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Kris Letang for Dougie Hamilton + 3rd

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Old
06-21-2013, 05:15 AM
  #51
slim399
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Originally Posted by Jussijuice View Post
This.

Plus Hamilton won't be demanding $7 million for a good while. If Letang was so amazing you would think Pens fans would be wanting to keep him, instead I see his name in just about every insane trade proposal under the Sun.

I'd take Hamilton over Letang, Cap being a huge reason.
Exactly. And Letang didn't break out until he was 24 and scored 50pts. I wouldn't be surprised if Dougie puts up 50pts next year in his first full season. I also wouldn't be surprised if he ends up playing most of the season on the top pair with Chara. Dougie is in line to become a more complete player and put up solid if not similar point totals as Letang. This and the fact they are 6 years apart in age which means 6 years until adding another monster contract for the cap strapped bruins.

The Bruins have become who they are buying drafting well. Bergeron, Marchand, Lucic, Krejci, Hamilton, Seguin. Trading for up and coming players with lower value Rask, Horton, Peverley, Kelly, Seidenberg, Campbell. And signing free agents Chara, Krug, Boychuck. Not buy trading bluechip prospects for stars with monster contracts in sight.

Nothing against Letang he is a great player, the trade just goes against PC's blueprint which has made the Bruins a consistent cup contender

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06-21-2013, 05:43 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by BruinsNeedaRussian View Post
How many series can you make this excuse before it can be attributed to him as a player?
Ummm, the two series before that he was second place in the entire league in points. As a defenseman.

And he finished this years playoffs as a plus player. For his career he is a plus player in the playoffs. Anything else I can help you with?

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06-21-2013, 05:46 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by slim399 View Post
Exactly. And Letang didn't break out until he was 24 and scored 50pts. I wouldn't be surprised if Dougie puts up 50pts next year in his first full season. I also wouldn't be surprised if he ends up playing most of the season on the top pair with Chara. Dougie is in line to become a more complete player and put up solid if not similar point totals as Letang. This and the fact they are 6 years apart in age which means 6 years until adding another monster contract for the cap strapped bruins.

The Bruins have become who they are buying drafting well. Bergeron, Marchand, Lucic, Krejci, Hamilton, Seguin. Trading for up and coming players with lower value Rask, Horton, Peverley, Kelly, Seidenberg, Campbell. And signing free agents Chara, Krug, Boychuck. Not buy trading bluechip prospects for stars with monster contracts in sight.

Nothing against Letang he is a great player, the trade just goes against PC's blueprint which has made the Bruins a consistent cup contender
Wow, all I see is an awful lot of treating assumption as if it were fact. I can see why you wouldnt want to take on that contract, or why you wouldnt want to give up Dougie. But lets wait and see what he does instead of assuming its a done deal.

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06-21-2013, 05:51 AM
  #54
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Just don't see why Boston would make this move. Hamilton is younger and has lots of potential while Letang is going to be a UFA. Not worth it for them.

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06-21-2013, 06:21 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
This, Letang in Boston would be a lot like Kaberle. Hamilton fits them like a glove assuming he keeps following his development trajectory.
Letang plays a completely different style to Kaberle.

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06-21-2013, 06:25 AM
  #56
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This makes no sense for either team. Boston have Hamilton in right now and he's a ready made replacement for when Chara leaves or if they need to buyout someone lower down. Pittsburgh wouldn't do this because of the value offered, it doesn't match Letang. Not to mention that Letang on the Bruins would put them back up against the cap. Bruins are one of a number of teams that can't afford Letang's new contract.

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06-21-2013, 06:28 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
People like parroting lazy scouting reports.
That is true, but I have seen Letang play pretty bad defensively year after year with my own eyes. He isn't always terrible, but he never plays good defensively consistently over a long stretch of games. He always has mistakes that some people learn not to make at a very young age. He just isn't that type of player, Letang is a good offensive defenseman and the team accepts that and puts him in a position to succeed just like they should.

Letang is not a guy that a team should have as a shutdown guy, he just isn't that player. The Penguins aren't going to put Derek Engelland as the main point man on the powerplay either.

Letang has holes in his game and they are in his defense.

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06-21-2013, 06:33 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
This makes no sense for either team. Boston have Hamilton in right now and he's a ready made replacement for when Chara leaves or if they need to buyout someone lower down. Pittsburgh wouldn't do this because of the value offered, it doesn't match Letang. Not to mention that Letang on the Bruins would put them back up against the cap. Bruins are one of a number of teams that can't afford Letang's new contract.
I don't think anyone is a replacement for Chara, Hamilton, at least up to this point couldn't replace him and I don't know if he ever will be able to play even close to as well defensively as Chara. He could pretty easily project to be a Letang type of player.

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06-21-2013, 06:43 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
I don't think anyone is a replacement for Chara, Hamilton, at least up to this point couldn't replace him and I don't know if he ever will be able to play even close to as well defensively as Chara. He could pretty easily project to be a Letang type of player.
I didn't mean it in terms of playing style but more of the possibility that he would become Boston's #1 after Chara retires. Although you could make that statement beforehand if Chara has a downward spiral.

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06-21-2013, 06:53 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Who judges players based on one series? Besides all of HF, I mean.



Leaf fans

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06-21-2013, 08:18 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
That is true, but I have seen Letang play pretty bad defensively year after year with my own eyes. He isn't always terrible, but he never plays good defensively consistently over a long stretch of games. He always has mistakes that some people learn not to make at a very young age. He just isn't that type of player, Letang is a good offensive defenseman and the team accepts that and puts him in a position to succeed just like they should.

Letang is not a guy that a team should have as a shutdown guy, he just isn't that player. The Penguins aren't going to put Derek Engelland as the main point man on the powerplay either.

Letang has holes in his game and they are in his defense.
Sorry, having watched Letang game-in and game-out over the years, I completely disagree with you. He's a dynamic player with the green light to be aggressive in his pinches and rushes, and he has the speed and wherewithal to stop chances coming back. He's nasty, extremely strong, and is great at cutting off chances along the wall.

He can hone his decision-making (and he had a particularly poor Boston series), but that's not uncommon for a young defenseman.

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06-21-2013, 12:07 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I don't need to make excuses for any other series.
He was far worse last year, but you'll never admit to any of his faults.

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06-21-2013, 12:26 PM
  #63
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even though im not a fan of either team I would say no for boston. krugg has showen promise and in 3-4 seasons could be a player very similar to letang and hamilton should be a solid dman with a nice long reach. just my opinion from what I have seen this season and playoffs. is letang worth what this proposal is asking? yup and maybe more for any team that needs a good off. minded dman

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06-21-2013, 12:43 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by intylerwetrust View Post
say Horton leaves and Savard retires

Deal?
Why would Boston do this ? I also think in 2 years Hamilton will be the better player . Not to mention the cap hit it going to take to resign Letang . Also remember Boston may have to deal some of there players for cap reasons . I am sure Boston would rather keep all the players they have then add a Letang at 7,000,000 and they can't even do that


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06-21-2013, 01:28 PM
  #65
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So we downgrade Letang to Hamilton for a 3rd round pick? Fantastic.

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06-21-2013, 01:33 PM
  #66
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If im a Bruins Fans, I dont want to trade Hamilton for Letang straight up.

Hamilton will be better in 3 years.



- And yes, I think he will and I hate the Bruins.

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06-21-2013, 01:38 PM
  #67
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Why would Pittsburgh ever do this?

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06-21-2013, 01:46 PM
  #68
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In my opinion this is actually a really good trade for both teams, from an outsider perspective.

Letang's value has never been loer on these boards because he had a "bad" playoffs where he put up 16 points in 15 games but looked weak defensively, and most of the people on these messageboards exclusively watch players in the playoffs and don't see them in the regular season and thus are hugely biased through recency bias.

All that to say, Letang is a phenomenal defenseman and real GMs realize this. He is a top 10 defenseman in the league without question.

That said, Pittsburgh very well may need to trade him because they can't afford him. Boston is a perfect fit because Chara will be retiring soon and they will need a new #1 defenseman and will have the salary to afford him to boot. Now, Letang is obviously a very different player than Chara, but he will fit in well as their new #1 defenseman when he is gone.

As for value, Hamilton looks to be a great defenseman with top pairing potential and as such I'm not convinced Pittsburgh will get much more than an elite defenseman prospect for Letang. (For example, from the Sens about as much a I could offer would be Turris, Ceci, 1st under condition that Letang signs with us upon trade; I imagine you'd rather Doug.)

I also anticipate a deal will not be made unless Boston was given permission to speak with Letang regarding an extension upon trading.

I think that both teams are not liking this trade (despite the fact that it addresses their organizational needs: Pittsburgh to clear cap space, Boston to get a replacement for Chara and continue to compete NOW while Chara is still around) is a sign that this is a fairly balanced trade.

Good proposal OP.

EDIT: And yes, I'm aware that you don't trade elite players to make cap room, and 99% of the time I agree with you. But Pittsburgh just flat out has too much money tied up in a handful of players and I personally think downgrading Letang to Hamilton (who may be a top pairing defenseman as early as next season) makes a lot of sense if it'll save them $6M per annum for the next 5 years til Doug cashes in.

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06-21-2013, 02:10 PM
  #69
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This is a bad deal for both teams, it's worse for the Pens though.

Let's assume Seguin would be a UFA in 2014. Let's assume that he want's 7-8 mill. Then let's assume a Pens fan proposed an asinine trade proposal of Beau Bennett and a 3rd for Tyler Seguin b/c Bennett has potential to be as good if not better than Seguin.

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06-21-2013, 02:14 PM
  #70
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In my opinion this is actually a really good trade for both teams, from an outsider perspective.

Letang's value has never been loer on these boards because he had a "bad" playoffs where he put up 16 points in 15 games but looked weak defensively, and most of the people on these messageboards exclusively watch players in the playoffs and don't see them in the regular season and thus are hugely biased through recency bias.

All that to say, Letang is a phenomenal defenseman and real GMs realize this. He is a top 10 defenseman in the league without question.

That said, Pittsburgh very well may need to trade him because they can't afford him. Boston is a perfect fit because Chara will be retiring soon and they will need a new #1 defenseman and will have the salary to afford him to boot. Now, Letang is obviously a very different player than Chara, but he will fit in well as their new #1 defenseman when he is gone.

As for value, Hamilton looks to be a great defenseman with top pairing potential and as such I'm not convinced Pittsburgh will get much more than an elite defenseman prospect for Letang. (For example, from the Sens about as much a I could offer would be Turris, Ceci, 1st under condition that Letang signs with us upon trade; I imagine you'd rather Doug.)

I also anticipate a deal will not be made unless Boston was given permission to speak with Letang regarding an extension upon trading.

I think that both teams are not liking this trade (despite the fact that it addresses their organizational needs: Pittsburgh to clear cap space, Boston to get a replacement for Chara and continue to compete NOW while Chara is still around) is a sign that this is a fairly balanced trade.

Good proposal OP.

EDIT: And yes, I'm aware that you don't trade elite players to make cap room, and 99% of the time I agree with you. But Pittsburgh just flat out has too much money tied up in a handful of players and I personally think downgrading Letang to Hamilton (who may be a top pairing defenseman as early as next season) makes a lot of sense if it'll save them $6M per annum for the next 5 years til Doug cashes in.
Nice write up, except for the fact that you completely overlooked Boston needing to clear Cap space also. They can't take on a $7mil AAV. Chara is also nowhere near retiring. He's got 5 years left on his contract and is still playing a an extremely high level. He's a physical freak who takes his training to an elite level.

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06-21-2013, 02:21 PM
  #71
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I'd never do this if I was Boston. Even if letang was extended. Why trade an excellent prospect on an elc for an extremely expensive defenseman? Boston is going to battle the cap for the foreseeable future.

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06-21-2013, 02:25 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by mwalluk View Post
This is a bad deal for both teams, it's worse for the Pens though.

Let's assume Seguin would be a UFA in 2014. Let's assume that he want's 7-8 mill. Then let's assume a Pens fan proposed an asinine trade proposal of Beau Bennett and a 3rd for Tyler Seguin b/c Bennett has potential to be as good if not better than Seguin.
Except for the fact that Seguin is younger than Bennett and has a 65+ pt season under his belt compared to Bennett who was on pace for 55 points... in the AHL this year. Whereas dougie is 6 yrs younger than letang and will undoubttedly improve. Terrible analogy.

To put it in perspective, when Segs potted 29 goals and 67 points, Bennett was still at DU.

Dougie has all the tools and the upside to be a better defenseman than Letang. Letang was still in juniors when he was dougies age and (obviously) will never have his size. Dougie played physical, was one pace for a 30 pt season with limited TOI and limited PPTOI. Only time will tell if he'll end up as a better Dman, however. Just saying the tools are all there.

Even if I wanted to make this trade, which I don't, we don't have the cap space. Letangs a great PMD but not what we need at this point in time.


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06-21-2013, 02:29 PM
  #73
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Nice write up, except for the fact that you completely overlooked Boston needing to clear Cap space also. They can't take on a $7mil AAV. Chara is also nowhere near retiring. He's got 5 years left on his contract and is still playing a an extremely high level. He's a physical freak who takes his training to an elite level.
Fair enough to the cap statement - didn't realize they were so pressed next year as well.

As for Chara, I don't think he lasts as a #1 defenseman much more than 2 years.

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06-21-2013, 02:31 PM
  #74
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Except for the fact that Seguin is younger than Bennett and has a 65+ pt season under his belt compared to Bennett who was on pace for 55 points... in the AHL this year. Whereas dougie is 6 yrs younger than letang and will undoubttedly improve. Terrible analogy.

Dougie has all the tools and the upside to be a better defenseman than Letang. Letang was still in juniors when he was dougies age and (obviously) will never have his size. Dougie played physical, was one pace for a 30 pt season with limited TOI and limited PPTOI.

Even if I wanted to make this trade, which I don't, we don't have the cap space. Letangs a great PMD but not what we need at this point in time.
You do know Bennett is only 2 months older right?

Granted, the analogy wasn't great, but was all I could think of at work.

Don't misconstrue the analogy, I'm not putting down any Bruins players. Dougie very well may be better than Letang, but then again he may not. Yes, he's showing glimpses of becoming a really good player, but to blatantly say he will be better is flat out wrong when no one can predict the future.

This deal sucks for both teams. For Boston you don't have the cap to make it work. For the Pens, we get fleeced for RIGHT NOW. The value isn't there RIGHT NOW. The Pens aren't rebuilding, so it doesn't help them RIGHT NOW.

Last time I check, Bylsma is still the coach. If how he handled Bennett and Despres is any indication, Dougie wouldn't crack the lineup for 2-3 years lol.

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06-21-2013, 02:48 PM
  #75
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Yes I know, but 2 months older is a lot different than 6 years younger.

And I didn't know saying "has all the tools and upside to be better than Letang" is blatantly saying he will be better than Letang. You're just putting words in my mouth because your analogy was bad.

I'm not discrediting Letang either. I love watching him skate and he's had a few great years. Would be excellent if Pitt could find him a decent partner. He's just not what we need at the cap hit he will be looking for.

PS your remark about Bennett doesn't make any sense. How were they supposed to play him earlier in his career? He was at DU, I know this because I go there.

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