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Old
06-20-2013, 08:53 PM
  #1
ShortSideFlick
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Nsh - Tor

First off, I'm far from knowledgeable when it comes to Nashville, nor do I know the willingness or lack there of to trade the 4th OA. With that out of the way, if Barkov was available at the 4th OA I'd love to make a move for it.

If NSH doesn't want to move down very far in the draft and/or they don't see a need for Gardiner due to their defensive depth, there's been a lot of Gardiner for 7th overall discussion going on around here. Fans on both sides like it and hate, which is promising by HF standards lol. It's very hypothetical (like any proposal on here), if you want to debate it, please go to one of those threads. For this thread, please assume it IS possible and leave it at that.

TOR:
Gardiner OR 7th pick via trade with Edm
Grabo (with salary retained)
pick #21 OR Frattin+our 2nd
rights to MacArthur

NSH:
4th OA

I think Gardiner would be great with Weber, but I also know NSH has lots of good D prospects, so this deal is dependent on how you feel about your prospects ability to move into the top pairing with Weber.

I'm not sure if you have a use for Grabo or not, but in another thread fans of several teams said they would be interested in him with some level of salary retention, so I do think he has value this way. If he's not a fit for you, another piece could possibly be substituted.

I read somewhere (sportsnet or tsn i think) that Macarthur was someone NSH should look at targeting as a UFA, so I figured throwing his rights in would be a nice sweetener. I'm not consider it a major piece or anything, just something that appears to be a good fit and could give them a jump on negotiating with him plus show a higher level interest than others to help sway Mac.

Is there something here, and if so what changes would need to be made? What other pieces on Toronto would NSH be interested in?

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Old
06-20-2013, 08:56 PM
  #2
Top 6 Spaling
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This is our only chance to snag a #1C in the history of this franchise. We're not blowing it for some lesser parts.

Not saying the parts are bad, but it's not worth it.

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Old
06-20-2013, 08:56 PM
  #3
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That's a lot to give up, but I'd do it if Barkov is still on there. Don't know if Pred fans would though because they desperately need a #1C. I feel value is more than fair on our end.

I still don't think Barkov drops to #4 regardless. I've been saying that Drouin or Jones will go #4 (I wouldn't do it for Drouin, Jones warrants consideration- I think I'd do it though).

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06-20-2013, 08:58 PM
  #4
headsigh
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i mean, it's not bad, but it doesn't solve much either

gardiner is a promising defenseman and has a good future, but we already have josi in the same slot TOR has for gardiner

nsh have a ton of grabovski-types both on the roster and in the system, same goes for fratton and macarthur.

the only interest NSH would have is a top line goalscorer like kessel and JVR. and the leafs don't want to part with them (for good reason) so there's not much that can be done

and also we need a center like super-bad, more so than we need a gardiner or whomever.

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Old
06-20-2013, 08:58 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
This is our only chance to snag a #1C in the history of this franchise. We're not blowing it for some lesser parts.

Not saying the parts are bad, but it's not worth it.
You guys did have Forsberg.

I agree though. No way does Nashville pass on who I assume will be Barkov.

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Old
06-20-2013, 09:00 PM
  #6
firstemperor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headsigh View Post
i mean, it's not bad, but it doesn't solve much either

gardiner is a promising defenseman and has a good future, but we already have josi in the same slot TOR has for gardiner

nsh have a ton of grabovski-types both on the roster and in the system, same goes for fratton and macarthur.

the only interest NSH would have is a top line goalscorer like kessel and JVR. and the leafs don't want to part with them (for good reason) so there's not much that can be done

and also we need a center like super-bad, more so than we need a gardiner or whomever.
I still feel Grabo is a very good player, perhaps overpaid by about 1mil but he's a lot better than Legwand or Gaustad in a top 6 role IMO. And if he gets put there instead of a checking role, I think he has a chance to shine again like previous years (I'm not nearly as low on him as other short sighted leaf fans though but I think Carlyse is treating him poorly here).

Gardiner is a stud. And I'd rather give the 21st than Frattin.

I can see why Preds don't do this though. I wouldn't do the package for Drouin, we're giving a lot up. I'd do it for Barkov because I'm extremely high on him.

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Old
06-20-2013, 09:01 PM
  #7
hockeyjack89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortSideFlick View Post
First off, I'm far from knowledgeable when it comes to Nashville, nor do I know the willingness or lack there of to trade the 4th OA. With that out of the way, if Barkov was available at the 4th OA I'd love to make a move for it.

If NSH doesn't want to move down very far in the draft and/or they don't see a need for Gardiner due to their defensive depth, there's been a lot of Gardiner for 7th overall discussion going on around here. Fans on both sides like it and hate, which is promising by HF standards lol. It's very hypothetical (like any proposal on here), if you want to debate it, please go to one of those threads. For this thread, please assume it IS possible and leave it at that.

TOR:
Gardiner OR 7th pick via trade with Edm
Grabo (with salary retained)
pick #21 OR Frattin+our 2nd
rights to MacArthur

NSH:
4th OA

I think Gardiner would be great with Weber, but I also know NSH has lots of good D prospects, so this deal is dependent on how you feel about your prospects ability to move into the top pairing with Weber.

I'm not sure if you have a use for Grabo or not, but in another thread fans of several teams said they would be interested in him with some level of salary retention, so I do think he has value this way. If he's not a fit for you, another piece could possibly be substituted.

I read somewhere (sportsnet or tsn i think) that Macarthur was someone NSH should look at targeting as a UFA, so I figured throwing his rights in would be a nice sweetener. I'm not consider it a major piece or anything, just something that appears to be a good fit and could give them a jump on negotiating with him plus show a higher level interest than others to help sway Mac.

Is there something here, and if so what changes would need to be made? What other pieces on Toronto would NSH be interested in?

If I'm Nashville, I definitely accept this deal!!

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Old
06-20-2013, 09:01 PM
  #8
Drew311
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I would also love Barkov, but this trade would completely gut the Leafs depth. You're proposing to potentially trade a top 4 defenseman, a second line centre and a top 9 winger, for a prospect. Please don't say these spots will be replaced by free agent signings like Clarkson and Weiss, because that is just a recipe for disaster.

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Old
06-20-2013, 09:11 PM
  #9
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Nashville politely declines.

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Old
06-20-2013, 09:14 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
This is our only chance to snag a #1C in the history of this franchise. We're not blowing it for some lesser parts.

Not saying the parts are bad, but it's not worth it.
If Mac and Barkov are taken in the top-3, leaving Drouin, does Nashville go Lindholm/Monahan or just take the winger?

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Old
06-20-2013, 09:17 PM
  #11
ShortSideFlick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew311 View Post
I would also love Barkov, but this trade would completely gut the Leafs depth. You're proposing to potentially trade a top 4 defenseman, a second line centre and a top 9 winger, for a prospect. Please don't say these spots will be replaced by free agent signings like Clarkson and Weiss, because that is just a recipe for disaster.
I don't think it guts our depth that much. Liles is a capable stop gap until Rielly is ready, so Gardiner is expendable in a scenario where it brings back Barkov.

Grabo is a good 2C, but hater or supporter, everyone seems to agree Kadri is our 2C going forward and that Grabo is miscast as a 3C. I think Colborne is ready for the 3C spot, and a 3C is something that is reasonable to acquire via trade. Regardless of whether or not you like him, his ideal role is filled. The role he is playing we may already have a replacement for and if not it isn't something that is excessively hard to fill.

D'amigo or Ashton could be given a shot on the third line, and again 3rd liners are easier to aqcuire via trade or FA. I'm not banking on weiss of clarkson, but I really don't think this hits our depth as much as you are making it out.

That said it doesn't sound like Nashville has any interest in moving the pick. At least I'm not getting ripped on for the value...

Addition: Thanks for keeping it classy NSH fans.

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Old
06-20-2013, 09:18 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyjack13 View Post
If I'm Nashville, I definitely accept this deal!!
Why? We've had quite a few defensemen like Gardiner and we've had hundreds of middling 50ish point ok-ish wingers like Grabo. We don't want to move out of the top five, let alone to 20. Again we've had and will continue to have nothing but players who are exactly like Macarthur and Frattin.

Classic quantity over quality.

We need a forward who will score 60+ points every year, and not one of these players is going to do that. This is our first chance to pick this high since we've started playing in '98, and this is Poile's shot at drafting a no.1 center since Joe Juneau. No Deal at all.

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Old
06-20-2013, 09:18 PM
  #13
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It's not bad value-wise, but Nashville is not in a position to deal quality for quantity. Pass from the Preds.

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Old
06-20-2013, 09:21 PM
  #14
ShortSideFlick
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Lol, Leafs fans are gonna jump me for this one....

What about something based around Kadri instead of Gardiner? Grabo goes back to our 2C.

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Old
06-20-2013, 09:24 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundgarden View Post
Why? We've had quite a few defensemen like Gardiner and we've had hundreds of middling 50ish point ok-ish wingers like Grabo. We don't want to move out of the top five, let alone to 20. Again we've had and will continue to have nothing but players who are exactly like Macarthur and Frattin.

Classic quantity over quality.

We need a forward who will score 60+ points every year, and not one of these players is going to do that. This is our first chance to pick this high since we've started playing in '98, and this is Poile's shot at drafting a no.1 center since Joe Juneau. No Deal at all.
He's being sarcastic. He's an EDM fan attempting to be slick by ripping on a proposal simply because Toronto is involved.

And I get why you wouldn't want to trade the pick...

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Old
06-20-2013, 09:27 PM
  #16
JackBauer
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Nashville has never really had a dynamic forward in their franchise history. this is their first chance to grab one. it's going to take something spectacular to pry that pick away from them. stick to proposals for the 5th and the 7th

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Old
06-20-2013, 10:21 PM
  #17
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It is going to take a lot, and I mean so much that it hurts, to get the pick from Nashville. One of Mac, Barkov or Drouin will likely be available, and if Jones is on the board he isn't a bad pick either. Even then, Poile could trade down if he likes Lindholm enough.

Sorry, but I think we're sticking with our pick unless a team's GM gets drunk, and makes a decision he is going to reeeeeeally regret in the morning.

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Old
06-20-2013, 10:31 PM
  #18
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It is not the first time Nashville has had the chance to draft a franchise center. Legwand was drafted 2nd overall.

Now he didn't turn out to be one but there's a chance whoever they draft at 4th won't become one either.(I don't personally see it that way if its Barkov)

As for the proposal, I can't see either team wanting to do it.

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Old
06-20-2013, 10:39 PM
  #19
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It is not the first time Nashville has had the chance to draft a franchise center. Legwand was drafted 2nd overall.

Now he didn't turn out to be one but there's a chance whoever they draft at 4th won't become one either.(I don't personally see it that way if its Barkov)

As for the proposal, I can't see either team wanting to do it.
From The Hockey News' 1998 draft guide: http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/...layer.php?1615

Quote:
Assets: Has good speed, which he uses effectively when up against rival NHL pivots. Works hard in all three zones and has become a highly dependable player especially in the defensive zone thanks to great commitment. Can win important face-offs.

Flaws: Has a tendency to get hurt a lot, which limits his value to his team. Doesn't use his 6-2, 204-pound frame enough to his advantage. On talent, he should produce more points but lacks consistency in that department (especially over time).

Career Potential: Savvy veteran two-way center.
I don't think he was ever supposed to be THAT special of a player.

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Old
06-21-2013, 12:21 AM
  #20
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keep your lucky top 5 and trade Wilson to us..

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Old
06-21-2013, 12:30 AM
  #21
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A trade around JVR for #4 Overall? Leaf fans won't want to, but is that similar value?

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Old
06-21-2013, 12:36 AM
  #22
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Deal proposed in the OP is kind of a lot to give up, but if it's for Barkov then it is absolutely worth it. Leafs fans will not be wanting Gardiner included but if they come out of it with Barkov and holding onto Reilly they can't really complain; the team will be better.

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Old
06-21-2013, 12:47 AM
  #23
TMLKesselftw
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TBH, if what the OP said about the 7th overall and Gardiner being equalish value, why would it take our #21st pick + Grabovski (with salary retained) to move up 4 spots from #7 to #4 in a draft that is suppose to be known as a deep draft?

I think going out of a draft with Monahan/Nichushkinin/Lindholm + whoever is available at #21 (Morrissey? Lazar? Rychel?) is better than just Barkov.... And I'm a huge fan of Barkov's.

With the cost of trading up, I'm hoping the Leafs only do it if they can get Mackinnon... although then again I do really like Barkov haha, I'm back and forth on it.

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Old
06-21-2013, 03:16 AM
  #24
ShortSideFlick
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The gardiner for 7th overall isn't exactly established value. It's just something being thrown around the boards so I factored it in since NSH has a lot of D prospects and might prefer another high pick over Gardiner.

The Finish league is ranked as the third best league in the world behind the KHL and NHL. Barkov put up almost ppg as a 17 year old against grown men. I really like monahan but in my view there is a clear separation between the top 4 and the rest. Maybe Nichuskin is the exception, he seems to be a wild card. He might go beast mode lol.

I know watching highlights isn't a great way to scout players, you could throw together a nice highlight reel for any high end player. Hell, if there was video for my play I could put a nice highlight reel together lol. That said, watching Barkov's highlights shows he has something I don't see in the other prospects. It's hard to describe, but it's the quickness, efficiency and precision in how he handles the puck. Sometimes it's a simple as the way he moves the puck onto the backhand before a shot. Mackinnon and Drouin and all them pull fast slick moves, some nicer than anything in Barkov's highlights, but it's different.

Anytime a player is breaking into the NHL the comments are always about adapting to the increased speed of the game. I have no doubt the other top picks will adapt to this, but Barkov already has it. In spades. It's what stands out to me more than the fact he's making nice plays (all the guys at the top of draft class make nice plays). He stands out for it against grown men in one of the best leagues in the world as a 17 year old. It's natural to him. Maybe Mackinnon would have that if he were playing against men like Barkov is but Barkov has developed it extremely young. Even as 16 year old put up decent points in the finish league with men. When the other guys are developing it and the adapting to the NHL Barkov will be honing it even further. He's had it while the rest of the picks were getting used to junior. I'm telling you, this kid is something special. If I was Colorado I'd be taking Barkov and I would not be trading down as it would risk someone else getting Barkov (not that it'd be terrible to get stuck with any of the others).

I don't get to watch these players like the scouts do, so I realize my credibility is nil, but from what I've seen I honestly think Barkov is the best in this draft. Time will tell. Anyway rant over. Lol, I'm a bit drunk at this point so maybe it's exaggerated a bit, but I've been thinking this about Barkov for awhile.

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Old
06-21-2013, 05:52 AM
  #25
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No thanks.. Trade will bring in nothing we don't already have to give up the chance to get somthing we have never had.

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