
vCash: 500
Does LA have anyone who might be bought out?

Curufinwe is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 02:52 PM
  #39
MeatCat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 70
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
When was the last time an RFA received mutiple offer sheets? As far as I know, it has never happened. Offer sheets are relatively rare. In this case, you've got a good goalie who a few days may be intereseted in, but let's not get beyond the facts here. Maybe he gets an offer sheet because the Kings are so vulnerable (in terms of being too near the cap to counter). But, that is far from being certain.

And, btw, if the Isles or any other team acquires him, that would not preclude an offer sheet. The Isles could trade for his rights, and then Philly or Toronto could sign him to an offer sheet the very next day.

This is the reason I think no one will offer anything of substance. I think FLyers or Isles will offer sheet JB and force the Kings hands.
A player can receive multiple offer sheets but he has to sign one for it to mean anything. This is why the deal gets done ASAP and the receiving team has time to negotiate before 7/5


Last edited by spiny norman: 06-21-2013 at 02:20 AM. Reason: [/B][/QUOTE]
MeatCat is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 02:52 PM
  #40
Perro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,627
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawkins121 View Post
For a team that just won the Cup last year and made it to the Conference Finals this year, Kings fans seem awful reluctant to jump at the chance to improve their team immediately. A backup goalie for a 2 way forward that you can slot anywhere in the top 9? Maybe not perfect asset management but pretty good roster management...
I still like the deal, and think that it would be a good gamble for him to re-sign.

Perro is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 02:53 PM
  #41
Perro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,627
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Does LA have anyone who might be bought out?
Not that I think would make sense.

Perro is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 02:53 PM
  #42
AWL
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 51
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
No, if I remember correctly... you and others were adamant that Lombardi would match a 2nd round compensation offer sheet NO MATTER WHAT, salary cap be damned. Now it's a different tune. I'm having a hard time following the inconsistency of arguments in this whole Bernier thread saga. So which is it? Will Lombardi definitely match or not? It seemed like yesterday that the salary cap was of little consideration and that Bernier's on ice ability was the sole reason why he warranted a high return. Today, the salary cap seems to be center stage when discussing the possible returns for Bernier.
I don't see the confusion. As a philosophical matter, Lombardi's been pretty clear he's one of those GM's that will match offer sheets at almost whatever cost. Otherwise, he's appearing weak and will make himself more vulnerable (in the eyes of the other GM's) to additional offer sheets in the future. That doesn't mean matching is his preferred outcome, only that he feels that stance is necessary to prevent future offer sheets as much as possible.

Under the current circumstances, the better outcome, of course, is to trade Bernier before his restricted free agency kicks in. That will give Lombardi more control over what happens not only with Bernier and the assets he returns, but also re-signing other free agents and perhaps further wheeling and dealing. And that's where salary cap considerations become increasingly important. Picks, prospects and young NHL'ers on ELC's offer better cap flexibility going forward.

There's no real inconsistency. Plan A is to trade Bernier soon for a suitable return. If that isn't possible, then Plan B will be to continue trade talks after Bernier enters restricted free agency. If Bernier signs an offer sheet, then Plan C would be to evaluate the available options. I suspect Lombardi might initiate trade talks with the other team to see if he could extract additional assets in order to decline matching. If that fails, I have every expectation that he'll match if the compensation is a mere second-round pick, and he'll decline to match if the compensation is higher. Sounds like a solid plan to me.

AWL is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 02:56 PM
  #43
Perro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,627
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhino 350 View Post
I believe the kings would match any offer under 3 million that wouldn't bring back a 1st. At 3 million they would take an offersheet. This won't happen because Bernier will be traded b4 that.

The king are going to be right at the cap next year and should be looking at competing in the playoffs. Spending 3 mill on a back up goalie doesn't make sense with the cap coming down. This would mean the loss of a Stoll/brown/scuderi type player to keep Bernier.

Also the kings are working on signing Scuderi/Penner around 6.75 million in cap hit for both. So if the kings lose 1 or both there is plenty of cap space. A lot here depends on what happens with those 2 players.

Read's issue is that he is going to be a UFA after 1 year. Why not just wait one year if the kings like Read and go after him as a UFA?
Because he may not make it to market (re-sign with philly) and because he could be used this year. Fits the cap perfect and plays position of need.


Last edited by spiny norman: 06-21-2013 at 02:20 AM. Reason: [/B][/QUOTE]
Perro is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 03:00 PM
  #44
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ont. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,305
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
That isn't entirely correct.

The Kings will match any offer sheet that would only net us a second round pick which means that if a team made an offer sheet of less than $3.364.091m we would match it. That is what we have been saying and for the most part only that and I don't remember anyone saying anything like "salary be damned".


From what DL has said recently and JB has himself said yesterday I think we can count on that as being the truth. Salary cap doesn't matter in the return for JB so long as it fits in with our team plans both this coming season and down the road.

It is something that must be considered. It can be both and not one or the other. We can use the amount of salary owed any player we would be receiving in a return for JB as part of several determining factors for part of the value of the player or players.

It seems super easy when I see it but it sure seems to rile some people up for reasons I don't understand.

If a team wants to wait and attempt an OS then the worst the Kings can do is get a return of a 1st and a 3rd pick. If the Isles say want to wait to see if they can get JB on an offer sheet they will end up giving up a 1st and a 3rd in 14 for JB. I don't see Snow doing this but it is a fair example. I also don't see DL allowing things to come down to this either.

If it looks like he can't get a deal for JB done (which is very very unlikely) before 7/5 then he will sign him and deal him next summer. Read JB's interview from yesterday if you want to see how both he and DL feel about the situation. It basically says that the Kings will move JB if it works out for both parties and if not JB will remain with the Kings until they can move him for a fair value.

Look at it this way, it is worth at the very least a second round pick for the Kings to try and maintain the best goaltending tandem in the league for the coming season or three so they would obviously match any offer sheet that would only bring that sort of return back.

That said, it is also makes sense to match any reasonable offer sheet (at or not much over the $3.364.091) that would return us a 1st and 3rd in 14 and just let JB walk when he reaches UFA status.

We are in a win now mode and while JB is ready and wants to be a starter and DL wants to reward the guy for his loyalty by sending him somewhere that he can get his shot having the best goalie tandem in the league only makes us that much better and capable of remaining one of the contenders for the cup.

The return has to be good enough for us to weaken our team in net by letting JB go. If we solidify a forward spot it has to be for a good enough player to warrant what we will be losing in net. That part seems so easy to see.
well said and totally agree. I do have a question for u tg with your knowledge of the kids coming in this years draft you do you see being available at 15 ( the islander pick ) and 21 the leaf pick that the kings would pick. If you can give me a rundown of who and pro con of the people ( a choice of two would awesome) So i could decide if the leaf pic would be good enuff .

KingCanadain1976 is online now  
Old
06-20-2013, 03:00 PM
  #45
Buddy The Elf
Kings!
 
Buddy The Elf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Belmont Shore
Country: United States
Posts: 9,937
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
So if the Kings can't afford a roster player who makes over $1.5M cap hit in return for Bernier, then why wouldn't GM's tell Lombardi to take a hike with his demands and just wait to offer sheet Bernier? It'll be a 2nd round pick. What's stopping them from stripping Lombardi of all his leverage and doing that?

I'm confused because I kept reading that Lombardi will match no matter what if it's for a 2nd rounder. Now, I'm seeing that any return for Bernier needs to (preferably) be around $1.5M or below because the cap situation.
Both items in your last paragraph are probably true. Not sure why they both can't be?

Why didn't the Flyers wait until July 5th to sign Mark Streit? GM's can wait to make an offer sheet and more than likely he won't be there by July 5th so whether or not DL will match the offer is probably moot. Since there is more than one team that is likely interested, waiting isn't probably the best course of action if these teams really want the player (just like in the case of every impending UFA traded in the offseason). If they want the player, they are probably going to have to offer up something in trade prior to July 5th.

The ideal situation is probably for the Kings to get either a cheap roster player with potential or to get prospect(s)/pick(s) in return. They CAN afford him if he were to sign an offersheet in the 2nd rounder compensation level. They'd probably prefer not to.

I don't see what is so hard to wrap your arms around. The Kings more than likely want him moved before July 5th to elimate the offersheet possibility. They'd also like cheap contracts or prospects/picks in return. When there is more than one team bidding, it is likely they'll get a return that fits their parameters.

Buddy The Elf is online now  
Old
06-20-2013, 03:03 PM
  #46
Rorschach
Fearful Symmetry
 
Rorschach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 6,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinghock View Post
Do you remember we will need to resign Brown and Greene next year?
Thank you. This is exactly the rational sort of thought we need.

Rorschach is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 03:04 PM
  #47
etherialone
dialed in your mom
 
etherialone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Ether
Country: United Nations
Posts: 12,990
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
well said and totally agree. I do have a question for u tg with your knowledge of the kids coming in this years draft you do you see being available at 15 ( the islander pick ) and 21 the leaf pick that the kings would pick. If you can give me a rundown of who and pro con of the people ( a choice of two would awesome) So i could decide if the leaf pic would be good enuff .
Sure can but I will put it on our boards if that's cool with you in our Bernier thread. Clutters things up here but I think that if the Leafs 21 was on the table that there are 4 players that come to mind who would be great for us. At 15th Mantha could be there and that would be great. Its also why I would be really surprised to see the Isles move the pick.

etherialone is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 03:06 PM
  #48
Buddy The Elf
Kings!
 
Buddy The Elf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Belmont Shore
Country: United States
Posts: 9,937
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Does LA have anyone who might be bought out?
That is highly unlikely. Willie Mitchell might have been a possibility but as I understand it, he is on IR and that is not a possibility for a player on IR. If he weren't injured, the Kings wouldn't want to buy him out. Then there is Stoll who probably actually has some trade value should the Kings want to get rid of him and free up cap space. So in short, no, the Kings have a pretty good salary structure on their roster and there really isn't any dead weight.

Buddy The Elf is online now  
Old
06-20-2013, 03:08 PM
  #49
KingsFan7824
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Does LA have anyone who might be bought out?
The simple answer is no.

Depends on who you ask though. Some fans might want Stoll gone. Others Regehr. Others both. Neither will happen, at least through next season.

Lombardi has been big on keeping the team that's been on the ice over the last two years together. If the cap wasn't going down, and Scuderi wanted to stay in LA, Lombardi would get it done. He'd probably even bring Penner back, even though he's been a no-show in the regular season for the Kings.

Mitchell has been hurt, so he can't be bought out. If he's able to play, he wouldn't be bought out anyway.

Anyone else on that team that makes enough money for a buy out to mean anything to the cap is too important to the success of the team.

KingsFan7824 is online now  
Old
06-20-2013, 03:08 PM
  #50
kinghock
Registered User
 
kinghock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Mahwah,NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 731
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
As of right now, you have almost 19M in cap space for the 2014-15 season. Is 3 million really that much for a two-way forward who can snipe?
19M in cap space for 2014 do not count 8 free agents we need to sign this year and Brown and Greene next year.

kinghock is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:51 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.