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With hindsight, do you sign Briere again?

View Poll Results: With 20/20 hindsight, do you sign Briere for 8 years 52M?
Yes 70 86.42%
No 10 12.35%
Undecided 1 1.23%
Voters: 81. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-20-2013, 08:18 PM
  #26
Danglous
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Hell yeah, he did great things for us. I will never forget his playoff clutch-ness. Everything seemed to work out in the end even with the bad contract. Unfortunate that Danny really wanted Philly to be his permanent home.

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06-20-2013, 08:24 PM
  #27
Haute Couturier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
On my phone, I don't have the time...

But one quick question, and there's plenty... the 2009-10 Cup Finals run? Enjoy it? Without him we don't sniff the finals, maybe not even the playoffs.
Logical fallacy. You don't think they wouldn't have used that $6.5M elsewhere? That was a stacked team. Maybe 2010 doesn't happen, but maybe another year happens instead. Briere wasn't so valuable that he would make or break their success.

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Originally Posted by Philadelphia Ducks View Post
Worst case scenario? I think you mean best case scenario. And there was no way we woulda got either of those players. I don't even know how you can link the Briere signing to us losing out on the chance at getting Doughty or Stamkos, wtf.

While his cap hit was pretty high, wasn't Briere signed the first year the cap came out...maybe it was the second, I don't know? GMs didn't fully understand it, no one could have fully understood how those contracts would pan out and how high/low the cap was going to rise/fall. But Briere brought a lot of positive **** to this franchise on and off the ice, I think it is safe to say that if we never had Briere, Giroux wouldn't have developed into the player that he is today. 100% I would do this deal over again.
I never said that at all. I personally believe that team would have been too good to finish last. I'm just saying from the perspective of the Flyers front office (and most fans) the worst case was finishing last again, but it wouldn't have been so bad in the long run.

LOL @ crediting Giroux's development to Briere. I guess Couturier wouldn't be a top defensive forward in the league without Briere either.

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06-20-2013, 08:34 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
Logical fallacy. You don't think they wouldn't have used that $6.5M elsewhere? That was a stacked team. Maybe 2010 doesn't happen, but maybe another year happens instead. Briere wasn't so valuable that he would make or break their success.



I never said that at all. I personally believe that team would have been too good to finish last. I'm just saying from the perspective of the Flyers front office (and most fans) the worst case was finishing last again, but it wouldn't have been so bad in the long run.

LOL @ crediting Giroux's development to Briere. I guess Couturier wouldn't be a top defensive forward in the league without Briere either.
you said "The worst case scenario if they didn't sign Briere is that they would have ended up with Doughty or Stamkos." That is implying worst case scenario for us was we get Doughty or Stamkos. What would best case scenario be?

When an undersized veteran centre takes in an undersized rookie centre into his house, lives with him, teaches him how to play, act, live like a pro. I'd say that helps his development, you're insane if you think he had nothing to do with it. And yes, Briere would have helped in the development of Couturier too, but of course, because Briere was a train wreck defensively he obviously couldn't have taught Couturier anything, he probably has regressed Couts' development . I'd be willing to bet if you asked them who helped them the most on the way, it'd be the person they lived with......

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Old
06-20-2013, 08:54 PM
  #29
Garbage Goal
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You're all acting as though all that cap space and salary wouldn't have gone somewhere else. It's not as though as if we didn't spend it on Briere it would be missing.

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06-20-2013, 08:59 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
You're all acting as though all that cap space and salary wouldn't have gone somewhere else. It's not as though as if we didn't spend it on Briere it would be missing.
Look at the 2010 team. Where else would you allocate that money? Give me a break.

And don't you dare say goaltending. We would not have magically found a goalie had we not signed Briere.

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Old
06-20-2013, 09:04 PM
  #31
Garbage Goal
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Look at the 2010 team. Where else would you allocate that money? Give me a break.

And don't you dare say goaltending. We would not have magically found a goalie had we not signed Briere.
Like I said already, I wasn't a major fan at the time of the Briere signing and I have a very bad memory. I can't say with confidence who they would have signed. I'm also not Nostradomus. However, in the several year time-span before that run I'm sure there would have been somewhere it could have been put to good use. Also, the cap space isn't isolated to our one Cup run year. If it were spent elsewhere there's nothing saying we couldn't have made a run another year.

Neither are you Nostradomus for that matter. There's nothing saying that 6.5 million dollars in free cap space could've been spent somewhere better elsewhere and we could have made another run just as good as that one or have actually won the Cup rather then just coming close. I'm not Nostradomus either so I can't say with certainty that that would have happened, but you can't say with certainty the inverse either.

However, it is a fact that in his six regular seasons with us he was injury filled for one of them and only did well, relative to his cap hit and salary, in two of the six and his career high in points with us is only 72 points. I don't know about you but I expect better then that for 6.5 mil cap hit on a long-term deal.

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06-20-2013, 09:09 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Like I said already, I wasn't a major fan at the time of the Briere signing and I have a very bad memory. I can't say with confidence who they would have signed. I'm also not Nostradomus. However, in the several year time-span before that run I'm sure there would have been somewhere it could have been put to good use. Also, the cap space isn't isolated to our one Cup run year. If it were spent elsewhere there's nothing saying we couldn't have made a run another year.

Neither are you Nostradomus for that matter. There's nothing saying that 6.5 million dollars in free cap space could've been spent somewhere better elsewhere and we could have made another run just as good as that one or have actually won the Cup rather then just coming close. I'm not Nostradomus either so I can't say with certainty that that would have happened, but you can't say with certainty the inverse either.

However, it is a fact that in his six regular seasons with us he was injury filled for one of them and only did well, relative to his cap hit and salary, in two of the six and his career high in points with us is only 72 points. I don't know about you but I expect better then that for 6.5 mil cap hit on a long-term deal.
Please, just look at the 2010 lineup. It was a perfectly constructed team (on paper, at least). Where would you allocate Briere's salary on that team? The only hole on that team was in net, and that was an organizational decision to not pursue other options.

Your argument makes no sense. We literally could not have put that money to better use in 2010. That was our best chance to win the Cup, and Briere did not in any way inhibit our ability to fill our holes.

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Old
06-20-2013, 09:15 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Please, just look at the 2010 lineup. It was a perfectly constructed team (on paper, at least). Where would you allocate Briere's salary on that team? The only hole on that team was in net, and that was an organizational decision to not pursue other options.

Your argument makes no sense. We literally could not have put that money to better use in 2010. That was our best chance to win the Cup, and Briere did not in any way inhibit our ability to fill our holes.
Three things:

1) You're fixating on that one single year out of the entire Briere contract, coincidentally the one single year we made an impressive run with him that fits your argument. It's not as if that was our only chance with him or with who would replace him.

2) You just admitted there was a hole in goal. Doesn't matter if it was an organizational decision to skip out in goal or not. Fact of the matter is part of the reason we didn't have strength is goal is because of cap space and Briere took up 6.5 million of it.

3) Fact of the matter is in multiple years of a 6.5 cap hit all we have to show thanks to for Briere is some good playoff performances, only one of which came anywhere close to a Cup. We never won a Cup with Briere and the fact of the matter is that in his entire duration here he took up a large chunk of cap space.

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06-20-2013, 09:18 PM
  #34
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There was only a hole in net because of a freak disease/injury.

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Old
06-20-2013, 09:20 PM
  #35
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My god, a signing turns out to be a good one and well there was probably a better one. No one knows who, but they're sure there was.


You guys forget that we had the season we don't speak of? We were the worst team in the league that summer, we had no choice but to overpay for a FA. And the big fish that off season were Drury, Gomez, and Briere. Of the three, which one turned out to be the best from that FA summer??

Some people will never be happy. Oh well.

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06-20-2013, 09:21 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
There was only a hole in net because of a freak disease/injury.
Not like we've had stable or reliable goaltending the entire time Briere was here regardless of injuries.

Not blaming that on Briere, just pointing out that 6.5 mil in cap space could have been handy in nailing one down.

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06-20-2013, 09:23 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Three things:

1) You're fixating on that one single year out of the entire Briere contract, coincidentally the one single year we made an impressive run with him that fits your argument. It's not as if that was our only chance with him or with who would replace him.
You're right I'm only focusing on one year. Because that one year deflates your entire premise.

Your argument is that we could have put that money to better use. I'm saying if you look at the 2010 team (ie, the "perfect" team we could have possibly put together) you will realize that Briere's contract did not prohibit us from filling the holes in the lineup.

Quote:
2) You just admitted there was a hole in goal. Doesn't matter if it was an organizational decision to skip out in goal or not. Fact of the matter is part of the reason we didn't have strength is goal is because of cap space and Briere took up 6.5 million of it.
We had a hole in net because 1) Emery went down with freaking avascular necrosis and 2) because management decided not to pursue other options at the deadline.

It had nothing. Nothing to do with Briere's contract.

Quote:
3) Fact of the matter is in multiple years of a 6.5 cap hit all we have to show thanks to for Briere is some good playoff performances, only one of which came anywhere close to a Cup. We never won a Cup with Briere and the fact of the matter is that in his entire duration here he took up a large chunk of cap space.
Don't see why this is an argument against him. He brought us closer to the Cup than we would have been without him. It's really that simple.

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06-20-2013, 09:23 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
My god, a signing turns out to be a good one and well there was probably a better one. No one knows who, but they're sure there was.


You guys forget that we had the season we don't speak of? We were the worst team in the league that summer, we had no choice but to overpay for a FA. And the big fish that off season were Drury, Gomez, and Briere. Of the three, which one turned out to be the best from that FA summer??

Some people will never be happy. Oh well.
A signing that takes up 6.5 mil in cap space for 6 seasons, doesn't result in a Cup win, only has two relatively good regular seasons, and ends up in a buyout is arguable as to whether it's good or not.

I never said I was sure there were better options at the time. What I am sure of is that in an entire six seasons he was with us I'm sure there were options out there that we couldn't get because we had almost 7 mil locked up in Briere long-term. You can't deny that.

You, like the other guy, are also solely focusing on one season of six because it conveniently fits your argument.

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06-20-2013, 09:24 PM
  #39
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Well out of the 3 big names the Flyers had interest in that offseason (Briere, Drury, and Gomez), I'd say we made the right choice. The contract and cap hit were pretty high, but like a lot of people have said in the Streit thread, the Flyers always overpay for the big names. That's what they've always done. And if they didn't overpay for Briere they probably would have used the money to overpay for someone else or traded away valuable prospects for someone else.

Something else that is being overlooked here is his leadership. He helped mentor a lot of our younger players and made them what they are today.

Oh and he helped us go from worst in the league in 2007, to a few wins from the SCF in 2008.


Last edited by The Couturier Effect: 06-20-2013 at 09:33 PM.
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06-20-2013, 09:25 PM
  #40
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Don't see why this is an argument against him. He brought us closer to the Cup than we would have been without him. It's really that simple.
Two things.

1) How in the hell could you possibly know that?

2) Coming close isn't the same as winning it.

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06-20-2013, 09:30 PM
  #41
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The Briere signing was a good signing. He definitely had more good things happen than bad. But lets not forget that the 2010 team also had a an outstanding top 4 defense including a future hall of famer. It also had three players that would go on to win the cup with another team two years later. Richards and Carter were huge players for us and the Kings. In 2010 they played on a line together in the playoffs and played against the other teams best lines. We also had the emergence of Giroux who was playing amazingly. These both allowed that Briere's line to play against easier competition. Had Emery been healthy we probably would have won. There would have been a lot of money to play with an extra 6.5 million to spare. Briere played a huge part in that run but lets not make it seem like he carried the rest of the team

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06-20-2013, 09:31 PM
  #42
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in hindsight i wouldn't resign anybody i didn't win a cup with. in hindsight.

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06-20-2013, 09:31 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
You, like the other guy, are also solely focusing on one season of six because it conveniently fits your argument.
No. We're focusing on that year because it effectively blows a massive hole into the premise of your argument.

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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Two things.

1) How in the hell could you possibly know that?
Seriously? Few things in the NHL are certain, but I can tell you for a fact that Briere's 30 point performance was the largest reason that we made it that far. Without him, we don't sniff the SCF. Tell me what would have been better had we not had Briere.

Who would we have been able to pursue that we weren't able to pursue? Can you think of anyone? I know your memory is bad, so I'll help you out. No one. We still pursued each and every player we would have liked to pursue.


Quote:
2) Coming close isn't the same as winning it.
Oh, god. Not this. To win the Cup, you need a whole lot of luck. This "Cup or FAILURE!!!" mentality is just so devoid of logic.

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06-20-2013, 09:33 PM
  #44
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I'm sure there were options out there that we couldn't get because we had almost 7 mil locked up in Briere long-term. You can't deny that.
You're sure?? How sure? So sure ok then name me one. Just one player we couldn't get because of Danny Briere's contract. I'll hang up and listen.

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06-20-2013, 09:37 PM
  #45
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No. We're focusing on that year because it effectively blows a massive hole into the premise of your argument.
You two are talking about different years. You're talking about our Cup run, he's talking about the year we signed him.

Quote:
Seriously? Few things in the NHL are certain, but I can tell you for a fact that Briere's 30 point performance was the largest reason that we made it that far. Without him, we don't sniff the SCF. Tell me what would have been better had we not had Briere.
You're still missing the point completely by fixating on one year. What's to say that, with 6.5 mil in cap space, we couldn't have signed someone or some other people to make a run in any of the other five seasons Briere was here? It's not like that one Cup run year we had is the only year we were allowed to compete.

Quote:
Who would we have been able to pursue that we weren't able to pursue? Can you think of anyone? I know your memory is bad, so I'll help you out. No one. We still pursued each and every player we would have liked to pursue.
I'm sorry I can't remember six seasons worth of transactions, free agents, and interest in players. Can you?

So you're saying that it's unlikely that in the entirety of six seasons there isn't a possibility that the money couldn't have been better spent elsewhere. Six seasons.

Quote:
Oh, god. Not this. To win the Cup, you need a whole lot of luck. This "Cup or FAILURE!!!" mentality is just so devoid of logic.
Again missing the point. The point I'm making here is that the ultimate goal is the Cup and with Briere, with signing him, we didn't win it. So why not, if we were allowed to reverse time, try it without him and 6.5 mil in free cap space for six seasons?

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06-20-2013, 09:37 PM
  #46
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No. We're focusing on that year because it effectively blows a

Oh, god. Not this. To win the Cup, you need a whole lot of luck. This "Cup or FAILURE!!!" mentality is just so devoid of logic.
it sorta gets old comin close tho. nobody's come closer and failed as many times as us since we last won. its the journey not the destination but come on the journey's gotta end some day. I'm gonna b dead soon. I'm not that healthy. i eat like crap. i drink. i sweat just watching hockey. I'm a mess. I'm sorry I'm getting off the point. briere was the man but we didn't win with him so whatever. I'm just glad we didn't take gomez. i remember everyone saying gags needs a playmaker to replace forsberg and he's it. him or drury woulda really sucked.

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06-20-2013, 09:38 PM
  #47
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You're sure?? How sure? So sure ok then name me one. Just one player we couldn't get because of Danny Briere's contract. I'll hang up and listen.
I'll do that as soon as you start being respectful to me and can name six seasons worth of free agents, moves, and interests in the NHL. Go ahead.

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06-20-2013, 09:39 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
You're sure?? How sure? So sure ok then name me one. Just one player we couldn't get because of Danny Briere's contract. I'll hang up and listen.
Now I'm not sure if this player would have signed here, and I hate giving this guy anything to add to his argument because I 100% disagree with him, but Marian Hossa was a UFA in 2008 and 2009...

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06-20-2013, 09:39 PM
  #49
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i like the undecided guy.

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06-20-2013, 09:41 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan8828 View Post
Now I'm not sure if this player would have signed here, and I hate giving this guy anything to add to his argument because I 100% disagree with him, but Marian Hossa was a UFA in 2008 and 2009...
It's not like I should need to mention anyone. Common sense says 6.5 mil is a lot of cap space and common sense says there was a lot of open opportunities that we could have spent it in a duration of six NHL seasons. Any Flyers fan also knows that during Holmgren's tenure, which also includes Briere's tenure, we've had lots of cap problems.

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