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Flyers sign Mark Streit to a multi-year deal [4 yrs, $21m; $5.25 AAV] (post #1)

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06-20-2013, 04:55 PM
  #926
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest View Post
Why? Our non top 10 picks have been on par with a lot of other teams top 10 picks. All the guys I listed above except Jvr were non top 10 picks. That's besides the point though because we're already there. Giroux, Voracek, Schenn, Couts, Simmonds, Laughton, 11th overall. There's your young core there.
Outside of Giroux and Laughton, all those guys were traded for by the current management! You want them to stay the course now, after making all these moves that have given us the core we have? That's fine. I have no problem with that, but don't call out the management and say Snider needs to step down, while at the same time talking about our young core.

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A change in philosophy does not mean a change to the polar opposite. I don't even want to replace them really I just want them to ease up on the throttle. They're too all in. They're all in all the time, and sure that's fun cause it's like watching a real life version of yourself play NHL on Xbox, but it isn't the best way to do things.
Well that is a different story. A change in philosophy is different than saying Ed Snider needs to step down or that the Flyers will never win with Ed Snider at the helm. This argument started because someone was bad mouthing Ed Snider saying they'll never win with him at the helm, insinuating that he's the problem.

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The GM's in LA in Chicago did not commit to staying the course when they built their winners. They made changes, that's the only way you break the cycle of sucking, unless someone you draft is ridiculous like Ovechkin or Crosby. They made smart decisions and brought in the right type of players, not old overpriced vets that we have been bringing in for a long time now.
The GMs in LA and Chicago had years to draft players in the top half of the draft. Pretty much a decade each. Not all were gems, but the cores of their teams are made up of essentially players drafted during their ****** years (CHI: Toews, Seabrook, Kane, (plus some others drafted in later rounds during the ****** years like Duncan Keith); LA: Kopitar, Brown, Doughty, Voynov (32nd pick)). It's really hard to argue that drafting these cornerstone, all-star, award winning players with these picks was all management and the fact that they were drafting so high because they were bad the prior year doesn't impact it. I understand that having good management obviously helps. But it also helps to be picking in the top of the draft consistently. So like I said...you want a team like Chicago, get ready to suck for a few years. Show me a team that consistently drafts in the second half of the draft that has as good a core and is as successful as Chicago. You likely won't be able to find one outside of maybe Detroit and NJ.

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The move for Grossmann was a great one, and a good use of a 2nd round pick. He got a player who was in his 20's and who could help the team then and in the future. That's a lot different than trading for Modry, or Kubina, or signing guys like Lilja to dumb deals. I'm tired of always having to stomach those kinds of deals because we need to make the playoffs and get bounced in the 1st round.
There absolutely have been good moves and bad moves. No doubt about that. For the record, since the 1995 playoffs the Flyers have lost in the first round six times, the same amount of times they have been to the ECF or Cup finals (plus missing the playoffs twice and getting to round two 4 times). So this notion that they are seemingly making these moves and are not actually competing is pretty far from the truth, unless of course your definition of competing is different than making to the ECF/Finals more than the amount of times you are being eliminated in the first round.

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You have to stop acting like the only alternative to Snider and Holmgren is the front office of Columbus. That's not how it works. It's not full bore all the time, or we don't care about winning. There is a middle ground.
That's not what I am saying at all. What I am saying is that winning a Cup is not as simple as getting rid of Ed Snider and Homer and taking the team in a different direction. To win a Cup everything has to be perfect AND you have to get lucky.

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06-20-2013, 07:54 PM
  #927
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Dang this thread is crazy. If he preforms like he has (50 points a season and decent defense) for the next 2 seasons, and plays okay the 3rd season. I can live a bad/retired 4th season.

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06-20-2013, 11:14 PM
  #928
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Originally Posted by DrHamburg View Post
Dang this thread is crazy. If he preforms like he has (50 points a season and decent defense) for the next 2 seasons, and plays okay the 3rd season. I can live a bad/retired 4th season.
If he retires year 4 and that 5.25 cap gets us, we will be in a bad spot. A cup in the meantime would help me deal though

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06-20-2013, 11:30 PM
  #929
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If I knew I was going to make 5.25m, and it was the last time in my career I had the opportunity to make that kind of money, no way in hell I'd retire. If I was hurting I'd just have mgmt LTIR me for a year so I could still make the money.

It's simple business logic...assuming he's not a moron.

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06-21-2013, 12:39 AM
  #930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillyfan28 View Post
If he retires year 4 and that 5.25 cap gets us, we will be in a bad spot. A cup in the meantime would help me deal though
Who in the world walks away from 5.25 mil....besides crazy tim thomas.

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06-21-2013, 01:27 AM
  #931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillyfan28 View Post
If he retires year 4 and that 5.25 cap gets us, we will be in a bad spot. A cup in the meantime would help me deal though
If we knew he was going to retire, we'd probably buy him out

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06-21-2013, 05:45 AM
  #932
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
If we knew he was going to retire, we'd probably buy him out
If you buy out a 35+ contract, doesn't the cap hit remain? I thought the 35+ rule was basically that the cap hit stays no matter what. I'm not a CBA expert so I obviously could be wrong.

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06-21-2013, 06:56 AM
  #933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
If you buy out a 35+ contract, doesn't the cap hit remain? I thought the 35+ rule was basically that the cap hit stays no matter what. I'm not a CBA expert so I obviously could be wrong.
I don't think there's a part in the CBA abiout a buyout of 35+ contracts staying

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06-21-2013, 07:36 AM
  #934
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Mark Streit is not the Joker. He's not going to set fire to a pile of cash.

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06-21-2013, 07:54 AM
  #935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
I don't think there's a part in the CBA abiout a buyout of 35+ contracts staying
Good deal. I just did the calculator on CapGeek and assuming that it is accurate, if he is bought out before his final year it will be two years of $1.75 million. Not ideal, obviously, but if they can get three years of high level play out of him, they can then decide on whether or not it is worth it to go in with the full cap hit and sub par play (or the dead cap space if he retires) or buy him out and take a smaller lump for two years.

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06-21-2013, 08:29 AM
  #936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
If you buy out a 35+ contract, doesn't the cap hit remain? I thought the 35+ rule was basically that the cap hit stays no matter what. I'm not a CBA expert so I obviously could be wrong.
Buyout would mean you retain a portion of his cap hit, right? If he retires, it's the entire cap hit?

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06-21-2013, 08:54 AM
  #937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
Buyout would mean you retain a portion of his cap hit, right? If he retires, it's the entire cap hit?
Yeah, I just wasn't sure if there was some sort of restriction with the 35+ rule, like you can buyout a 35+ contract to get the contract space back, but the cap hit still stays. It appears that isn't the case and he can be bought out free and clear of any 35+ restrictions, though depending on when he were bought out the remaining caphit and remaining years would be different.

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06-21-2013, 11:53 AM
  #938
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Correct me if I'm wrong. But if a player has 2 years remaining on a contract and retires, he doesn't get paid those 2 years. Much like we did with rathje, you just say he has an injury and goes on LTIR, the player gets paid and the team gets cap space. Pronger will not retire until his contract is up for the same reason. I can't see where a player would rather retire when the team would rather pay him for staying he's hurt yet still wants to play.

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06-21-2013, 12:47 PM
  #939
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why is everyone so up in arms about the length... he commands a power play and has a wicked shot, I would also argue that he is better defensively carle, there is no reason with the players on this roster he will be playing with that he scores 50+ and plays 21 minutes a night. He was drafted at an old age, and does not have many miles on him. He will be 39-40 when the deal is over, it isn't exactly ancient for a defenseman in todays nhl and the style he plays.


Gonchar got a 2 year deal similar money at age 39, and streit is a better player.

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06-21-2013, 02:27 PM
  #940
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Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
why is everyone so up in arms about the length... he commands a power play and has a wicked shot, I would also argue that he is better defensively carle, there is no reason with the players on this roster he will be playing with that he scores 50+ and plays 21 minutes a night. He was drafted at an old age, and does not have many miles on him. He will be 39-40 when the deal is over, it isn't exactly ancient for a defenseman in todays nhl and the style he plays.


Gonchar got a 2 year deal similar money at age 39, and streit is a better player
Umm, no, he is not a better player than Gonchar AND it is not really even that close


Last edited by MiamiScreamingEagles: 06-21-2013 at 06:23 PM. Reason: Corrected quote feature
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06-21-2013, 02:40 PM
  #941
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Originally Posted by rjmkrm View Post
Umm, no, he is not a better player than Gonchar AND it is not really even that close
It's pretty close. I wouldn't say Streit is better but he is on the same level. Gonchar in his prime is way ahead of Streit now (and in Streit's prime), but 39 year old Gonchar = Current Mark Streit. I am skeptical that 39 year old Mark Streit would be on the same level as 39 year old Gonchar though.

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06-21-2013, 02:48 PM
  #942
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Originally Posted by rjmkrm View Post
Umm, no, he is not a better player than Gonchar AND it is not really even that close
Well that's debatable but the point is that a player similar to Streit who is 3 years older got a 2 year deal making $5mil a year. Streit got $250k more a year. Gonchar set the bar for Streit's deal.


Last edited by MiamiScreamingEagles: 06-21-2013 at 06:24 PM. Reason: Fixed misuse of prior post quoted
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06-21-2013, 05:56 PM
  #943
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Originally Posted by rjmkrm View Post

Umm, no, he is not a better player than Gonchar AND it is not really even that close
Actually it's pretty close


Last edited by MiamiScreamingEagles: 06-21-2013 at 06:24 PM. Reason: Quote featured misused.
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06-21-2013, 06:18 PM
  #944
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Originally Posted by markzab View Post
If I knew I was going to make 5.25m, and it was the last time in my career I had the opportunity to make that kind of money, no way in hell I'd retire. If I was hurting I'd just have mgmt LTIR me for a year so I could still make the money.

It's simple business logic...assuming he's not a moron.
too many If/I's.

I agree with your point, but i've never been a potential 39 year old man at the tail end of an nhl career. Maybe the Flyers are horrendous by that time, and while not injured per se, the wear and tear on his body has wilted away his will to play 1 final season.

See: Jake Plummer, the man who would rather retire then play for the TB Bucs

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06-21-2013, 07:30 PM
  #945
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Actually it's pretty close
Not really. Streit is much better. Gonchar is a turnover machine who can't play any d.

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06-21-2013, 08:08 PM
  #946
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Not really. Streit is much better. Gonchar is a turnover machine who can't play any d.
Exactly... this isn't the same gonchar that was part of those penguins runs to the finals, streit is harder to play against defensively, and his offensive abilities are on par.

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06-22-2013, 12:58 PM
  #947
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the money I am fine with, he was getting that with whomever signed him, I just don't like the length at his age

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06-22-2013, 01:29 PM
  #948
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Originally Posted by Phillyfan28 View Post
too many If/I's.

I agree with your point, but i've never been a potential 39 year old man at the tail end of an nhl career. Maybe the Flyers are horrendous by that time, and while not injured per se, the wear and tear on his body has wilted away his will to play 1 final season.

See: Jake Plummer, the man who would rather retire then play for the TB Bucs
I know this is all hypothetical but I don't even see how that's possible.

As others have said, I'm ok with the money but I would've liked for this deal to be a yr shorter. With that said I really don't see any cap problems resulting from this so I don't really care.

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06-22-2013, 03:43 PM
  #949
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Resident troll....

I really think you guys will be "unimpressed" by him. I hope he works out for you guys but, I think by game 50 you guys will be regretting this. I truly hope i'm wrong and will check back and see if you guys/gals are happy with him.

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06-22-2013, 04:04 PM
  #950
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Originally Posted by MattMartin View Post
Resident troll....

I really think you guys will be "unimpressed" by him. I hope he works out for you guys but, I think by game 50 you guys will be regretting this. I truly hope i'm wrong and will check back and see if you guys/gals are happy with him.
I think people are not going to be happy unless he plays on a higher level than people are expecting. He's on a big contract and he is old and Holmgren made move. He's going to have to exceed expectations in order for people to be happy about him.

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