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Jonathan Bernier Race Down to 3 Teams (TOR, PHI, MIN)

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06-20-2013, 05:19 PM
  #101
Vic Vinegar
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
I don't understand the question. Are you asking why I think people will be disappointed with his return? If that's the case, it's because his value isn't what's being theorized here. He has little experience, playing behind one of the best defenses in the league. Can he be good? Yeah, but he doesn't hold the value that some people seem to believe he does, especially since he's prone to an offersheet. Is LA really willing to commit half their remaining cap space to a backup goaltender? Doubtful.
What do you think people in this thread are valuing him at?

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06-20-2013, 05:35 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
You got that right. Unless Nino's value in the deal is of a sixth rounder, DL won't take him. He certainly won't ask for him, a guy with recent past head case issues.
Couldnt you say the same thing about motivation and conditioning with Penner. Im sure its taken into account when he evaluates trade possibilities. I think taking the chance on him is worth it with his high ceiling AND we'd have the 2nd round pick which our scouts are especially good with.

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06-20-2013, 06:23 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by LombardiTool View Post
There is no doubt in my mind that Nino is NOT a Lombardi type of guy. I am positive that there will never be a deal between the Kings and the Islanders surrounding him.
I call BS on this, Carter seemed to have entitlement issues in Columbus and that didn't stop Carter from being a "Lombardi kind of guy".

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06-20-2013, 06:29 PM
  #104
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I call BS on this, Carter seemed to have entitlement issues in Columbus and that didn't stop Carter from being a "Lombardi kind of guy".
Lombardi (and Hextall for that matter) knew Carter when they were both in the Flyers org. In fact, I remember Lombardi talking about how he had to drive a 19 or 220 year old Carter to practice when he was playing in the AHL since Carter didn't have a car. DL and Hexy had a much better sense of Carter's sense of team and work ethic than anything reported in the media.

Make no mistake, Carter was definitely a "Lombardi kind of guy".

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06-20-2013, 06:40 PM
  #105
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I'm going to guess that this bit of information of multiple teams sharing interest in Bernier might lead to a bit of a bidding war for his services. Not to the extent of giving up a significant player as part of the package, but I do believe that Lombardi is trying to work his way back into the 1st round of the draft and may do so by way of this trade.

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06-20-2013, 06:46 PM
  #106
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I just cant' understand this love affair with bernier, i don't even consider him as an upgrade compared to scrivens !! the only thing going for him is his previous draft status. Am i missing something here ?

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06-20-2013, 06:53 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
I don't understand the question. Are you asking why I think people will be disappointed with his return? If that's the case, it's because his value isn't what's being theorized here. He has little experience, playing behind one of the best defenses in the league. Can he be good? Yeah, but he doesn't hold the value that some people seem to believe he does, especially since he's prone to an offersheet. Is LA really willing to commit half their remaining cap space to a backup goaltender? Doubtful.
I really don't know what value do you or other people think he is carrying.
Lombardi is asking for an attacker around same age and same potantial.
+- a little bit on both sides.

I don't know what this has to do with overvaluing.
If nobody is giving Lombardi what he wants Bernier is staying.
Simple and plain

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06-20-2013, 07:00 PM
  #108
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Since I don't see Scrivens as much more than a backup, I'd certainly like Bernier on the Leafs when Reimer gets injured again or doesn't play like he has. Frattin and a 2nd? Yep

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06-20-2013, 07:01 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Highlander23 View Post
I just cant' understand this love affair with bernier, i don't even consider him as an upgrade compared to scrivens !! the only thing going for him is his previous draft status. Am i missing something here ?
Seriously, how many games have you watched Bernier play?

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06-20-2013, 07:02 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Mats26 View Post
Wang has no money....he simply won't match a 4 million per offer sheet.
Come to think of it, Bernier for Hamonic (not the music intrument) would make sense now. It's one OS for another. He has not signed any player yet, no goalie, no top D yet for next year, are u sweating a little....just a little.
No, your not getting Hamonic for Bernier unless you add a significant piece. And I would imagine Hamonic would get a new contract around 3.5 to 4 Million anyway. And who are you to say Wang has no money? Forbes just put his worth around 900 Million and Snow says he has no money restrictions just ideological ones. They Planned to do this rebuild completely through the draft and small pick-ups.

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06-20-2013, 07:06 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Seriously, how many games have you watched Bernier play?
If he was this vezina caliber, why don't you keep him ? It's laughable when ppl talk about stats, if it was that way, he would be starting instead of Quick

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06-20-2013, 07:06 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Seriously, how many games have you watched Bernier play?
He hasn't obviously if he's comparing Scrivens to Bernier.

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06-20-2013, 07:08 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by KrisBeKreame View Post
No, your not getting Hamonic for Bernier unless you add a significant piece. And I would imagine Hamonic would get a new contract around 3.5 to 4 Million anyway. And who are you to say Wang has no money? Forbes just put his worth around 900 Million and Snow says he has no money restrictions just ideological ones. They Planned to do this rebuild completely through the draft and small pick-ups.
He doesn't believe Kings can get Hamonic. Just a little old fashioned baiting there.

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06-20-2013, 07:10 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Highlander23 View Post
If he was this vezina caliber, why don't you keep him ? It's laughable when ppl talk about stats, if it was that way, he would be starting instead of Quick
Who said he's Vezina caliber? Using your flawed logic, I guess that Scrivens being better than Bernier makes him a Vezina candidate now?

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06-20-2013, 07:14 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Highlander23 View Post
If he was this vezina caliber, why don't you keep him ? It's laughable when ppl talk about stats, if it was that way, he would be starting instead of Quick
I'm sure if the cap situation were different, in a perfect world with no personal context, we would. The problem is, you can't afford to pay two number 1 goalies simultaneously and Bernier becomes increasingly more expensive as he accumulates service time. He's a puzzle piece that's grown too large, and from a man-to-a-man, Lombardi is giving Bernier this opportunity because he understands he's deserving of it, even though he's well-liked on the team, could likely fit under the cap next year, and we obviously own his rights.

Brian Boyle's father once called Lombardi and requested a trade back to the east coast because he wasn't adjusting well. Lombardi didn't have to trade him, but he did. Lombardi is a man of principle and will eat cost/value because he understands the personal aspect of the business. In most cases, he rewards those that are team-first, and Bernier has done just that even though he's been deserving of a larger role in the NHL for some time.


Last edited by Crowne Royale: 06-20-2013 at 07:17 PM. Reason: Revision
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06-20-2013, 07:18 PM
  #116
boredmale
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
I'm going to guess that this bit of information of multiple teams sharing interest in Bernier might lead to a bit of a bidding war for his services. Not to the extent of giving up a significant player as part of the package, but I do believe that Lombardi is trying to work his way back into the 1st round of the draft and may do so by way of this trade.
I wouldn't be surprised if Bernier gets a 1st rounder back, what I would be surprised by would be if the Kings get anything significant beyond that(assuming the pick is in the 10-20 range)

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06-20-2013, 07:37 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Highlander23 View Post
If he was this vezina caliber, why don't you keep him ? It's laughable when ppl talk about stats, if it was that way, he would be starting instead of Quick
Let's say you have a one car garage, which due to the cap is what most teams near the cap ceiling have at goaltender. Why pay to keep a Bentley when you already have a Ferrari?

The guy has overcome some early career jitters and is a rock in net IMO, and I have never been a big Bernier fan. His style is more economical than the types of goaltenders that I prefer, but it is super effective.

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06-20-2013, 08:07 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by DrDangles View Post
Bernier for Bennett and buyout Fleury, please. It just makes too much sense.
No it doesn't. This is gross

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06-20-2013, 08:12 PM
  #119
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Time to drop the final card.... Up your offers or we trade Bernier for MPS and bring back the oilers of old and the destruction of all else!!!!!!!

lol

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06-20-2013, 08:23 PM
  #120
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2nd, Frattin, and Scrivens if they want him. Fair offer based on previous goaltending trades, not to mention if a team really wants goaltending help, this is the summer to get it, high amount of proven starters available.

Bernier is all potential at this point, I wouldn't mind if the Leafs took a chance on it...but I am not about to trade great prospects or a 1st rounder on him. I also believe that LA Kings fans are setting themselves up for disappointment if that's what they believe Bernier will return.

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06-20-2013, 08:25 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
He doesn't believe Kings can get Hamonic.
They can't. NYI are not giving up Hamonic for Bernier, no way no how.

 
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06-20-2013, 08:32 PM
  #122
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I don't want Bennett.

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06-20-2013, 08:41 PM
  #123
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I don't want Bennett.
What? Why not?

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06-20-2013, 10:13 PM
  #124
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The NHL is not a schoolyard. Nobody cares about "damaging relationships." Garth Snow would give an offer sheet in a minute if he thought it would make good sense for building the Isles, and he certainly would not care if Lombardi was pissed off about it.

And, I doubt that Lombardi would take it all that personally either. Its a legitimate strategy for acquiring players allowed by the CBA. Not some kind of "dirty trick." It is no different than signing UFAs away from another team.

The real reason GMs avoid offer sheets has nothing to do with a high school like social dynamic. Its just not an effective strategy for acquiring players. Nine times of 10, the other team will match. And, when they don't match, you are essentially paying a player a UFA salary (which means more $ than they are worth) while still surrendering valuable assets.

I really don't expect any team to sign Bernier to an offer sheet, but I also don't agree that GMs will avoid offer sheets because they are worried about angering the almighty Lombardi.
Sorry, but you don't know all the dynamics. I've spoken with Lombardi myself, and he's shared his thoughts on offer sheets.

It is a legal course of action to sign a player to the organization, but it is also frowned on quite a bit, and it pisses off other GMs. You're not just putting a GM in the tight spot by making them decide on whether or not to keep a player; but you're also driving up the comp prices for other RFAs. Edit: I want to add that Lombardi didn't say these dynamics to me specifically; he focused more on the principle and the tension it can cause with other GMs, and that GMs do try to get back at offending GMs by threatening to offer sheet their players in return.

It's not about the almighty Lombardi, but it's NOT an appreciated practice. Other GMs have retaliated in the past by signing a previous team's RFA to an offer sheet. I can't recall what he said word-for-word, but Lombardi pretty much said, "When other GMs sign other players to offer sheets, it makes you want to grab him by the shirt and say, 'What the hell are you doing?'"

Now granted, it's not an appreciated practice, but we also don't know how often GMs try to sign players to offer sheets. We only hear about the ones the players have signed.

Granted, this was all years ago, so maybe the climate has changed, but I don't think you understand the importance of interpersonal relationships between the GMs. Granted, the GMs have to do what's best for their team, but part of that entails having good relationships.


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06-20-2013, 10:17 PM
  #125
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I don't want Bennett.
Beau Bennett would be high value for Bernier. Dont expect it. Pittsburgh's had a lot of patience for him and they're going to need him as they go forward with cap issues pending over the next couple of years. I could see them sending a first to LA, but that would be about it.

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