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Old
06-21-2013, 03:20 AM
  #51
AngelDuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
Lindholm has in no way proven he's ready to play 2nd pairing minutes alongside Fowler yet. Penciling in a 19 year rookie to that spot is asking to fail.
He'd be our best option to play with Fowler based on his style of play. He plays a defensively oriented game, but can also move around and advance the puck up the ice. You'd rather have Lovejoy there?

I bet the Wild are happy they penciled in their Swedish rookie 19 year old defenseman on the TOP PAIRING...lindholm can be just like Brodin next year and I really doubt we're going to have a better option w/ Fowler if we do indeed get Shattenkirk

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06-21-2013, 03:28 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by AngelDuck View Post
Beauchemin-Shattenkirk
Lindholm-Fowler
Allen-Vatanen

Hopefully find someone to dump Souray on.

Sounds good to me...
Is that your lineup in 2 years? Looks good....

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Old
06-21-2013, 03:28 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by AngelDuck View Post
He'd be our best option to play with Fowler based on his style of play. He plays a defensively oriented game, but can also move around and advance the puck up the ice. You'd rather have Lovejoy there?

I bet the Wild are happy they penciled in their Swedish rookie 19 year old defenseman on the TOP PAIRING...lindholm can be just like Brodin next year and I really doubt we're going to have a better option w/ Fowler if we do indeed get Shattenkirk
Minnesota paired Brodin with a guy who should have won the Norris this season. Brodin is also the exception to the rule. Lindholm has still got plenty of growing to do at the AHL level offensively and if he does prove ready then he'll be eased in via the third pairing. Fowler and Lindholm won't exactly intimidate other forwards in front of the net either - while Lindholm is 6'3 he still has a lot of growing into the frame to do.

As for the best option - if we have Fowler, Shattenkirk and Beauchemin then it's pretty simple. Beauchemin played his best ever hockey this year at RD - so you may as well keep him there.

Fowler - Beauchemin
Souray - Shattenkirk
Allen - Vatanen/Sbisa

Souray doesn't have to be matched up against other teams best lines and won't have to play as many minutes on that second pairing so he should be fine in that role.

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Old
06-21-2013, 03:32 AM
  #54
AngelDuck
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Originally Posted by Anaheim Ducks View Post
Is that your lineup in 2 years? Looks good....
yeah, if Lindholm isn't ready next year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
Minnesota paired Brodin with a guy who should have won the Norris this season. Brodin is also the exception to the rule. Lindholm has still got plenty of growing to do at the AHL level offensively and if he does prove ready then he'll be eased in via the third pairing. Fowler and Lindholm won't exactly intimidate other forwards in front of the net either - while Lindholm is 6'3 he still has a lot of growing into the frame to do.

As for the best option - if we have Fowler, Shattenkirk and Beauchemin then it's pretty simple. Beauchemin played his best ever hockey this year at RD - so you may as well keep him there.

Fowler - Beauchemin
Souray - Shattenkirk
Allen - Vatanen/Sbisa

Souray doesn't have to be matched up against other teams best lines and won't have to play as many minutes on that second pairing so he should be fine in that role.
Fair enough. Good post.

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06-21-2013, 04:22 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
We need a center not winger I am not moving Shatty for a winger even if other Blues fans are insane enough to do so. Armstrong is not stupid enough to make a trade like that thankfully.
Yeah who needs effing goals at all?

If we would trade Shatty for Ryan we would still have Stewart, Perron and even Oshie as more or less reasonable trade-chips to get an replacement for Shatty (not as good but good enough) and maybe a center (not a #1 but you also won't get one for Shatty) for a guy who is a proven 30+ goalscorer.

And even if we don't get another RHD asap our D would be good enough for some time:

Jax-Pie
JBo-Polak
Leo/Russ-Cole

But I guess you are only allowed to make one offseason move and everyone who looks at the larger picture is insane.

That said (to all the other Blues fans who aren't verbally attacking others because they have a different opinion) I'm not a fan of trading Shatty either, like having him around but if the right deal comes along....

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06-21-2013, 10:52 AM
  #56
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Shatty for Ryan only happens if Army can make 1 or 2 other deals. It's just an unlikely scenario.

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Old
06-21-2013, 11:15 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by frostyflo View Post
Yeah who needs effing goals at all?

If we would trade Shatty for Ryan we would still have Stewart, Perron and even Oshie as more or less reasonable trade-chips to get an replacement for Shatty (not as good but good enough) and maybe a center (not a #1 but you also won't get one for Shatty) for a guy who is a proven 30+ goalscorer.

And even if we don't get another RHD asap our D would be good enough for some time:

Jax-Pie
JBo-Polak
Leo/Russ-Cole

But I guess you are only allowed to make one offseason move and everyone who looks at the larger picture is insane.

That said (to all the other Blues fans who aren't verbally attacking others because they have a different opinion) I'm not a fan of trading Shatty either, like having him around but if the right deal comes along....
Trading Shatty makes our defense much worse the third pairing you have is not very good at all. It breaks up our ideal top pairing putting us basically in the same place we were last season.

We lose offense by trading Shatty then a new need arises of a PMD. It's not some fantasy world were you can trade a player like Shattenkirk and not lose a good part of your transition game.

Also after the trade we still need a center. We added a better winger I agree but we weakened our defense and our transition game. So while we improved goal scoring we still hurt the team in another area substantially.

If the right player comes along then trading Shatty could make sense just Ryan is not that player. We finally have the defense we have been looking for 2 seasons now. Why not give it a chance to actually play together for a full season.

Tarasenko should get better this season. Schwartz should get better this season as well. People get made at Stewart for being streaky the same people would most likely get made at Ryan as well. Goal scorers are streaky. While I agree Ryan is an upgrade on Stewart he's not some huge upgrade. Also Ryan is an UFA in 2 years who will most likely walk to Philly. If we lock up Shattenkirk long term in the future he will mean much more to us as well.

People need to look at the whole picture of things not just that we need goalscoring so let's trade a huge key to our transition game that creates goalscoring. As good as Bouwmeester is he currently is not as good of a PMD as Shattenkirk. So having him be the key puck mover on the second pair hurts our second pairings transition game.

I don't think people realize the huge hole trading Shattenkirk opens up. And we really didn't fill a whole at all. Does anyone actually think Stewart, Perron, Rattie, Jaskin ect will bring us a Shattenkirk type player or a #1 center?


Last edited by HooliganX2: 06-21-2013 at 11:22 AM.
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Old
06-21-2013, 01:29 PM
  #58
frostyflo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
Trading Shatty makes our defense much worse the third pairing you have is not very good at all. It breaks up our ideal top pairing putting us basically in the same place we were last season.

We lose offense by trading Shatty then a new need arises of a PMD. It's not some fantasy world were you can trade a player like Shattenkirk and not lose a good part of your transition game.

Also after the trade we still need a center. We added a better winger I agree but we weakened our defense and our transition game. So while we improved goal scoring we still hurt the team in another area substantially.

If the right player comes along then trading Shatty could make sense just Ryan is not that player. We finally have the defense we have been looking for 2 seasons now. Why not give it a chance to actually play together for a full season.

Tarasenko should get better this season. Schwartz should get better this season as well. People get made at Stewart for being streaky the same people would most likely get made at Ryan as well. Goal scorers are streaky. While I agree Ryan is an upgrade on Stewart he's not some huge upgrade. Also Ryan is an UFA in 2 years who will most likely walk to Philly. If we lock up Shattenkirk long term in the future he will mean much more to us as well.

People need to look at the whole picture of things not just that we need goalscoring so let's trade a huge key to our transition game that creates goalscoring. As good as Bouwmeester is he currently is not as good of a PMD as Shattenkirk. So having him be the key puck mover on the second pair hurts our second pairings transition game.

I don't think people realize the huge hole trading Shattenkirk opens up. And we really didn't fill a whole at all. Does anyone actually think Stewart, Perron, Rattie, Jaskin ect will bring us a Shattenkirk type player or a #1 center?
see, Hooligan, thats the way of good comunication

thats your POV and I very much understand this. really.
I love Shatty too and I`d like him her for a loooong time too but he is a #2 d-man that is #3 on our depth-chart and could be replaced by a top-4 guy, especially when he is used as a thirs-pairing guy when it gets tough

I also wouldn`t trade him away if there wasn´t another deal to be made to replace him and have another deal which sends one or two wingers for a center (at some point of the season, see JBo).
I also know that is far fetched and easy to type for an armchair GM but guys like Ryan who can create offense without help don`t come often enough to pass on and for sure don`t come cheap.
sign me in if we get one for Stewart + though.

and I know my emergenzy third-pairing isn`t perfect but it would work and I don`t think a hole on the third pairing is as significant as a hole on the first like we had last year.

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