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Something brewing between Maple Leafs and Oilers?

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Old
06-20-2013, 10:53 PM
  #401
Kbs
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Originally Posted by oilers92 View Post
so belanger is your man then
I'd probably take him for cheap too He had a pretty solid reputation as a defensive centre before he went to Edmonton, did he not? Maybe Eakins will be able to get something out of him if he's still with you guys in the fall.

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06-20-2013, 10:55 PM
  #402
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How about we just give you Grabovski for Hemsky and call it a day.

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06-20-2013, 10:56 PM
  #403
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I'd probably take him for cheap too He had a pretty solid reputation as a defensive centre before he went to Edmonton, did he not? Maybe Eakins will be able to get something out of him if he's still with you guys in the fall.
Best there was.

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06-20-2013, 11:07 PM
  #404
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Cheese and crackers! We can't trade Gagner for Gards! We need a 2nd line centre for next year and the guy is only 23. However, the 7th OV for Gardiner sounds appealing.

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06-20-2013, 11:08 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by Kbs View Post
Horcoff isn't good at faceoffs, but I wouldn't be against getting him if it weren't for that terrible contract.

Out of curiousity, would you say Horcoff is better suited as a 4th line centre going forward as opposed to a 3rd line centre?

Horcoff is still a serviceable 3rd line center.

He used to be very good at faceoffs but his shoulder injuries have hampered his abilities, lately he's been floating around 49% which is ok.

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06-20-2013, 11:50 PM
  #406
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I don't think the Leafs would trade Gardiner as part of a package for a number 7 pick. It sort of defeats the purpose really, they will need him hes the future now. If the Leafs are giving up a top 4 defender it's because Gardiner is ready for a top 4 job making one expendable, and the guy who fits the bill in my opinion is Gunnarsson. Franson was great last year and a big part of our success with the way he got the puck to the net, and Phaneuf is our captain which leaves Gunnarsson as the likely candidate. I suppose it could be Fraser, the Oil might covet his toughness but he probably isnt a guy you would give up high picks for. Gunnarsson is a pretty solid defender, can move the puck a bit and is calm in his own end. He doesnt panic, which is a valuable skill to have back there and he would certainly help Edmonton out.

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06-20-2013, 11:57 PM
  #407
Dangles McGavin
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Originally Posted by ShortSideFlick View Post
I disagree completely with what you said. We need a Center and the type of talent we need obviously hasn't been, and likely wont be available outside of drafting one.

There's a lot of wingers in the list, so it makes it look worse than it is since we wouldn't swap gardiner for a winger. The Centres in his list are:

Scheifele
Skinner
Kadri
C. Wilson

We already have Kadri...

Skinner is definitely worth more than Gardiner, but I'd want more size since we lack it at C. Still, for the sake of comparison that's a solid result from a 7th OA or trading Gardiner.

I'd absolutely consider moving Gardiner for Scheifele. Scheifele is pretty much ready, he's big, talented, and by all accounts a good leadership guy. I'd love to have him.

I haven't really seen enough of Wilson to judge, but I'd be iffy on that swap in spite of apparently having a good year.

If Monahan were available I'd consider it (not necessarily saying yes to it.), although my real hope would be that there was a prearranged deal to move up for Barkov. I would definitely add to Gardiner if meant we'd get Barkov.

It's not that I want to move Gardiner. I see all the same things you see and think he'll be a stud, but you have to give to get. We have Rielly on the way, we don't have a Barkov, Schiefele, Couturier (sorry philly fans) or Monohan on the way. A swap of this nature DOES have a strong possibility of improving our team in the long run.

edit: for the record, I'd consider Gardiner straight up for the 7th OA, NOT Gardiner + 21 OA. That's a very, very easy no from my perspective.
Why on earth would you do Gardiner for Scheifele but not C. Wilson? What has Scheifele done to warrant a higher value than Colin Wilson, who looked to semi-break-out last season?

Wilson >> Scheifele

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06-21-2013, 12:30 AM
  #408
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Originally Posted by ITM View Post
After the obvious impact Gardiner had on our club againstBoston, and after having watched no defenceman replicate the ease with which Gardiner repeatedly gained their zone, improvised, etc...Why his name is being brought up as calmly as it is boggles...I thought he and Franson emerged as the top pairing and I hope they're being given the chance to continue.

Phaneuf's name hasn't been mentioned...With Lupul seeming more captain-like, with above mentioned replacing offence, perhaps MacTavish is targeting Phaneuf?

If moved, Gardiner would have a very Rask-like feel in terms of loss.
He can target him all he wants but WHY would Toronto even REMOTELY consider moving Phaneuf? the team is not in a rebuild mode they are looking to make moves to get to the next level trading Phaneuf does not achieve that.

I have said befor a deal around liles and Hemsky or Grabo and Hemsky something like

Liles/Grabo
Scrivens
Holzer

Hemsky
2nd or 3rd

Then with Scrivens gone Noins is free to try to land JB from LA a package that would likely center around Frattin

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06-21-2013, 03:30 AM
  #409
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Originally Posted by Dangles McGavin View Post
Why on earth would you do Gardiner for Scheifele but not C. Wilson? What has Scheifele done to warrant a higher value than Colin Wilson, who looked to semi-break-out last season?

Wilson >> Scheifele
Wilson's also 3 1/2 years older than Scheifele. I think Scheifele will be a better NHL player by '14/15. Matter of opinion...

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06-21-2013, 03:39 AM
  #410
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Lol. Really, am I actually catching this much flak over disagreeing with the statement that smid has been one of the top shutdown D in the NHL the last 3 years? I find that hilarious. What the hell is happening!?!?

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06-21-2013, 04:13 AM
  #411
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Originally Posted by SephF View Post
Horcoff is still a serviceable 3rd line center.

He used to be very good at faceoffs but his shoulder injuries have hampered his abilities, lately he's been floating around 49% which is ok.
Maybe in a sheltered role, but if he is taking on the Crosby/ Malkins, we're going to be significantly increasing our GA. I'd rather experiment with Kadri and so would Carlyle. Bozak is a LOT better than Horcoff in his own end, and he was certainly not utilized in that manner.

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06-21-2013, 05:29 AM
  #412
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Originally Posted by McArthur View Post
Edmonton has enough defensive prospects, the rumor on the radio today was dion phaneuf. and you can keep him.
we are keeping him..he`s the captain and most important D on a playoff team, in a city like Toronto, he`s got no business playing for that team that finishes year after year last...oh wait u did improve by 6 positions...

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06-21-2013, 05:37 AM
  #413
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this is a fun thread to watch two "interesting" fan bases go back and forth arguing what works and what does not

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Old
06-21-2013, 07:30 AM
  #414
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Originally Posted by RomanianLeafs View Post
we are keeping him..he`s the captain and most important D on a playoff team, in a city like Toronto, he`s got no business playing for that team that finishes year after year last...oh wait u did improve by 6 positions...
Hey guy, remember when he pinched on that hit? Wowzers. The guy is pretty beneficial sometimes on D but come on, you can admit he is dumber than a post, even when he was in Calgary.

Having the chance to draft Monahan/Lindholm/Nichushkin in this talented draft is almost a blessing. Can't go wrong there.

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Old
06-21-2013, 08:33 AM
  #415
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Originally Posted by ShortSideFlick View Post
Lol. Really, am I actually catching this much flak over disagreeing with the statement that smid has been one of the top shutdown D in the NHL the last 3 years? I find that hilarious. What the hell is happening!?!?
He's consistently been a league leader in defensive categories (blocked shots, etc.).

You're coming across as a huge homer (as is quite a bit of your fanbase).

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06-21-2013, 09:11 AM
  #416
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Originally Posted by ShortSideFlick View Post
Lol. Wtf man? Outside of 6 games in '09/10 Franson hasn't been an ahler since 08/09. Get a clue before you trash players.

And smid is a solid d, but he IS NOT "one of the top shut-down dmen in the league". You don't pick 1st overall 2 out of three years when you have one of the leagues best shutdown dmen, and in the top 10 the third year. Again, smid is good, but nowhere near being among the leagues best.

Lastly, you use defensive stats of a D who put up a whopping 4 points to "PROVE" he's "(definitely)" better than Franson, a D who was top 10 in d scoring this year, and is #11 overall in playoff scoring for dmen despite only playing in one series.

So in essence, as requested, the counter argument to each of your three points is:

1. Franson was an ahler until this year: completely false, franson hasn't played a single ahl game in the last 3 seasons, and hasn't been considered an ahler for 4 seasons. You clearly don't know **** about franson.

2. Smid is one of the nhl's best shutdown dmen: Lol.

3. Using defensive stats to prove a dman who puts up next to no points is better than dman who is top 10 in D scoring is like saying a jeep is more valuable than a ferrari because it goes over rocks. Not that it matters since you already established you don't have a clue when it comes franson (see 1.) and therefore are in no position to use him in any comparison.

___

"You must have a counter argument? I'd be curious to hear it."
You are overreacting... which is a bit odd considering I was responding directly to xxreact9 when he/she said: "he (Franson) is a step ahead of smid".

Now I interpretted that statement as "a step ahead in terms of development"... since the other dmen referenced are all very young, but clearly (at least in Shultz & Reilly's case) could easily become the better Dmen.

My rebuttal had everything do to with Smid... who HAS established himself as a top shut-down defenseman (ask any fanbase in the west) and has been EDM's most consistent dman in the last 3 years.... ie he is D-eveloped, not still on the "improving" trajectory of the other defensemen xxreact mentioned.

I was not and am not "trashing" Franson in the least. I said he took a "huge step" forward this year. And in fact I wouldn't/didn't even argue that his top-end might be better than Smid's (who is already pretty close to his top end... that's the point).

What I was referring to in my (admittedly dated) AHL reference is the general consensus that I have witnessed FROM LEAF FANS over the past few seasons, when he has been in and out of the lineup/doghouse.... is that you can't call a guy who just recently nailed down a job "a step ahead" of Smid, who has been a solid, consistent dman for AT LEAST the last 3 years.

That's all... no need for a coronary.

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Old
06-21-2013, 09:21 AM
  #417
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Originally Posted by BackhandToeyJoey View Post
Hey guy, remember when he pinched on that hit? Wowzers. The guy is pretty beneficial sometimes on D but come on, you can admit he is dumber than a post, even when he was in Calgary.

Having the chance to draft Monahan/Lindholm/Nichushkin in this talented draft is almost a blessing. Can't go wrong there.
If you actually played hockey, you'd know that pinching is a regular part of playing defense. The blame for that goal lies directly on Ryan O'Byne, who played a 2 on 2 like it was a 2 on 1, and backed right up into Reimer instead of taking away Krejci's time and space.

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06-21-2013, 09:35 AM
  #418
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He's consistently been a league leader in defensive categories (blocked shots, etc.).

You're coming across as a huge homer (as is quite a bit of your fanbase).
Blocked shots =/= skill as a shutdown defenseman. In fact, with the Oilers giving up as many shots as they do, I'd expect their D corps to have a higher blocked shots total.

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06-21-2013, 09:50 AM
  #419
BackhandToeyJoey
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If you actually played hockey, you'd know that pinching is a regular part of playing defense. The blame for that goal lies directly on Ryan O'Byne, who played a 2 on 2 like it was a 2 on 1, and backed right up into Reimer instead of taking away Krejci's time and space.
Lol. Yes I play hockey, and never have I seen in my life a defenseman pinch in overtime for a defensive play. Of course the blame is on Phaneuf. Also, that couple seconds before the goal was lack of communication and playing way too conservative. It was a 2 on 1 for the most part. "What if Dion hadn't pinched?" I can see it now, NHL commercial and all.

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06-21-2013, 09:52 AM
  #420
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Blocked shots =/= skill as a shutdown defenseman. In fact, with the Oilers giving up as many shots as they do, I'd expect their D corps to have a higher blocked shots total.
Oilers: 1567 shots against
Leafs: 1543 shot against

Those 24 extra shots are sounding awfully important.

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06-21-2013, 09:57 AM
  #421
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Franson is a RHD and is best used on the powerplay. He's not going to Edmonton unless Petry is being dealt...end of story

having said that

Edmonton:
Franson
3rd round pick

Toronto:
Petry

I wouldn't do it...and neither would the Leafs/Oilers so Franson is a dead issue. Lets move on

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06-21-2013, 09:59 AM
  #422
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Originally Posted by BackhandToeyJoey View Post
Lol. Yes I play hockey, and never have I seen in my life a defenseman pinch in overtime for a defensive play. Of course the blame is on Phaneuf. Also, that couple seconds before the goal was lack of communication and playing way too conservative. It was a 2 on 1 for the most part. "What if Dion hadn't pinched?" I can see it now, NHL commercial and all.
No, the blame is not on Phaneuf. It's on Ryan O'Byrne. Dion made a gamble, which would have been fine if the rest of the players on the ice did what they were supposed to do.

And no, it wasn't a 2 on 1. It was Ryan O'Byrne with Krejci, and Kessel with Lucic.

And nice commercial idea. Does it come out at the same time as Edmonton's "What if they hadn't finished last so often" one?

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06-21-2013, 10:05 AM
  #423
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Originally Posted by BackhandToeyJoey View Post
Hey guy, remember when he pinched on that hit? Wowzers. The guy is pretty beneficial sometimes on D but come on, you can admit he is dumber than a post, even when he was in Calgary.

Having the chance to draft Monahan/Lindholm/Nichushkin in this talented draft is almost a blessing. Can't go wrong there.
Pinching from the points was a major portion of the Leafs gameplan vs. the Bruins. It's not just Dion being "dumb as a post"

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06-21-2013, 10:06 AM
  #424
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Originally Posted by HarrisonFord View Post
No, the blame is not on Phaneuf. It's on Ryan O'Byrne. Dion made a gamble, which would have been fine if the rest of the players on the ice did what they were supposed to do.

And no, it wasn't a 2 on 1. It was Ryan O'Byrne with Krejci, and Kessel with Lucic.

And nice commercial idea. Does it come out at the same time as Edmonton's "What if they hadn't finished last so often" one?
how about the blame is on Phaneuf for starting the rush with an untimely pinch, then on O'Byrne for playing the 2 on 2 wrong, then on Reimer for letting in a shot that I stop 9 out of 10 times?

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06-21-2013, 10:17 AM
  #425
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I think the only thing brewing here is a flame war.

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