HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Jonathan Bernier Race Down to 3 Teams (TOR, PHI, MIN)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-20-2013, 03:10 PM
  #51
Perro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,981
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
Thank you. This is exactly the rational sort of thought we need.
On the kings board there is argument about brown's next contract but I think expecting a 2 mil increase is fair, however I also think the cap will rise by more than that as it is tied to revenues. 6 outdoor games will speed this up.
Greene will make about the same around 3mil.
There will be room for Read in the future. Not like he will be getting a gigantic increase.

Perro is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 03:13 PM
  #52
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
 
KingCanadain1976's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Thunder Bay Ont. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,685
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Sure can but I will put it on our boards if that's cool with you in our Bernier thread. Clutters things up here but I think that if the Leafs 21 was on the table that there are 4 players that come to mind who would be great for us. At 15th Mantha could be there and that would be great. Its also why I would be really surprised to see the Isles move the pick.
Sounds good to me Yeah i knew mantha is high on ur list thats why I'm surprized your beating the read drum so much but yeah over on our boards is great and a big thank you in advance.

KingCanadain1976 is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 03:14 PM
  #53
SolidSnakeUS
Registered User
 
SolidSnakeUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Pipersville, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 31,137
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perro View Post
On the kings board there is argument about brown's next contract but I think expecting a 2 mil increase is fair, however I also think the cap will rise by more than that as it is tied to revenues. 6 outdoor games will speed this up.
Greene will make about the same around 3mil.
There will be room for Read in the future. Not like he will be getting a gigantic increase.
Plus the rumor going around about the cap going up for the 2014-15 season as well would fit Read easily.

SolidSnakeUS is online now  
Old
06-20-2013, 03:17 PM
  #54
Kurrilino
Go Stoll Go
 
Kurrilino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,533
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Kurrilino
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Read for Bernier straight up still makes sense.
not for the kings anymore.

The price went through the roof

Kurrilino is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 03:25 PM
  #55
Djp
Registered User
 
Djp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Seattle,WA
Posts: 6,375
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perro View Post
On the kings board there is argument about brown's next contract but I think expecting a 2 mil increase is fair, however I also think the cap will rise by more than that as it is tied to revenues. 6 outdoor games will speed this up.
Greene will make about the same around 3mil.
There will be room for Read in the future. Not like he will be getting a gigantic increase.
I dont see the cap going up that much....

Remmember players share also is counted for the salaries of players on LTIR and compliance buyouts.

For the cap to go up the median/mean team salary needs to go up. then from that median/mean its +/- 15%

Djp is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 03:27 PM
  #56
kinghock
Registered User
 
kinghock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Mahwah,NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 732
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perro View Post
On the kings board there is argument about brown's next contract but I think expecting a 2 mil increase is fair, however I also think the cap will rise by more than that as it is tied to revenues. 6 outdoor games will speed this up. Greene will make about the same around 3mil. There will be room for Read in the future. Not like he will be getting a gigantic increase.
How can you estimate the cap will be raised to specific number?
How can you estimate that Read will not be getting a gigantic increase from his 900k?
You can predict a future or just wishing?

kinghock is online now  
Old
06-20-2013, 03:29 PM
  #57
Perro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,981
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djp View Post
I dont see the cap going up that much....

Remmember players share also is counted for the salaries of players on LTIR and compliance buyouts.

For the cap to go up the median/mean team salary needs to go up. then from that median/mean its +/- 15%
What did the cap go up the year after the last lockout? I remember thinking it was BS.
I think it will go up at least 3mil. Just a gut feeling though.

Perro is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 03:31 PM
  #58
Richie10
Registered User
 
Richie10's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,853
vCash: 500
Kings fans aren't being delusional or unreasonable when they say Lombardi will match a <3.1 offer sheet. That's just the way Lombardi works. If things got to that point (which I don't believe they will) Lombardi will absolutely match that kind of offer sheet. Lombardi has a very strong personal and philosophical stance on offer sheets and his outspoken nature on the topic has arguably scared teams away from our RFAs for years now. You don't think teams thought about signing Doughty to a massive offer sheet during his holdout? Come on.

The Kings will have a little over $3 million in cap space with all of their other RFAs tendered qualifying offers. Only Voynov was due a big raise and he got it.

It Lombardi is forced into a corner with an offer sheet, he'll just sign it and stick with his current LWs (Brown, King, Clifford, and Pearson/Vey/whoever). Knowing Lombardi he already thinks the team will be better next year with Toffoli in the lineup full time and a back-to-form Quick. He wouldn't balk from matching the offer sheet, keeping Quick/Bernier as the tandem for at least another year, and rolling with our youth. And then he'd go hard after whoever gave Bernier the offer sheet.

All this talk about offer sheets only reminds me of how many posters here live in this fantasy hockey land. Offer sheets don't happen a lot because they damage relationships around the league significantly. Was it worth it for Shea Weber? Thomas Vanek in 2007? Sure, but these were marquee players at the times of the offer sheets. Will a team really be willing to risk an offer sheet on a player like Bernier? I highly, highly doubt it.

Richie10 is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 03:31 PM
  #59
Perro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,981
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinghock View Post
How can you estimate the cap will be raised to specific number?
How can you estimate that Read will not be getting a gigantic increase from his 900k?
You can predict a future or just wishing?
How can you predict it won't. It went up huge after the 04 lockout I believe. I highly doubt that read goes from 900k to anything north of 3mil. Are you saying that you think he will?

Perro is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 03:35 PM
  #60
kinghock
Registered User
 
kinghock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Mahwah,NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 732
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perro View Post
What did the cap go up the year after the last lockout? I remember thinking it was BS.
I think it will go up at least 3mil. Just a gut feeling though.
3mil hopefully will cover increases for Brown and Greene and do not leave any space for Read increase. Letís leave Read with Philadelphia.

kinghock is online now  
Old
06-20-2013, 03:41 PM
  #61
Trolfoli
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,535
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perro View Post
Because he may not make it to market (re-sign with philly) and because he could be used this year. Fits the cap perfect and plays position of need.
I'm just not all that excited about Read...... Could Read contribute a spark to the offense.. sure... My guess DL would probably be more interested in some other players over Read... King gets starts over Richardson.... DL could reverse trend, just don't see it happening


Last edited by spiny norman: 06-21-2013 at 02:21 AM. Reason: corrected quoting
Trolfoli is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 03:46 PM
  #62
kinghock
Registered User
 
kinghock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Mahwah,NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 732
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perro View Post
How can you predict it won't. It went up huge after the 04 lockout I believe. I highly doubt that read goes from 900k to anything north of 3mil. Are you saying that you think he will?

1. You are calling 3mil increase huge?
2. It seems very reasonable that Read goes from 900k to anything north of 3mil.
3. The main reason Philadelphia want to trade him is high probability of this happening.
They will be much less incline to trade him if his 900k salary was extended for three more years.

kinghock is online now  
Old
06-20-2013, 03:49 PM
  #63
Darth Milbury
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Darth Milbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Searching for Kvasha
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 38,776
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie10 View Post
All this talk about offer sheets only reminds me of how many posters here live in this fantasy hockey land. Offer sheets don't happen a lot because they damage relationships around the league significantly. Was it worth it for Shea Weber? Thomas Vanek in 2007? Sure, but these were marquee players at the times of the offer sheets. Will a team really be willing to risk an offer sheet on a player like Bernier? I highly, highly doubt it.
The NHL is not a schoolyard. Nobody cares about "damaging relationships." Garth Snow would give an offer sheet in a minute if he thought it would make good sense for building the Isles, and he certainly would not care if Lombardi was pissed off about it.

And, I doubt that Lombardi would take it all that personally either. Its a legitimate strategy for acquiring players allowed by the CBA. Not some kind of "dirty trick." It is no different than signing UFAs away from another team.

The real reason GMs avoid offer sheets has nothing to do with a high school like social dynamic. Its just not an effective strategy for acquiring players. Nine times of 10, the other team will match. And, when they don't match, you are essentially paying a player a UFA salary (which means more $ than they are worth) while still surrendering valuable assets.

I really don't expect any team to sign Bernier to an offer sheet, but I also don't agree that GMs will avoid offer sheets because they are worried about angering the almighty Lombardi.

Personally, I don't see a conservative, cash-strapped GM like Garth Snow going anywhere near an offer sheet. If there is a deal out there that makes sense, and the $ work, he'll pull the trigger.

__________________
Man, do I ever miss Oleg Kvasha. If Oleg was here, everything would be OK.
Darth Milbury is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 04:02 PM
  #64
Rorschach
Fearful Symmetry
 
Rorschach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 6,728
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perro View Post
On the kings board there is argument about brown's next contract but I think expecting a 2 mil increase is fair, however I also think the cap will rise by more than that as it is tied to revenues. 6 outdoor games will speed this up.
Greene will make about the same around 3mil.
There will be room for Read in the future. Not like he will be getting a gigantic increase.
I'm not going to disagree with you. All I'm saying is those guys' contracts need to be considered for next year, which I believe the poster I was replying to is also saying.

Rorschach is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 04:07 PM
  #65
SolidSnakeUS
Registered User
 
SolidSnakeUS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Pipersville, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 31,137
vCash: 500
For the Kings,

RFAs/UFAs for 2013 off-season that are up for contracts:

Clifford (RFA)
Lewis (RFA)
Nolan (RFA)
Penner (UFA)
Richardson (UFA)
Martinez (RFA)
Ellerby (RFA)
Muzzin (RFA)
Scuderi (UFA)
Bernier (RFA)

RFAs/UFAs for 2014 off-season that are up for contracts:

Brown (UFA)
Fraser (UFA)
King (RFA)
Mitchell (UFA)
Greene (UFA)
Vey (RFA)

Now for these players, how much would get in cap hit per year or which ones would go? If the cap does go up by 3M in the 2014 off-season, you would have almost 22M in cap space to go with.

SolidSnakeUS is online now  
Old
06-20-2013, 04:08 PM
  #66
Rorschach
Fearful Symmetry
 
Rorschach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 6,728
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinghock View Post
1. You are calling 3mil increase huge?
2. It seems very reasonable that Read goes from 900k to anything north of 3mil.
3. The main reason Philadelphia want to trade him is high probability of this happening.
They will be much less incline to trade him if his 900k salary was extended for three more years.
Again, agree. We definitely don't need a 3 mil bottom six guy and it doesn't look like we can afford another 3 mil top six guy when we have Toffoli. Especially a player of Read's size and of Read's age...for 3 mil we can probably re-sign Penner, proven playoff performer of excellent size. I don't like trading for a guy and tripling his salary when he looks to be of an age where e has no more vertical upside. That kind of money we give to Voynov or In the future Toffoli.

Rorschach is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 04:14 PM
  #67
Nolanitis
Registered User
 
Nolanitis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 1,872
vCash: 500
Still think Bernier is going to be an Islander next year. Nino and ? I guess a 2nd or 3rd round '14 pick.

Nolanitis is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 04:18 PM
  #68
LombardiTool
Registered User
 
LombardiTool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Fontana, Ca
Country: United States
Posts: 2,771
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nolanitis View Post
Still think Bernier is going to be an Islander next year. Nino and ? I guess a 2nd or 3rd round '14 pick.
There is no doubt in my mind that Nino is NOT a Lombardi type of guy. I am positive that there will never be a deal between the Kings and the Islanders surrounding him.

LombardiTool is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 04:22 PM
  #69
Rorschach
Fearful Symmetry
 
Rorschach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 6,728
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LombardiTool View Post
There is no doubt in my mind that Nino is NOT a Lombardi type of guy. I am positive that there will never be a deal between the Kings and the Islanders surrounding him.
You got that right. Unless Nino's value in the deal is of a sixth rounder, DL won't take him. He certainly won't ask for him, a guy with recent past head case issues.

Rorschach is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 04:29 PM
  #70
Mats26
Cup Champs
 
Mats26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 494
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
The NHL is not a schoolyard. Nobody cares about "damaging relationships." Garth Snow would give an offer sheet in a minute if he thought it would make good sense for building the Isles, and he certainly would not care if Lombardi was pissed off about it.

And, I doubt that Lombardi would take it all that personally either. Its a legitimate strategy for acquiring players allowed by the CBA. Not some kind of "dirty trick." It is no different than signing UFAs away from another team.

The real reason GMs avoid offer sheets has nothing to do with a high school like social dynamic. Its just not an effective strategy for acquiring players. Nine times of 10, the other team will match. And, when they don't match, you are essentially paying a player a UFA salary (which means more $ than they are worth) while still surrendering valuable assets.

I really don't expect any team to sign Bernier to an offer sheet, but I also don't agree that GMs will avoid offer sheets because they are worried about angering the almighty Lombardi.

Personally, I don't see a conservative, cash-strapped GM like Garth Snow going anywhere near an offer sheet. If there is a deal out there that makes sense, and the $ work, he'll pull the trigger.


Well..... we are losing Scuderi and with Willie on LTIR gives us 11 million to play with.
Harmonic looks real real nice...How about a nice offer sheet from the Kings. It's not dirty, just playing by the rules.

Mats26 is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 04:38 PM
  #71
Rorschach
Fearful Symmetry
 
Rorschach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 6,728
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
The NHL is not a schoolyard. Nobody cares about "damaging relationships." Garth Snow would give an offer sheet in a minute if he thought it would make good sense for building the Isles, and he certainly would not care if Lombardi was pissed off about it.

And, I doubt that Lombardi would take it all that personally either. Its a legitimate strategy for acquiring players allowed by the CBA. Not some kind of "dirty trick." It is no different than signing UFAs away from another team.

The real reason GMs avoid offer sheets has nothing to do with a high school like social dynamic. Its just not an effective strategy for acquiring players. Nine times of 10, the other team will match. And, when they don't match, you are essentially paying a player a UFA salary (which means more $ than they are worth) while still surrendering valuable assets.

I really don't expect any team to sign Bernier to an offer sheet, but I also don't agree that GMs will avoid offer sheets because they are worried about angering the almighty Lombardi.

Personally, I don't see a conservative, cash-strapped GM like Garth Snow going anywhere near an offer sheet. If there is a deal out there that makes sense, and the $ work, he'll pull the trigger.
I agree with Snow not being financially wreckless...you can't blow money you don't have.

But if you mess with Lombardi with an offer sheet, you're not just messing with him. Many, many other GM's adhere to the same policies as he does and would declare open season. I wouldn't be surprised if Snow was one of those guys in that GM solidarity group.

Rorschach is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 04:42 PM
  #72
Darth Milbury
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Darth Milbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Searching for Kvasha
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 38,776
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats26 View Post
Well..... we are losing Scuderi and with Willie on LTIR gives us 11 million to play with.
Harmonic looks real real nice...How about a nice offer sheet from the Kings. It's not dirty, just playing by the rules.
Go ahead and sign Hamonic (not Harmonic, he is not a musical instrument) to an offer sheet. Isles will simply match.

But, no, that wouldn't be "dirty." It would be a legitimate strategy for building your team as per the CBA.

Darth Milbury is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 04:43 PM
  #73
Curufinwe
Registered User
 
Curufinwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: New Zealand
Posts: 9,522
vCash: 500
If sending an offer sheet would cause other GMs to declare open season, why has no Flyer RFA ever been offered and signed an offer sheet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...d_offer_sheets

Curufinwe is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 04:44 PM
  #74
Ho Borvat
Registered User
 
Ho Borvat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,885
vCash: 500
People are out of their mind if they think they will get Read/Nino/1st round picks for Steve Bernier.

Guy is a bum and barely an NHL 4th liner.


*not serious.

Ho Borvat is offline  
Old
06-20-2013, 04:47 PM
  #75
BigBrown
They did it again!
 
BigBrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 4,257
vCash: 500
I don't see the Kings keeping Bernier past the draft anyway, so I'm personally not worried about any potential offer sheets.

BigBrown is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:25 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.