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Jonathan Bernier Race Down to 3 Teams (TOR, PHI, MIN)

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Old
06-21-2013, 09:54 AM
  #151
Riseonfire
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I still can't see Toronto giving up anything significant for a player who doesn't fill a need.

Is Bernier an upgrade over Reimer? Probably.

Does it fill a hole? Nope.

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06-21-2013, 09:55 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Mats26 View Post
If the offer is Frattin and a 1st Kings would of made that deal already. Maybe Kings want Scrivens as well and something will be added to Bernier? My gut tells me Frattin and Bernier are the center pieces is any trade that goes down with TO.
Same here, I like Frattin but he's the type of player that is redundant here in Toronto, he's not flashy, solid youngish player but IMO isn't more than a 2nd line player at the very best. I'd do the trade for Bernier depending on what the pick/prospect is.

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06-21-2013, 09:56 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Riseonfire View Post
I still can't see Toronto giving up anything significant for a player who doesn't fill a need.

Is Bernier an upgrade over Reimer? Probably.

Does it fill a hole? Nope.
You're right but it does build depth at the position, and Nonis has been mentioning depth at the goaltending position for a while now. His message has been very clear, Reimer is a very good goalie, he isn't the reason why they are going after Bernier, they just want to get better at that position overall in a general sense.

Who would you rather have going into next season Reimer-Scrivens or Reimer-Bernier..it's not even close.

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06-21-2013, 10:02 AM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Here's a working link to the article you posted:
http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-phil...call-bryzgalov

I'm wondering if the supposed package that the Leafs may be offering is their 1st round selection and a good young player/prospect. If that is the case, then I'm guessing Lombardi takes that offer. Although I'm not anticipating a trade until the Cup Finals are over and decided. Also, the draft is in 10 days and for the first time since 2005, the draft will be completed in one day.
The 1st and a "good" young player/prospect? Holy moley.

I'd like having Bernier but at that price I think Nonis would be better off waiting until free agency and gunning for a veteran backup for Reimer.

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06-21-2013, 10:03 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Stats01 View Post
You're right but it does build depth at the position, and Nonis has been mentioning depth at the goaltending position for a while now. His message has been very clear, Reimer is a very good goalie, he isn't the reason why they are going after Bernier, they just want to get better at that position overall in a general sense.

Who would you rather have going into next season Reimer-Scrivens or Reimer-Bernier..it's not even close.
Understandable, but I personally think that's a mismanagement of assets.

You could sign Khudobin for cash and have the same quality of depth without moving players for a redundant return. Frattin could then be moved for a forward or grittier Dman.

I just don't understand the logic here. Reimer is either your guy or he's not. Bernier is not coming in for 'depth' for any team. He'd be coming to start. Again, I understand wanting depth, i just disagree very much with Nonis if this is his method of achieving it.

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06-21-2013, 10:07 AM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riseonfire View Post
I still can't see Toronto giving up anything significant for a player who doesn't fill a need.

Is Bernier an upgrade over Reimer? Probably.

Does it fill a hole? Nope.
I don't think Bernier is an upgrade over Reimer. Not yet anyway - could be eventually.

The idea is to create a healthy competition between two good young goalies (with one coming out on top eventually) - and its a great idea. Would certainly improve depth at the position which is lacking now.

But for some of the prices being thrown around here...I dunno.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stats01 View Post
Same here, I like Frattin but he's the type of player that is redundant here in Toronto, he's not flashy, solid youngish player but IMO isn't more than a 2nd line player at the very best. I'd do the trade for Bernier depending on what the pick/prospect is.
Frattin is a solid young player and I like him too. The only issue with trading Frattin is we lose him, Komarov and likely MacArthur which means our winger depth just took a nose dive. We'd have to replace him with a couple likely expensive free agents.

Maybe not a show stopper, but something to consider.

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06-21-2013, 10:09 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Riseonfire View Post
Understandable, but I personally think that's a mismanagement of assets.

You could sign Khudobin for cash and have the same quality of depth without moving players for a redundant return. Frattin could then be moved for a forward or grittier Dman.

I just don't understand the logic here. Reimer is either your guy or he's not. Bernier is not coming in for 'depth' for any team. He'd be coming to start. Again, I understand wanting depth, i just disagree very much with Nonis if this is his method of achieving it.
It's a valid consideration, but completely depends on price. If LA is asking for starter value for Bernier I agree Nonis should steer clear. If they are asking for value of a good if unproven goalie with potential...well its something to think about.

I'd like Khudobin too. If he would be open to signing in Toronto, I'd be all over that.

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06-21-2013, 10:32 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Sundinology View Post
I see Bernier getting moved on draft day. He's a great goalie, but I hope Toronto doesn't offer too much of the farm to get him here. There's no doubting his talent, but I don't think he'll be able to replicate his performance in LA in Toronto. LA is arguably the toughest team to play against when they're healthy, and generally limits their opponents to just a few scoring opportunities per game. I love the Leafs but....... they're about the opposite of that. Tough to play against, but Reimer is relied on to bail them quite often.

Bernier wouldn't be coming to Toronto to backup or be part of a tandem, at least long term, and I'm sure Reimer has no intention of backing up either.
Well if its Philly a deal probably has to be in place no later than the conclusion of game 7 of the SCF, since Philly would have only 48 hours to buy out Bryz.

I think its been mentioned a Toronto deal has Timmy L's stamp all over it.

Would love to get Coyle from the Wild but I know that ain't happening from the Wild side of things.

At this point just want the Kings to try and get a first rounder from Islanders or Leafs if possible and some later round picks. Really don't want a player coming back.

If the Kings were to get the Islanders or Leaf's first rounders, and that is a big if, hopefully they would get the opportunity to draft Shinkaruk, Zykov or Mantha.

If they got a couple of extra picks in the Bernier deal, maybe the could package the 1st received, along with maybe a 2nd rounder and a couple of other picks to move up to Edmonton's spot and try to nab Valeri Nichushkin. Seems Edmonton is looking to drop down..

God know's the Kings need some left wing prospects.
And yes I am probably in a dream world with regards to above.. But what a nice dream it is.

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06-21-2013, 04:11 PM
  #159
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Renaud Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS 51s
3 teams are in the running for Jonathan Bernier. Kings are going to take the best offer from Maple Leafs, Flyers or Wild. #RDS

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06-21-2013, 04:15 PM
  #160
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Thank God NJ isnt in the running

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06-21-2013, 04:15 PM
  #161
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Hmmm, I could see the Wild trying to drive for him. I did not think of them as a front runner, but it's going to be a fun race.

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06-21-2013, 04:16 PM
  #162
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Ugh, I hope the Wild have only offered Clutterbuck + picks or low prospects. Not high prospects.

Hope the Kings won't take the Wild's offer either way. The Wild are probably still waiting for Backstrom's clan decision.

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06-21-2013, 04:16 PM
  #163
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My guess is the Kings will ship him out East. I am curious of the return.

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06-21-2013, 04:17 PM
  #164
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How credible is the above source. #RDS

If we do acquire Bernier, Leafs defence and goalie should be shored up for the long term. Only focus would be on addressing the forwards.

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06-21-2013, 04:21 PM
  #165
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interesting considering 2 of the 3 teams already have starting goalies

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06-21-2013, 04:22 PM
  #166
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I am a bit curious what the Wild would be offering? My thought was they should sign a UFA (Emery/Backstrom/Nabakov) and wait for Gustafson or Kuemper.

Maybe the Wild would offer:
Clutterbuck (would fit with the Kings; great 3rd liner)
Choice of:
Gustafson (fast rising prospect; backstopped Sweden to WJC Gold in '12)
Or Kuemper
Lucia (big forward; great offensive skills)

Wild get:
Bernier
2013 pick?


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06-21-2013, 04:22 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Macch View Post
interesting considering 2 of the 3 teams already have starting goalies
I still think going to TOR would be dumb. Go with Reimer, you don't need to give up anything. Wild do need someone like Bernier for the future (better than Harding). I do think though that a Bernier/Mason tandem, after Bryz has been bought out, will definitely be an interesting watch.

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06-21-2013, 04:22 PM
  #168
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You're right but it does build depth at the position, and Nonis has been mentioning depth at the goaltending position for a while now. His message has been very clear, Reimer is a very good goalie, he isn't the reason why they are going after Bernier, they just want to get better at that position overall in a general sense.

Who would you rather have going into next season Reimer-Scrivens or Reimer-Bernier..it's not even close.
True, but would you rather package your first and a prospect/player for a goalie to play 20 games or a forward to play 80?

Then there is the fact that both goalies can be a UFA in 2 years. Can't see either one signing on long term to be a backup.

To me, there is no way that Toronto gives up anything of significant value unless they think Bernier is a significant upgrade over Riemer.

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06-21-2013, 04:24 PM
  #169
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How credible is the above source. #RDS
.
RDS is TSN's French language sister station. Lavoie is very dialed in.

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06-21-2013, 04:25 PM
  #170
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Sorry, but you don't know all the dynamics. I've spoken with Lombardi myself, and he's shared his thoughts on offer sheets.
No offense, but I really doubt Lombardi has given you the inside scoop on the dynamics of offer sheets in the NHL. You're obviously an honest guy, so I don't doubt you talked with him. I just don't think he has sat down and explained to you inner workings of NHL GMs.

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Originally Posted by King'sPawn View Post
It is a legal course of action to sign a player to the organization, but it is also frowned on quite a bit, and it pisses off other GMs. You're not just putting a GM in the tight spot by making them decide on whether or not to keep a player; but you're also driving up the comp prices for other RFAs. Edit: I want to add that Lombardi didn't say these dynamics to me specifically; he focused more on the principle and the tension it can cause with other GMs, and that GMs do try to get back at offending GMs by threatening to offer sheet their players in return.

It's not about the almighty Lombardi, but it's NOT an appreciated practice. Other GMs have retaliated in the past by signing a previous team's RFA to an offer sheet. I can't recall what he said word-for-word, but Lombardi pretty much said, "When other GMs sign other players to offer sheets, it makes you want to grab him by the shirt and say, 'What the hell are you doing?'"

Now granted, it's not an appreciated practice, but we also don't know how often GMs try to sign players to offer sheets. We only hear about the ones the players have signed.

Granted, this was all years ago, so maybe the climate has changed, but I don't think you understand the importance of interpersonal relationships between the GMs. Granted, the GMs have to do what's best for their team, but part of that entails having good relationships.
I still think your claim that other teams won't offer sheet Bernier because they don't want to mess with Lombardi is a bit silly.

They won't offer sheet because it doesn't make good sense, for lots of reasons.

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06-21-2013, 04:25 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Didact View Post
How credible is the above source. #RDS

If we do acquire Bernier, Leafs defence and goalie should be shored up for the long term. Only focus would be on addressing the forwards.
Lavoie is the french version of Dreger. Very well connected.

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06-21-2013, 04:26 PM
  #172
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I am a bit curious what the Wild would be offering? My thought was they should sign a UFA (Emery/Backstrom/Nabakov) and wait for Gustafson or Kuemper.

Maybe the Wild would offer:
Clutterbuck (would fit with the Kings; great 3rd liner)
Gustafson (fast rising prospect; backstopped Sweden to WJC Gold in '12)
Lucia (big forward; great offensive skills)

Wild get:
Bernier
2013 pick?
Maybe they have a deal in mind where they can move Gustafson and/or Kuemper for a decent return? I would certainly feel comfortable with my young goaltending situation looking like Harding/Bernier with a young core of players.

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06-21-2013, 04:26 PM
  #173
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Frattin is a solid young player and I like him too. The only issue with trading Frattin is we lose him, Komarov and likely MacArthur which means our winger depth just took a nose dive. We'd have to replace him with a couple likely expensive free agents.

Maybe not a show stopper, but something to consider.
You have to consider the longterm though. Frattin is easily replaced by one of Biggs, Ashton, Leivo, Ross, D'Amigo, etc.

The depth next year taking a hit? Yea, that sucks. But Bernier is the better piece, and could be around for a longtime. Sign a UFA winger, and bring up Ashton/D'Amigo to fill bottom 6 roles. Would be fine.

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06-21-2013, 04:29 PM
  #174
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Maybe they have a deal in mind where they can move Gustafson and/or Kuemper for a decent return? I would certainly feel comfortable with my young goaltending situation looking like Harding/Bernier with a young core of players.
I could see that although my guess is they would really like to see Bernier sign an extension before dealing both goalie prospects.

Maybe someone like Jersey would want the other guy for a high pick?

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06-21-2013, 04:30 PM
  #175
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Can't believe the Isles would drop out of this unless the asking price is stupid high.

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