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Jonathan Bernier Race Down to 3 Teams (TOR, PHI, MIN)

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06-20-2013, 03:47 PM
  #76
Darth Milbury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
I agree with Snow not being financially wreckless...you can't blow money you don't have.

But if you mess with Lombardi with an offer sheet, you're not just messing with him. Many, many other GM's adhere to the same policies as he does and would declare open season. I wouldn't be surprised if Snow was one of those guys in that GM solidarity group.

No offense, but this is the kind of attitude I'm talking about. Nobody is scared to "mess with Lombardi" and the idea that GMs are sitting up for each other in the lunch room is silly. All GMs recognize that they need to build their team in whatever way they can: waiver wire, UFAs, offer sheets, trade etc. And, every GM will exercise his ability to the best that he can. These guys are all professionals, and with the exception of a couple of loudmouths (like Brian Burke), I've seen no evidence for grudges following UFA or RFA signings.

GMs don't use offer sheets because it is a poor way of building a team. The other team will match, or your'll badly overpay and have to surrender nice assets. In the case of the Isles, a patient conservative GM like Snow is not likely to try that route because it just wouldn't make logical sense.

Its not because Lombardi is so tough that other GMs don't want to cross him. If Snow had the money and thought the $ and asset exchange would make work well, he'd sign Bernier as soon as possible. And, if that made Lombardi angry, they could always rumble on the playground afterward.

I agree with your basic perspective that the Isles won't offer sheet, I just don't agree with your rationale.


Last edited by Darth Milbury: 06-20-2013 at 04:05 PM.
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06-20-2013, 03:48 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
Go ahead and sign Hamonic (not Harmonic, he is not a musical instrument) to an offer sheet. Isles will simply match.

But, no, that wouldn't be "dirty." It would be a legitimate strategy for building your team as per the CBA.
Wang has no money....he simply won't match a 4 million per offer sheet.
Come to think of it, Bernier for Hamonic (not the music intrument) would make sense now. It's one OS for another. He has not signed any player yet, no goalie, no top D yet for next year, are u sweating a little....just a little.

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06-20-2013, 03:52 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
If sending an offer sheet would cause other GMs to declare open season, why has no Flyer RFA ever been offered and signed an offer sheet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...d_offer_sheets
Haven't the Flyers been pretty good about signing their players before they hit RFA? That would probably have something to do with it.

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06-20-2013, 03:55 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Mats26 View Post
Wang has no money....he simply won't match a 4 million per offer sheet.
And you know this for a fact how?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats26 View Post

Come to think of it, Bernier for Hamonic (not the music intrument) would make sense now. It's one OS for another. He has not signed any player yet, no goalie, no top D yet for next year, are u sweating a little....just a little.
When you want to be serious and engage in a conversation above an eighth grade level, lets us know.

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06-20-2013, 03:57 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by DimMak View Post
Haven't the Flyers been pretty good about signing their players before they hit RFA? That would probably have something to do with it.
That's the point. The way you preclude offer sheets is by managing your assets well, and then locking up guys so you are not vulnerable. Offer sheets don't happen not because GMs are in some of club or are scared of retribution. Its because of good management.

Lombardi won't lose players to offer sheets because he is just plain too smart.

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06-20-2013, 03:58 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
If sending an offer sheet would cause other GMs to declare open season, why has no Flyer RFA ever been offered and signed an offer sheet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...d_offer_sheets
Quote:
Originally Posted by DimMak View Post
Haven't the Flyers been pretty good about signing their players before they hit RFA? That would probably have something to do with it.
Because Homer gives them 10 year deals, tells them they'll be a Flyer for life, and then trades them before they can be offer sheeted?

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06-20-2013, 03:59 PM
  #82
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Because Homer gives them 10 year deals, tells them they'll be a Flyer for life, and then trades them before they can be offer sheeted?
Ouch. That one will leave a mark in the morning.

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06-20-2013, 04:02 PM
  #83
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I don't see the Kings keeping Bernier past the draft anyway, so I'm personally not worried about any potential offer sheets.
I agree with this...from everything I have read(Bernier's and DL quotes) and my gut tells me he will be moved before or at the draft....

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06-20-2013, 04:06 PM
  #84
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I'm not going to disagree with you. All I'm saying is those guys' contracts need to be considered for next year, which I believe the poster I was replying to is also saying.
I 100% agree that they need to be considered, but I also think that they will not hinder bringing in Read.

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06-20-2013, 04:08 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by driller1 View Post
Because Homer gives them 10 year deals, tells them they'll be a Flyer for life, and then trades them before they can be offer sheeted?
Yep, kinda like the Kings did with Jack Johnson.

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06-20-2013, 04:09 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by StrongIslanders90 View Post
I agree with this...from everything I have read(Bernier's and DL quotes) and my gut tells me he will be moved before or at the draft....
I think he will get traded two days after the cup is won, you know when Philly buys out Bryz.

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06-20-2013, 04:10 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
And you know this for a fact how?
Because you have an internal cap that you have to respect. He will never pay 4. Means you will need to play Poulin or prospect in net next year. You get a 1st and 3rd in 2014 not bad, then trade us Martin and a 2013 1st for Bernier and we are set.

Bernier 1st and 3rd 2014
Martin, Hamonic and Kings pick Mantha(2013 1st)


Last edited by spiny norman: 06-21-2013 at 01:22 AM. Reason: [/QUOTE]
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06-20-2013, 04:11 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Clyde Donovan View Post
Yep, kinda like the Kings did with Jack Johnson.
Have you ever heard the term "false equivalence"? This is one.

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06-20-2013, 04:15 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Mats26 View Post
Because you have an internal cap that you have to respect. He will never pay 4.
I don't have many concerns about Snow getting all his players under contract within the constraints of his spending limits. Wang is about to realize a cool 35 million each season in new revenue with the move to Brooklyn. So, they shouldn't have any trouble getting their two RFAs (Hamonic and Bailey) under contract.

I suppose anything could happen though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats26 View Post
Means you will need to play Poulin or prospect in net next year. You get a 1st and 3rd in 2014 not bad, then trade us Martin and a 2013 1st for Bernier and we are set.



Bernier 1st and 3rd 2014
Martin, Hamonic and Kings pick Mantha(2013 1st)

Sorry, but you are obviously just trying to troll here. I'm not playing.

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06-20-2013, 04:16 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
And, btw, if the Isles or any other team acquires him, that would not preclude an offer sheet. The Isles could trade for his rights, and then Philly or Toronto could sign him to an offer sheet the very next day.

This is the reason I think no one will offer anything of substance. I think FLyers or Isles will offer sheet JB and force the Kings hands.
if this were to happen, all of it, then the Isles or any other team that acquires him will just need to match the offer sheet, possible problem no longer a problem,


Last edited by spiny norman: 06-21-2013 at 01:23 AM. Reason: [/B][/QUOTE]
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06-20-2013, 04:20 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by apadilla View Post

if this were to happen, all of it, then the Isles or any other team that acquires him will just need to match the offer sheet, possible problem no longer a problem,
Let's say the Isles give the Kings good stuff for Bernier.

They they have to match a fat offer sheet from Philly.

So, now they've paid a high cost in terms of player assets to Bernier and also had to overpay him $ wise (if they could even afford to match an offer sheet from a big market team).

Not that I expect any of this to happen, but the point is that a trade by the Kings does not preclude an offer sheet.


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06-20-2013, 04:30 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
Let's say the Isles give the Kings good stuff for Bernier.

They they have to match a fat offer sheet from Philly.

So, now they've paid a high cost in terms of player assets to Bernier and also had to overpay him $ wise (if they could even afford to match an offer sheet from a big market team).

Not that I expect any of this to happen, but the point is that a trade by the Kings does not preclude an offer sheet.
this is true, and this is where a team's due diligence comes into play,

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06-20-2013, 04:35 PM
  #93
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Some people are going to be severely disappointed with the return for Bernier when/if he's traded.

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06-20-2013, 04:47 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Some people are going to be severely disappointed with the return for Bernier when/if he's traded.
And this will happen why ???

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06-20-2013, 04:49 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
Let's say the Isles give the Kings good stuff for Bernier.

They they have to match a fat offer sheet from Philly.

So, now they've paid a high cost in terms of player assets to Bernier and also had to overpay him $ wise (if they could even afford to match an offer sheet from a big market team).

Not that I expect any of this to happen, but the point is that a trade by the Kings does not preclude an offer sheet.
I would imagine if LA is asking for a lot from the Islanders DL would grant permission for them to speak with Benier's agent before making the deal. The Islanders would not trade if they would be worried about an offer sheet.

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06-20-2013, 04:53 PM
  #96
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And this will happen why ???
I don't understand the question. Are you asking why I think people will be disappointed with his return? If that's the case, it's because his value isn't what's being theorized here. He has little experience, playing behind one of the best defenses in the league. Can he be good? Yeah, but he doesn't hold the value that some people seem to believe he does, especially since he's prone to an offersheet. Is LA really willing to commit half their remaining cap space to a backup goaltender? Doubtful.

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06-20-2013, 05:10 PM
  #97
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I predict Deano will shock us all- none of the players mentioned will be involved and somehow the other team retaining salary will be part of the deal.

No basis for this hunch whatsoever, but sounds good in my head.

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06-20-2013, 05:10 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
Let's say the Isles give the Kings good stuff for Bernier.

They they have to match a fat offer sheet from Philly.

So, now they've paid a high cost in terms of player assets to Bernier and also had to overpay him $ wise (if they could even afford to match an offer sheet from a big market team).

Not that I expect any of this to happen, but the point is that a trade by the Kings does not preclude an offer sheet.
But if it was a huge offer sheet you would still get compensation. You would get the shot at signing your starter for the next 10 years and what looks to be an exceptional one at that and if you can't get it done for one reason or another you would still end up with a 1st and a 3rd in 14 at a minimum, right?

So you would effectively have ended up dealing your 1st this year for a 1st and a 3rd next year and if you don't get better goaltending you could easily end up picking around the same then?

I mean if we are going to speculate then why not go all the way with it?

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06-20-2013, 05:14 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Are you asking why I think people will be disappointed with his return? If that's the case, it's because his value isn't what's being theorized here. He has little experience, playing behind one of the best defenses in the league. Can he be good? Yeah, but he doesn't hold the value that some people seem to believe he does, especially since he's prone to an offersheet. Is LA really willing to commit half their remaining cap space to a backup goaltender? Doubtful.
Look at it this way, it is worth at the very least a second round pick for the Kings to try and maintain the best goaltending tandem in the league for the coming season or three so they would obviously match any offer sheet that would only bring that sort of return back.

That said, it is also makes sense to match any reasonable offer sheet (at or not much over the $3.364.091) that would return us a 1st and 3rd in 14 and just let JB walk when he reaches UFA status.

We are in a win now mode and while JB is ready and wants to be a starter and DL wants to reward the guy for his loyalty by sending him somewhere that he can get his shot, having the best goalie tandem in the league only makes us that much better and capable of remaining one of the contenders for the cup.

The return has to be good enough for us to weaken our team in net by letting JB go. If we solidify a forward spot it has to be for a good enough player to warrant what we will be losing in net. That part seems so easy to see.

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06-20-2013, 05:15 PM
  #100
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I don't understand the question. Are you asking why I think people will be disappointed with his return? If that's the case, it's because his value isn't what's being theorized here. He has little experience, playing behind one of the best defenses in the league. Can he be good? Yeah, but he doesn't hold the value that some people seem to believe he does, especially since he's prone to an offersheet. Is LA really willing to commit half their remaining cap space to a backup goaltender? Doubtful.
He will probably be traded and sign before players can be offer sheeted. And when was the last time a goaltender got an offer sheet?

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