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Sather Speaks: Lack of Puck Possession Had "A lot to do" with Torts' firing

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06-20-2013, 05:49 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Also, as much as it might seem like the "losing the team" thing is just an excuse floated out there by Sather and management, there is only one reason why I buy it.

Because I saw what the team played like in game 4 against the Bruins before the fluke goal. They looked like a team completely unresponsive to the man behind the bench. Most of us have seen coaches who have lost teams. Most of that game was exactly what it looks like. So, while rumors of the team quitting on Tortorella may be unsubstantiated, it's pretty easy to believe from observation.
Eh, I dont know. When Renney's 08-09 team lost 10-2 - thats losing a team. It didnt get to that point with Tortorella. They have a solid, but not spectacular, effort most nights.

While I constantly harp on the opinion that I dont think this roster is championship caliber, I do like a few pieces.

I absolutely hated that 08-09 team.

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06-20-2013, 05:57 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Eh, I dont know. When Renney's 08-09 team lost 10-2 - thats losing a team. It didnt get to that point with Tortorella. They have a solid, but not spectacular, effort most nights.

While I constantly harp on the opinion that I dont think this roster is championship caliber, I do like a few pieces.

I absolutely hated that 08-09 team.
The effort looked exactly the same to me. The difference is that the team had a ethos of playing for each other, not just for the coach, in 11-12. Some of that carries over. The 08-09 team had none of that.

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06-20-2013, 06:12 PM
  #153
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The effort looked exactly the same to me. The difference is that the team had a ethos of playing for each other, not just for the coach, in 11-12. Some of that carries over. The 08-09 team had none of that.
Great teams come together in those types of situations. Hell, our singular championship in 73 years had a situation like that on steroids.

Is it possible that this roster is mentally weak in addition to being good, but not great?

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06-20-2013, 06:13 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Great teams come together in those types of situations. Hell, our singular championship in 73 years had a situation like that on steroids.

Is it possible that this roster is mentally weak in addition to being good, but not great?
I think we lost some of our mental fortitude in the Nash deal, losing Sauer and Staal, losing Fedotenko and Prust.

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06-20-2013, 06:25 PM
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I have a question for the Tort defenders out there. How many other teams are in the NHL playing the same style as Torts and doing well? Better yet, how many other teams are playing the same style at all? Pretty sure its.... zero.

So he is either the greatest coach in the NHL with this amazing system that no one else knows about, and he just lacks the personnel to win with it. Or every other coach in the NHL would never think to run a 6 goalie defense, 3 forwards behind the net offense.

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06-20-2013, 06:29 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by MadHookUp View Post
I have a question for the Tort defenders out there. How many other teams are in the NHL playing the same style as Torts and doing well? Better yet, how many other teams are playing the same style at all? Pretty sure its.... zero.

So he is either the greatest coach in the NHL with this amazing system that no one else knows about, and he just lacks the personnel to win with it. Or every other coach in the NHL would never think to run a 6 goalie defense, 3 forwards behind the net offense.
Claude Julien. Probably why he called Tortorella a good coach after the series.

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06-20-2013, 07:19 PM
  #157
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Claude Julien. Probably why he called Tortorella a good coach after the series.
exactly! and the guy has a chance to win 2 cups in 4yrs.. i was a big advocate of torts.. and i still think he was a great coach.. and deserved another year..


guy is a good coach, anyone who thinks otherwise is crazy..

i just hate how in professional sports, the players dictate every move.. players wanted torts out so they fired his ass.. these guys get paid amazing money one could dream about and play a game for a living..

2 things bother me the most

- that killer instinct and wanting it more then the other team wasnt there, which is why we lost to boston

- which goes with the last part i said.. boston, chicago, pitt and LA have one thing in common...

they all have been together as a team for 2,3 even 4yrs.. you build a team, grow as a team and win as a team.. you need each one along with a desire an determination as an individual and team collectively if you want to win the cup..

2011-12 rangers had that and we flushed it down the drain..

everyone knows when a team is special and that season all of us ranger fans felt that... now we're back to square one and have to retool and build some of our team and hopefully get back to that which, i know we could be but we have to trim the fat and get that cohesiveness back..

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06-20-2013, 08:09 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
Claude Julien. Probably why he called Tortorella a good coach after the series.
I've been a pretty vocal Torts critic, but I won't argue the truth of this. It has seemed like the Rangers were trying to follow the Bruins model over the last couple of years. Julien's system isn't quite as extreme though, particularly when it comes to collapsing/shot blocking. Same general approach though.

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06-20-2013, 08:54 PM
  #159
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when a coaches time is up, its usually due to the team no longer responding to or performing for him. after that, the wins stop and the room tension becomes an issue.

i believe the players believed in torts and his system for most of his tenure here. i really do. torts is very persuasive and to their collective credit, the players bought into his system completely. they played hard for him and the roster was constructed to fit the torts system.

players usually will not squawk mid season. they play hockey, they do their jobs and they never stop believing. until the season ends....

exit interviews would have been entertaining this year to say the least.

when henrik lundqvist turns his back on you, in his walk year, you are toast.
Lundqvist and Biron have both gone on record this week supporting Torts and saying they were not looking for a coaching change.

I think another poster on here has it right. A bunch of good coaches became available this summer and Sather couldn't resist but jump into the coaching free agent frenzy. I'd wager Torts talking publicly about the lack of depth (that Sather traded away) was the straw that broke the camel's back.

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06-20-2013, 09:09 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by dethomas07 View Post
exactly! and the guy has a chance to win 2 cups in 4yrs.. i was a big advocate of torts.. and i still think he was a great coach.. and deserved another year..


guy is a good coach, anyone who thinks otherwise is crazy..

i just hate how in professional sports, the players dictate every move.. players wanted torts out so they fired his ass.. these guys get paid amazing money one could dream about and play a game for a living..

2 things bother me the most

- that killer instinct and wanting it more then the other team wasnt there, which is why we lost to boston

- which goes with the last part i said.. boston, chicago, pitt and LA have one thing in common...

they all have been together as a team for 2,3 even 4yrs.. you build a team, grow as a team and win as a team.. you need each one along with a desire an determination as an individual and team collectively if you want to win the cup..

2011-12 rangers had that and we flushed it down the drain..


everyone knows when a team is special and that season all of us ranger fans felt that... now we're back to square one and have to retool and build some of our team and hopefully get back to that which, i know we could be but we have to trim the fat and get that cohesiveness back..
Strongly agree with the bolded part.

The problem is, in a frenzied market like New York, where there are tons of casual fans and not-quite-knowledgeable media, it's almost impossible to actually build a real team from the ground up. Fans see any bit of success and suddenly raise their expectations thinking that next year will automatically be better, not realizing the path to a championship is never a straight line upwards. Media goes nuts with rumors and speculation over every free agent out there. 'Big market syndrome' hits with people demanding every recognizable name in the market. People need to be more patient.

If I were to point the finger at anyone, it would be Slats. Yes, when a guy like Nash is available, you do what you can to make a trade, but it's up to Slats to know his dressing room and how the players fit together. Which players are glue and which are scraps. He let some glue walk away in Prust and Dubinsky. Sometimes you have to give your glue guys an extra $500k or whatever to keep them around, even if it's 'just' a 4th liner, ya know? You can't afford to lose the positive vibe in the dressing room.

And a big part of the problem in New York is the lack of communication within the organization as a whole. The coaching staff wasn't on the same page as the GM, the training staff wasn't in clear communication with the coaches, seems like a general disconnect all over. Seems like some paranoia in upper management (Gordon, Dolan, Slats?? who?) made everything a bit too hush-hush at all levels.

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06-21-2013, 08:21 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
Lundqvist and Biron have both gone on record this week supporting Torts and saying they were not looking for a coaching change.

I think another poster on here has it right. A bunch of good coaches became available this summer and Sather couldn't resist but jump into the coaching free agent frenzy. I'd wager Torts talking publicly about the lack of depth (that Sather traded away) was the straw that broke the camel's back.
words are cheap. deeds are precious.

of course they will say that. no one wants to see a guy get fired. especially if the team underperformed and failed to attain their goal. good soldiers do the right thing when it comes to on the record press stuff.

in the end however, it was obvious to me that this team was no longer responding to torts. his days were numbered. this team was dog tired of trying to win games playing the way torts demanded. and hank, most of all, was probably sick of getting 2 goals a night max to play with. without hank this season, we lose alot more games.

torts can only coach one way. period. he cant change nor was he interested in trying to adapt.

whether slats saw it or cared, is up for discussion. but to me, when those interviews came and key players let it be known that the team had tuned him out, slats had to let torts go.

and to your point about any supposed lack of depth, i still contend that torts was in on every deal. he and slats constructed this team the way he wanted it. a team full of grinding forwards who played a defensive game first.

boring. ineffective. noncreative. listless. reactive. losing. hockey.

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06-21-2013, 08:32 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
Lundqvist and Biron have both gone on record this week supporting Torts and saying they were not looking for a coaching change.

I think another poster on here has it right. A bunch of good coaches became available this summer and Sather couldn't resist but jump into the coaching free agent frenzy. I'd wager Torts talking publicly about the lack of depth (that Sather traded away) was the straw that broke the camel's back.
Get rid of the smaller problem who tried to address the big problem with last year's team. Just pathetic on Sather's part.

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06-21-2013, 08:44 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
words are cheap. deeds are precious.

of course they will say that. no one wants to see a guy get fired. especially if the team underperformed and failed to attain their goal. good soldiers do the right thing when it comes to on the record press stuff.

in the end however, it was obvious to me that this team was no longer responding to torts. his days were numbered. this team was dog tired of trying to win games playing the way torts demanded. and hank, most of all, was probably sick of getting 2 goals a night max to play with. without hank this season, we lose alot more games.

torts can only coach one way. period. he cant change nor was he interested in trying to adapt.

whether slats saw it or cared, is up for discussion. but to me, when those interviews came and key players let it be known that the team had tuned him out, slats had to let torts go.

and to your point about any supposed lack of depth, i still contend that torts was in on every deal. he and slats constructed this team the way he wanted it. a team full of grinding forwards who played a defensive game first.

boring. ineffective. noncreative. listless. reactive. losing. hockey.
Very nicely done. My thoughts exactly. He should've never been hired. Torts is a very strong coach. Strength often confused with skill and talent in life. Hockey is no different.

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06-21-2013, 08:47 AM
  #164
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Very nicely done. My thoughts exactly. He should've never been hired. Torts is a very strong coach. Strength often confused with skill and talent in life. Hockey is no different.
Dont know why this took me years to realize, but its becoming more and more evident that some posters will never be happy with the coach -- especially if they keep having this inflated sense of how good the roster actually is.

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06-21-2013, 08:53 AM
  #165
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words are cheap. deeds are precious.
Team never gave up in the playoffs. They played as well as they could against Boston, and just met up with a better team. Or are we not counting those particular "deeds"?

Quote:
of course they will say that. no one wants to see a guy get fired. especially if the team underperformed and failed to attain their goal. good soldiers do the right thing when it comes to on the record press stuff.

in the end however, it was obvious to me that this team was no longer responding to torts. his days were numbered. this team was dog tired of trying to win games playing the way torts demanded. and hank, most of all, was probably sick of getting 2 goals a night max to play with. without hank this season, we lose alot more games

torts can only coach one way. period. he cant change nor was he interested in trying to adapt.
...which is why Tampa and New York played the exact same style. Oh wait....no, they didn't. Guess Torts can actually coach more than one way.

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whether slats saw it or cared, is up for discussion. but to me, when those interviews came and key players let it be known that the team had tuned him out, slats had to let torts go.

and to your point about any supposed lack of depth, i still contend that torts was in on every deal. he and slats constructed this team the way he wanted it. a team full of grinding forwards who played a defensive game first.

boring. ineffective. noncreative. listless. reactive. losing. hockey.
Yes, because New York's depth is completely on par with Chicago and Boston like we're seeing in the finals. Yep, only difference is the jerseys, amirite?

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06-21-2013, 08:55 AM
  #166
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Dont know why this took me years to realize, but its becoming more and more evident that some posters will never be happy with the coach -- especially if they keep having this inflated sense of how good the roster actually is.
I don't disagree. Yet I was quite happy with Renney. By getting AV Sather seems to correct his misdeed in dismissing Tom. This is something Slats is well known for when it comes to FA signings. I don't believe in his reading of team mind, he just wants to keep himslf relevant. That is what he is good at.

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06-21-2013, 09:30 PM
  #167
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Canucks about to name Torts as new head coach....

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06-22-2013, 08:58 AM
  #168
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
when a coaches time is up, its usually due to the team no longer responding to or performing for him. after that, the wins stop and the room tension becomes an issue.

i believe the players believed in torts and his system for most of his tenure here. i really do. torts is very persuasive and to their collective credit, the players bought into his system completely. they played hard for him and the roster was constructed to fit the torts system.

players usually will not squawk mid season. they play hockey, they do their jobs and they never stop believing. until the season ends....

exit interviews would have been entertaining this year to say the least.

when henrik lundqvist turns his back on you, in his walk year, you are toast.
According to Expressen, Hank sent an e mail, to ny post, and denied strongly that he had something to do with the firing of Torts.
That was not his role, putting pressure on the front office, to fire a coach. He said that he had a great relationship with Tortella, and hes focus was on doing his best in the goal. And that Torts was challenging him in a positive way, to be able to do his job.

On a sidenote, do you guys believe the Rangers will bring back Zuccarello? And if so, will AV have a positive impact on him on and of the ice?

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06-22-2013, 11:01 AM
  #169
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Must be nice to be Glen Sather. Every time he opens his mouth he reminds me why I'm glad he usually stays in the shadows.

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06-22-2013, 11:22 AM
  #170
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Must be nice to be Glen Sather. Every time he opens his mouth he reminds me why I'm glad he usually stays in the shadows.
What was that when he said he liked more scoring? I never thought I'd hear an NHL GM say that he prefers a 6-5 game. That was just weird.

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06-22-2013, 11:55 AM
  #171
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When Sather said that he prefers a 6-5 game to a 1-0 game, I thought "wow, I hope Lundqvist isn't watching."

Sather kept talking about how the game has changed but it sure sounds like he was advocating for the wide open Oilers hockey we saw in the 80s.

Fortunately, AV was talking about a more balanced approach rather than the firewagon hockey Slats was clamoring for. Most of the recent cup winners have played excellent defense in addition to having scoring capacity.

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06-22-2013, 12:09 PM
  #172
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What was that when he said he liked more scoring? I never thought I'd hear an NHL GM say that he prefers a 6-5 game. That was just weird.
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When Sather said that he prefers a 6-5 game to a 1-0 game, I thought "wow, I hope Lundqvist isn't watching."

Sather kept talking about how the game has changed but it sure sounds like he was advocating for the wide open Oilers hockey we saw in the 80s.
This, is exactly it. Glen Sather, of all people, talking about a need to recognize the game is changing. Pot meet kettle. Which over the hill enforcer are you gonna sign this offseason Glen to address team toughness?

Not to mention...I hope he is aware the SCF has had 2-1 and 2-0 games. I guess I should give the old man a break I'm sure his memory is going.

Maybe if the Rangers actually had, ya know, more than 1 top line player they would be able to win games 6-5 in the playoffs. That's an exageration but you get my point. No **** teams need to score to win games. They also need talent to score Glenny. That's your job and by all accounts you have been an abject failure.

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Fortunately, AV was talking about a more balanced approach rather than the firewagon hockey Slats was clamoring for. Most of the recent cup winners have played excellent defense in addition to having scoring capacity.
I just have my fingers crossed you're right. AV is saying the right things that's for sure. I hope it works on the ice.

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06-22-2013, 01:10 PM
  #173
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words are cheap. deeds are precious.

of course they will say that. no one wants to see a guy get fired. especially if the team underperformed and failed to attain their goal. good soldiers do the right thing when it comes to on the record press stuff.

in the end however, it was obvious to me that this team was no longer responding to torts. his days were numbered. this team was dog tired of trying to win games playing the way torts demanded. and hank, most of all, was probably sick of getting 2 goals a night max to play with. without hank this season, we lose alot more games.

torts can only coach one way. period. he cant change nor was he interested in trying to adapt.

whether slats saw it or cared, is up for discussion. but to me, when those interviews came and key players let it be known that the team had tuned him out, slats had to let torts go.

and to your point about any supposed lack of depth, i still contend that torts was in on every deal. he and slats constructed this team the way he wanted it. a team full of grinding forwards who played a defensive game first.

boring. ineffective. noncreative. listless. reactive. losing. hockey.
Reactive is a good way to put it. The collapsing, dump-and-chase system is the epitome of that. We should playing a proactive system.

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06-25-2013, 03:35 AM
  #174
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That happens with every team. Sometime their dump ins did work. And sometimes they moved the puck through the neutral zone and scored goals. That's hockey.

The Rangers finished 15th in scoring, four spots ahead of Vancouver and only one spot behind Boston. If Tort's offensive style was so out of touch they would have finished near they bottom, they didn't. 15th is pretty good considering they don't have a legit offensive superstar or a power play qb.
Dig deeper into that stat and you'll see 22% of the team's goals were in the last 6 games vs. the garbage of the East.

I remember the Rangers were battling with Florida as the worst offensive team for a large chunk of the season.

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06-25-2013, 03:40 AM
  #175
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Dig deeper into that stat and you'll see 22% of the team's goals were in the last 6 games vs. the garbage of the East.

I remember the Rangers were battling with Florida as the worst offensive team for a large chunk of the season.
I was at the Florida game during my spring break. Needless to say, it was the worst coached game of Torts' entire tenure here. It was that bad. I was also at the Colorado game last season in which we outshot them 2:1 and lost because we made Varlamov look like ****ing God ..again, but at least our offense looked competent that night.

The shortened season had a huge impact on fluctuated stats. The PP/offense was bad. Torts isn't a bad coach, but his time here had come. He wasn't getting the most out of the players anymore. For every game they looked good, there would be two games in which they struggled, badly.

As for Sather, I'm glad he made the move. I'm also glad he jumped on AV when Vancouver jumped the gun on firing him. Sather has been bad here at times, but I can't blame him for the rhetoric here, even if most people know he's "old school" and has no base for it.

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