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The Out of Town Thread part LXIII - All Talk From Around the League Here

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Old
06-20-2013, 05:45 PM
  #276
PyrettaBlaze
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I thought you guys wanted to get bigger.

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Old
06-20-2013, 05:46 PM
  #277
Phil Parent
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If the Habs would sign Briere, which I don't think will happen, I would have to reconsider giving them my hard-earned money. He's only a step below Komisarek in terms of being a no-good traitor who was offered fair money to come/stay here but turned us down.

I wonder if Komisarek thinks his thirty pieces of silver were worth it?

Anyway, that ****ing rat Briere isn't worthy of being a Hab. He isn't even worthy of being a Quebecois. He can stay in Philadelphia for the rest of his life for all I care.

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06-20-2013, 05:47 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by CaptainIginla View Post
its like saying sorry only when you get caught
While I don't want Briere, I don't see why it was so horrible that he signed elsewhere. He is not traitor. He didn't play for the Habs to begin with.

If Habs fans and media want to act like crazy, jealous boyfriends, then we should not be surprised when a girl turns us down.


Last edited by andy28: 06-20-2013 at 06:14 PM.
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Old
06-20-2013, 06:50 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
The way you put it paints a picture that is completely inaccurate.

To make it more accurate I'd say :

For a winger who brings offense, Gionta is bad at bringing offense. But he will not hurt you either.

For a center that brings offense, Briere is one of the best in the league and is a proven ppg playoffs performer. He is terrible defensively and needs to be sheltered however.

There is a reason there was infinitely more interest in Briere than Gionta when both became UFAs despite Briere's shortcomings.

You can hide Briere's flaws. When you're trailing Briere can help you. On the PP Briere can help you. There are plenty of players who can play conservatively and can play a more defensive role when the situation requires it. Not many can bring the offense Briere brings.

Briere has often been a main component in team that went to the ECF and further. Gionta was not a main cog on the devils he was a support player. You are undervaluing Briere's playoffs scoring.

But I really don't like his rat face and I don't feel like going to bat for him. I just hate him so that was my last post on this subject, carry on with the Danielle hate.
Spin it however you want the basic and essential fact is, Briere's team was much worse when he was playing and Gionta's is much better. One is a liability in most situations, one is a contributor. Briere creates more offense for the other team than he does for his own, while Gionta creates more offense for his team than he gives up.

I'm not talking about the Devils for Gionta. I'm talking solely about his career as a Hab were he was heavily relied on. During the course of those 4 seasons, when Gionta was on the ice the Habs played equally well as Philly did with Briere and while Gionta was used as a heavily lifter and Philly was coddled on a more talent team.

Gionta is a little bit of relative offensive skill combined with quite a bit of relative defensive skill for a top six winger to make a significant positive. Briere is a lot of relative offensive skill with an even bigger negative relative defensive skill to make a net minus.

And for the playoffs, you can't factor his playoff scoring without considering how much massively easier it was to score on him compared to his teammates. Over the past two playoffs his team has been -4 without him and -11 with him on the ice. And he was the guy facing third lines, not the opposing stars.

Briere manages to bring his team down in the playoffs even when he's scoring at above a point per game pace. That's how incredibly inept he is at defense.

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06-20-2013, 06:52 PM
  #280
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maybe briere would like to play closer to gatineau beach. ottawa perhaps?

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06-20-2013, 07:15 PM
  #281
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Krug is terrible defensively. He's tiny and afraid to get hit.
We are so not watching the same game. He's wise with his stick, and his speed makes up for his lack of physical play.

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06-20-2013, 07:28 PM
  #282
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Patrick Elias is a perfect fit.

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Old
06-20-2013, 07:33 PM
  #283
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Patrick Elias is a perfect fit.
Agreed, I've always wanted to see Elias wearing the CH. Especially when Koivu was playing.

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Old
06-20-2013, 07:37 PM
  #284
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He is not signing in Montreal...he says he is staying in the Philly area because of his kids...so..............Islanders, NJ, or Rangers??

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06-20-2013, 08:00 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by ClasslessGuy View Post
Forthe second time briere hates mtl
And Elias is either going to retire, or come back with New Jersey.

Ignorance is quite common around here....

Personally, I'd love Briere if our team were bigger. He'd be "huge" on Boston.

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06-20-2013, 08:04 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
He is not signing in Montreal...he says he is staying in the Philly area because of his kids...so..............Islanders, NJ, or Rangers??
Could he go back to Philly?



Go Spurs!

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06-20-2013, 08:10 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
Could he go back to Philly?



Go Spurs!
You can't use the buyout to sign at a lower contract.

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06-20-2013, 09:08 PM
  #288
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I think his right as a Canadian citizen is to choose his career path and it's his RIGHT to live where he wants to live lol anyways shouldn't be getting into a political debate over a player who did the right thing for him and his family and is now past his prime, no use for him in MTL unless we move gio


also beliefs like that are exactly why he didn't sign here lol

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Old
06-20-2013, 09:14 PM
  #289
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also beliefs like that are exactly why he didn't sign here lol
Precisely.

Hey Briere! Sign with us! You'll have to be the savior of our franchise and, if you fail to single handedly make our mediocre team into a perennial Stanley Cup contender for just one single season of your 20 year contract ir we're going to make you a pariah and boo you out of town like Brisebois! Sounds good?

Oh and you'll have to pay taxes. A lot of taxes. But don't worry, you're going to have free crappy healthcare and roads that almost compare favourably to some 2000 year old roman stone roads you'll find in the Mediterranean basin.

Oh, and no pressure man! You'll get to be a national hero as well.


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Old
06-21-2013, 07:10 AM
  #290
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Of the Cammalleri-Gomez-Gionta triad, Gionta was the only one retained by three Hab GMs and he was elevated to captain. There must be a reason. He would be easily tradeable if it were not for his salary (a more pertinent factor than his age or his size).

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Old
06-21-2013, 07:51 AM
  #291
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
And there is the crux of the matter. For a winger that brings offense, Gionta is very very strong on defense.

For a center that brings offense. Briere is hilariously terrible at defense. Massive, humungous liablity that means you have to manage his minutes like crazy otherwise when you put him out on the ice you'll be losing no matter how much he scores.

Gionta is the single forward the Habs have had in recent history who would play consistently be out there on hard minutes at win. Plekanec can be that but he hasn't always had the necessary linemate support.

Is playoff scoring is a mirage. Its the same as the regular season. Sure he put up a bunch of points, that doesn't mean he also ddin't get his ass beat overall


Defense is talent too. Especially the ability to out play your opponent. Briere has what looks like talent, but its such a liability that its rarely worth it.

Briere is essentially everything bad anyone has ever said about Cammalleri's on ice ability made manifest. The key distinction being that Cammalleri is a winger, so you its not so bad that he needs to be carried by a center while Briere is a center, a job that comes with certain responsibilities.

Briere isn't his playoff highlight real. Or his point totals. Those are highly misleading when talking about his worth. There is a bigger picture about how he manages to score so much. And when you get right down to it, on the ice, Gionta wins his minutes consistently while Briere frequently loses.
You're talking as if Gionta was a perrenial Selke winner... if that was the case, then yes, Gionta would be as good/important as Brière.

But that's not the case, no GM or knowledgeable scout would chose Gionta over Brière. Gionta is adequate defensively, his size is a huge problem and playing with Plekanec kind of bring the best in you (aka you look better than you are).

With that said, I don't want Brière if Gionta is still with the team.... and which team would take a 5mil dollar Gionta over a much cheaper UFA Briere ??? None, so it's a moot point.

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Old
06-21-2013, 08:21 AM
  #292
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Please... we've gone down this path before where we've built with the leftovers from other teams. Folks freaked out when we didn't sign Briere the last time around and now that he's failed in Philly we want to go after him again?

The guy is too small. We have to stop making the same mistakes over and over. We should be looking to get rid of some of our small forwards not adding more of them. Please tell me that we're not going after this guy.

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Old
06-21-2013, 08:41 AM
  #293
ClasslessGuy
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Please... we've gone down this path before where we've built with the leftovers from other teams. Folks freaked out when we didn't sign Briere the last time around and now that he's failed in Philly we want to go after him again?

The guy is too small. We have to stop making the same mistakes over and over. We should be looking to get rid of some of our small forwards not adding more of them. Please tell me that we're not going after this guy.
This This and This.

Guy is good yes but we want to get bigger and younger.

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Old
06-21-2013, 09:05 AM
  #294
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Well he's getting bought out right? He's not going to cost 6.5m to whoever takes him. Is he better than Plekanec? Overall, no. But i just don't feel like Plekanec is a winner. I feel that way about Briere, he flat out scores huge goals for his team time and time again.

But maybe he's kind of done, i don't know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markowicz View Post
By winner i kind of just meant the will to win any particular game, not the cup itself. I mean Travis Moen won the cup, and we all know about that guy's will to win...
Plekanec IMO is DEFINITELY a winner. He has been fantastic as a two way center and tbh doesn't get enough credit for his offensive game which depends a lot on his wingers. He's not supposed to be Jeff Carter. He is who he is and he's one of the best at it. Not to mention that he never sulks despite being rotated with players who have been in massive slumps, who he has had to cover for and who in general has not had a solid line to play with. Any time he's been put with capable wingers, that line has been one of the most productive and dangerous in the NHL, nm the team (unfortunately the frequency of that has been low). When people say he disappears, it's really a function of what the rest of the team is doing (stupid dump and chase with no puck pursuit, nobody going to the net, etc.). When has HE ever been the worst player on his line?

Pleks and Briere are two different types of players, odd to compare them. If I wanted to build a SC team and I had to chose between the two, with all the other pieces in place, I'd take Pleks for SURE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Briere has a heck of a lot more talent than Gionta...

Gionta is better defensively.. but a huge part of it is because Gionta makes the safe low percentage plays. By low % I mean both offensively and defensively. He gets into the O zone and he 99/100 he shoots from wherever he has a clear lane to the net. It's safe in that it results in fewer turnovers and we get a faceoff in the offensive zone but offensively it doesn't mean much.

But ultimately, the proof is in the pudding. When Gionta was an UFA we overpaid like crazy to get him and that meant 5M. No other team was close to paying that for him, not even the devils. Lou told him to go cuz that was the best he was gonna get.

In the meantime, Briere got a much higher deal for much longer.

Not to mention that Briere is a point per game player in the playoffs.

That said, I don't want him, and don't care much about him. But he is much better than Gionta in nearly every way except defensively.



Wow... Gionta matches Briere offense ? Gionta is a freakin' black hole offensively. He has the offensive imagination of a rodent.

EDIT:

For ***** and giggles :

Gionta : 61 pts in 95 playoffs games
Briere : 109 pts in 108 playoffs games

Points aren't everything, but nearly everything points to Briere being MILES ahead offensively. Your own eyes, the salary they got on the market, the points...
First of all, I'm not sure why you bothered to compare their points if it doesn't matter as an indicator of offense

Secondly, Gionta's game is far more complete and while, yes, it sucks to see him come down the wing and blast a slapper from a bad angle, Gionta hasn't always done that. That's the "bad" Gionta. The Gio who was heating up towards the end of the season (and remember he tore his bicep in game 1, yet was one of our best fwds throughout the series along with Bourque) is the vintage Gio who makes those clutch plays. You can say, Gionta is only better defensively, but I kind of value that aspect of the game. Briere is a great scorer for sure, but of all the people we could have and the way the organization is going (developing prospects, getting bigger), he is far more useful to other teams than to us.

As far as overpaying for Gio, I really don't mind that contract. He's been very good for us and I'm curious to know who you'd rather have had if you were Gainey during that exact FA window. Gainey brought in someone who, if anything, exemplified the spirit of a warrior and who had been very good with Gomez. Sure, the tandem didn't work out, but again, hindsight and I would make that same signing again. If you're going to have Gomez, you might as well get Gionta. There were good reasons for reuniting their chemistry. It's not like we are cap-strapped by Gio btw. I don't know why his contract is always called into question. There's no way he gets the same thing to either stay in MTL or elsewhere after next year, but so far, 5M has been A OK for a great captain and able scorer (just maybe not last year).

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy28 View Post
While I don't want Briere, I don't see why it was so horrible that he signed elsewhere. He is not traitor. He didn't play for the Habs to begin with.

If Habs fans and media want to act like crazy, jealous boyfriends, then we should not be surprised when a girl turns us down.
He used us to drive up his price with Philly. That was sin #1.

Your analogy is strange. How WERE we acting like crazy, jealous boyfriends? There's also a difference between that and the connection of Francophones to joining the Habs (it's understandable why people were upset by his dumping us for Philly). Fair enough, he doesn't care about MTL, but you have to understand how people feel in the context of the socio-political optics considering the silly money being thrown at him. Yeah, he's a pro athlete, he can do what he wants. Fans can also feel what they want and if it's slighted, then that's fine too. I thought it was disappointing as a Montrealer, but in hindsight, kind of glad it didn't happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
You're talking as if Gionta was a perrenial Selke winner... if that was the case, then yes, Gionta would be as good/important as Brière.

But that's not the case, no GM or knowledgeable scout would chose Gionta over Brière. Gionta is adequate defensively, his size is a huge problem and playing with Plekanec kind of bring the best in you (aka you look better than you are).

With that said, I don't want Brière if Gionta is still with the team.... and which team would take a 5mil dollar Gionta over a much cheaper UFA Briere ??? None, so it's a moot point.
Gionta's size hasn't nearly been a factor as it has for others his size. Is Gallgher's size a problem? They both play big. Can't say the same for some others with actual size. If you had a choice between the two at the same salary and term, then I can understand arguments both ways, but I really don't think it's as clear cut a case as you're making. You don't have to be a perennial Selke winner to have solid and valuable defensive abilities. He also has good game sense and intensity. Oh, and he's (IMO) a good captain. Briere may or may not be a good fit with the Habs. It's not a slam dunk case for me and I certainly don't think he's worth the FA money he's going to be asking for. If we got fully healed Gio back, I really think he could be a force next season. Maybe not be used on the PP AS much (we should ideally have 3 fwd combinations who can get the job done, room for flexibility).

I do like what you said about Pleks, though. I so hope we get to see him in a position where he can be used to his max potential. We could be a very deep team.

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Old
06-21-2013, 09:38 AM
  #295
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
You're talking as if Gionta was a perrenial Selke winner... if that was the case, then yes, Gionta would be as good/important as Brière.

But that's not the case, no GM or knowledgeable scout would chose Gionta over Brière. Gionta is adequate defensively, his size is a huge problem and playing with Plekanec kind of bring the best in you (aka you look better than you are).

With that said, I don't want Brière if Gionta is still with the team.... and which team would take a 5mil dollar Gionta over a much cheaper UFA Briere ??? None, so it's a moot point.
There is plenty of room past Selke winner to be effective defensively. Think it out man. There are like 5 Selke candidates, all centermen. Gionta isn't that. He's just at the upper end of defense for scoring line RWs.

The key thing is Briere's defense. Its a massive negative. He can play PPG hockey and be effectively worthless outside the powerplay its that bad. Because you don't win by scoring points, you win by outscoring the opposition. Gionta can outscore even if he doesn't score lots. Briere sucks at outscoring.

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06-21-2013, 09:43 AM
  #296
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No to Briere. We already have a small one dimensional centre who needs soft and sheltered minutes.

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06-21-2013, 09:59 AM
  #297
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No to Briere. We already have a small one dimensional centre who needs soft and sheltered minutes.
In better circumstances, I'd take a flyer (no pun intended) on Briere on a 1-year deal for $3 million, but the fit isn't there as it stands now.

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06-21-2013, 10:01 AM
  #298
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No to Briere. We already have a small one dimensional centre who needs soft and sheltered minutes.
Well the best plan would be to trade DD and sign Briere to a max 2 year deal

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06-21-2013, 10:03 AM
  #299
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In better circumstances, I'd take a flyer (no pun intended) on Briere on a 1-year deal for $3 million, but the fit isn't there as it stands now.
Agreed. I like Briere more than a lot of posters here do, but I can't see a fit for him on the team as we stand now.

I don't know if he'll get less than 4.5 though.

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06-21-2013, 10:05 AM
  #300
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Agreed. I like Briere more than a lot of posters here do, but I can't see a fit for him on the team as we stand now.

I don't know if he'll get less than 4.5 though.
I wish Bergevin had been a bit more patient with Desharnais, especially that he was a RFA.

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