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Possible Silver Lining to Boston's Success?

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Old
06-20-2013, 02:17 PM
  #101
WhiskeySeven
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It astounds me that people regularly delude themselves into thinking that since Gionta, Bouillon and Desharnais are smurfs in a big man's league that they're somehow tough to play against it happen to play extra-physical.

No they don't. Only Gallager hits the crease regularly, the rest of them (Gally included) can't play the body well whatsoever.

Then I see Lucic and Boychuk boxing players out, crushing them by the boards and I weep.

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06-20-2013, 03:07 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
It astounds me that people regularly delude themselves into thinking that since Gionta, Bouillon and Desharnais are smurfs in a big man's league that they're somehow tough to play against it happen to play extra-physical.

No they don't. Only Gallager hits the crease regularly, the rest of them (Gally included) can't play the body well whatsoever.

Then I see Lucic and Boychuk boxing players out, crushing them by the boards and I weep.
Gionta scored 14 goals this season.

11 of them were within 10 feet of the net on goalmouth plays

Gallagher scored 15 goals in the regular season. 10 from goal mouth plays. 12 of 17 if you count the playoffs.

The guy you praise and the guy you can stand got essentially the same amount of goals from playing around the net. The main difference is Gallagher actively fights for space while Gionta slips into open areas next to the net.

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06-20-2013, 03:35 PM
  #103
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Gionta scored 14 goals this season.

11 of them were within 10 feet of the net on goalmouth plays

Gallagher scored 15 goals in the regular season. 10 from goal mouth plays. 12 of 17 if you count the playoffs.

The guy you praise and the guy you can stand got essentially the same amount of goals from playing around the net. The main difference is Gallagher actively fights for space while Gionta slips into open areas next to the net.
Nobody's saying that Gionta is a bad player... he just isn't right on this team. We've got too many small forwards.

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06-20-2013, 03:56 PM
  #104
Talks to Goalposts
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Nobody's saying that Gionta is a bad player... he just isn't right on this team. We've got too many small forwards.
Somebody was saying he wasn't going to the net to score. Which is demonstrably false.

It also leads to a question. Would the team actually get better at scoring goals in close if you replace Gionta with a 6'2" player? Or would that just better fit your preconceived notions of what a goalmouth scorer is without actually increasing effectiveness?

Not to say that it wouldn't be bad to move on from him. But that has to been done with an assessment on his true worth otherwise your just advocating going backwards as a team to no real purpose.

If you can get an actually good two-way winger like Clarkson in his role to stay good and increase in size, then great. If your going to invest in a lug who can't do that and don't find a new two-way winger to help out Plekanec, then your going backwards.

Rebalancing a lineup doesn't help if all your doing is balancing the talent downward. It can't work that you go Step 1: Get rid of player I don't like. Step 3: Profit.

Which is also to say I think people are getting the order of operations wrong. Dumping the effective but expensive player that you want to move on from comes after the realistic replacement is found. Not deleting a guy and then hoping it all turns out rosy.

I don't know about you guys, but I like having a team in the top 4-5 of the East and would like to stay there. Getting a 2nd rounder for player you'll have difficulty replacing internally doesn't help that.


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06-20-2013, 04:42 PM
  #105
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I like pretty much all of our players, but we're not balanced enough. Who's tough on our team?

FW:
Armstrong: More of a pest. His best hits are illegal and from 5 years ago.
Bourque: Big, but not a bruiser and has consistency issues.
Moen: Meh. Can't fight, and doesn't hit a lot. Was missing in 2013.
Pacioretty: Big, but not his role and not a hitter.
Prust: Great.
White: Too small, can't fight.

D:
Bouillon: Tough, but at 5'8'' and 37, he doesn't scare anyone.
Emelin: Excellent hitter, but can't back it up in scrums/fights.
Subban: Can hit, but too good to be his main purpose. Can't fight.

I mean who would stand up if someone as irrelevant as Boychuk or McQuaid decide to stir some ****? Prust, maybe Moen. And then we have to deal with Chara, Lucic, Thornton, Campbell, etc.

Thing is, I'm all for being faster and more talented than the Bruins, but if our grit factor is at 0, then it will always be something they can use to put us off our game, like they did to the Canucks.

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06-20-2013, 05:01 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpo View Post
I like pretty much all of our players, but we're not balanced enough. Who's tough on our team?

FW:
Armstrong: More of a pest. His best hits are illegal and from 5 years ago.
Bourque: Big, but not a bruiser and has consistency issues.
Moen: Meh. Can't fight, and doesn't hit a lot. Was missing in 2013.
Pacioretty: Big, but not his role and not a hitter.
Prust: Great.
White: Too small, can't fight.

D:
Bouillon: Tough, but at 5'8'' and 37, he doesn't scare anyone.
Emelin: Excellent hitter, but can't back it up in scrums/fights.
Subban: Can hit, but too good to be his main purpose. Can't fight.

I mean who would stand up if someone as irrelevant as Boychuk or McQuaid decide to stir some ****? Prust, maybe Moen. And then we have to deal with Chara, Lucic, Thornton, Campbell, etc.

Thing is, I'm all for being faster and more talented than the Bruins, but if our grit factor is at 0, then it will always be something they can use to put us off our game, like they did to the Canucks.
Pefect post.

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Sens players beat up 5'8" Habs players, they are praised. Subban beats up a small Sens player, he's a coward, he's spot picking, he's this, he's that, he's too NBA, he's too NFL, cocky, classless, etc, etc, etc.... You guys are too much.
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06-20-2013, 05:17 PM
  #107
SouthernHab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpo View Post
I like pretty much all of our players, but we're not balanced enough. Who's tough on our team?

FW:
Armstrong: More of a pest. His best hits are illegal and from 5 years ago.
Bourque: Big, but not a bruiser and has consistency issues.
Moen: Meh. Can't fight, and doesn't hit a lot. Was missing in 2013.
Pacioretty: Big, but not his role and not a hitter.
Prust: Great.
White: Too small, can't fight.

D:
Bouillon: Tough, but at 5'8'' and 37, he doesn't scare anyone.
Emelin: Excellent hitter, but can't back it up in scrums/fights.
Subban: Can hit, but too good to be his main purpose. Can't fight.

I mean who would stand up if someone as irrelevant as Boychuk or McQuaid decide to stir some ****? Prust, maybe Moen. And then we have to deal with Chara, Lucic, Thornton, Campbell, etc.

Thing is, I'm all for being faster and more talented than the Bruins, but if our grit factor is at 0, then it will always be something they can use to put us off our game, like they did to the Canucks.
Great post.

The makeup of this team will always make us competitive during the regular season and not competitive whatsoever in the playoffs when we have to play a series against physical teams prevalent in the East.........like Ottawa for example.

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06-20-2013, 06:15 PM
  #108
Harpo
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Great post.

The makeup of this team will always make us competitive during the regular season and not competitive whatsoever in the playoffs when we have to play a series against physical teams prevalent in the East.........like Ottawa for example.
The thing is, some players like Bourque, Moen, Gorges and Pacioretty would be way more confident to play a grittier game if they had players like Chara, Lucic and Thornton to back them up. I'd like Horton on the Habs, because of the size and grit he's shown with the Bruins, but I'm not sure he's that different from Bourque.

The Bruins' greatness comes from having good, regular players like Chara and Lucic (and a great 4th liner like Thornton) so that Mcquaid, Boychuk, Paillé and Campbell can be more effective, confident and agressive.

Of course, Charas and Lucices don't grow on trees, so it's not as simple as signing McGrattan or Patrick Bordeleau. We don't need to be as tough as them, but an Odelein, McPhee and Roberge would do wonders for our smaller players.

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06-20-2013, 06:16 PM
  #109
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The real silver lining is that their success will end soon eough. hehe.

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06-20-2013, 06:17 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
The real silver lining is that their success will end soon eough. hehe.
I hope you're right. But I have learned to never make predictions either way in hockey. I remember how confident I was when we were ahead of Carolina 2-0 in that series, and how down I was when Quebec was ahead of us 2-0.


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06-20-2013, 09:51 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Harpo View Post
I like pretty much all of our players, but we're not balanced enough. Who's tough on our team?

FW:
Armstrong: More of a pest. His best hits are illegal and from 5 years ago.
Bourque: Big, but not a bruiser and has consistency issues.
Moen: Meh. Can't fight, and doesn't hit a lot. Was missing in 2013.
Pacioretty: Big, but not his role and not a hitter.
Prust: Great.
White: Too small, can't fight.

D:
Bouillon: Tough, but at 5'8'' and 37, he doesn't scare anyone.
Emelin: Excellent hitter, but can't back it up in scrums/fights.
Subban: Can hit, but too good to be his main purpose. Can't fight.

I mean who would stand up if someone as irrelevant as Boychuk or McQuaid decide to stir some ****? Prust, maybe Moen. And then we have to deal with Chara, Lucic, Thornton, Campbell, etc.

Thing is, I'm all for being faster and more talented than the Bruins, but if our grit factor is at 0, then it will always be something they can use to put us off our game, like they did to the Canucks.
You're looking at size as a function of fighting. That is, by far, its least-important aspect. Yes, we need to get bigger. But we need size as part of the game, not after the whistle. We don't need size to fight other players, we need functional size to help us win games. "Functional Size" (I like that term so I'm repeating it) means forwards who can crash the other guy's net and crowd around it for rebounds; it means defensemen who can make life miserable for their forwards by clearing our net and pounding them along the boards in our zone. We say the Habs aren't built for the playoffs, well "Built for the playoffs" does NOT include fighting, as you may have noticed by the lack of fights in most playoff series.

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The thing is, some players like Bourque, Moen, Gorges and Pacioretty would be way more confident to play a grittier game if they had players like Chara, Lucic and Thornton to back them up. I'd like Horton on the Habs, because of the size and grit he's shown with the Bruins, but I'm not sure he's that different from Bourque.

The Bruins' greatness comes from having good, regular players like Chara and Lucic (and a great 4th liner like Thornton) so that Mcquaid, Boychuk, Paillé and Campbell can be more effective, confident and agressive.

Of course, Charas and Lucices don't grow on trees, so it's not as simple as signing McGrattan or Patrick Bordeleau. We don't need to be as tough as them, but an Odelein, McPhee and Roberge would do wonders for our smaller players.
Horton is a great playoff player who's one concussion away from retirement. Thornton and Chara are aging and slowing. Bruins fans know this is the team that lost in round-one in 2012 and needed a miracle to get out of round-one this year. This is not "Greatness", this is streakiness. Good for them, it counts just the same, but why would the Habs adapt to a team they can already beat consistently?? Because of grit? No - every successful team has grit. Sure, I want the Habs to finally join the size & grit club for the reasons you said, but not because we need to beat Boston - we already do - but because we'll need to take on the really elite teams like Chicago, the semi-elite like Los Angeles and the erratically-elite like Pittsburgh. Those are the teams we have trouble beating.

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06-20-2013, 10:09 PM
  #112
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If the dastardly broons go on to win the SC (shudder), might that send the message to Habs' management that physical play, grit, intimidation etc are keys to success? And might we see that reflected at the draft, in UFA buys and other off-season moves?

(I am desperately trying to find something positive about Boston's run.)
I don't agree with your analysis. For one thing, the Hawks have outhit the Bruins in the series. The key to the Bruins success so far has been their timely scoring (including goals from the point by Boychuk and Krug), faceoff prowess (especially Bergeron's), goaltending, and tight defense (although it broke down in game 4 against the Hawks, when Chara was on for 4 GA). I should also remind you that the Habs won the season series against the Bruins using their speed and forechecking. (The Hawks are also speedy. by the way.) And remember, the Hawks haven't been getting remarkable goaltending from Crawford.

Sure, the Habs could use more physicality. They also need better playmaking and D. I hope having Emelin, Tinordi, and Beaulieu in the lineup will solve at least part of the problem.


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06-20-2013, 10:51 PM
  #113
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I don't agree with your analysis. For one thing, the Hawks have outhit the Bruins in the series. The key to the Bruins success so far has been their timely scoring (including goals from the point by Boychuk and Krug), faceoff prowess (especially Bergeron's), goaltending, and tight defense (although it broke down in game 4 against the Hawks, when Chara was on for 4 GA). I should also remind you that the Habs won the season series against the Bruins using their speed and forechecking. (The Hawks are also speedy. by the way.) And remember, the Hawks haven't been getting remarkable goaltending from Crawford.

Sure, the Habs could use more physicality. They also need better playmaking and D. I hope having Emelin, Tinordi, and Beaulieu in the lineup will solve at least part of the problem.
Regarding what I highlighted, you are not correct.

The hits so far in the four games are.....

Boston - 184
Chicago - 157

Maybe when a Hawks player makes a hit, it is more noticeable since they are spending more time dodging the Bruins attempts to hit them.

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06-20-2013, 11:00 PM
  #114
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You're looking at size as a function of fighting. That is, by far, its least-important aspect. Yes, we need to get bigger. But we need size as part of the game, not after the whistle. We don't need size to fight other players, we need functional size to help us win games. "Functional Size" (I like that term so I'm repeating it) means forwards who can crash the other guy's net and crowd around it for rebounds; it means defensemen who can make life miserable for their forwards by clearing our net and pounding them along the boards in our zone. We say the Habs aren't built for the playoffs, well "Built for the playoffs" does NOT include fighting, as you may have noticed by the lack of fights in most playoff series.
Using your premise, can you explain why Montreal.....a team without an enforcer and the fewest number of players who fight.....had seven fights in the playoff series (5 games) against Ottawa while the two teams with the most fighters......Boston and Toronto......only had two fights in their series (7 games)?

And an additional question. Why was Emelin (who should not be fighting because of his facial injuries) third on the Habs team in fighting majors after only Prust and Moen?

Thanks.

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06-21-2013, 12:31 AM
  #115
Lafleurs Guy
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Somebody was saying he wasn't going to the net to score. Which is demonstrably false.

It also leads to a question. Would the team actually get better at scoring goals in close if you replace Gionta with a 6'2" player? Or would that just better fit your preconceived notions of what a goalmouth scorer is without actually increasing effectiveness?

Not to say that it wouldn't be bad to move on from him. But that has to been done with an assessment on his true worth otherwise your just advocating going backwards as a team to no real purpose.

If you can get an actually good two-way winger like Clarkson in his role to stay good and increase in size, then great. If your going to invest in a lug who can't do that and don't find a new two-way winger to help out Plekanec, then your going backwards.

Rebalancing a lineup doesn't help if all your doing is balancing the talent downward. It can't work that you go Step 1: Get rid of player I don't like. Step 3: Profit.

Which is also to say I think people are getting the order of operations wrong. Dumping the effective but expensive player that you want to move on from comes after the realistic replacement is found. Not deleting a guy and then hoping it all turns out rosy.

I don't know about you guys, but I like having a team in the top 4-5 of the East and would like to stay there. Getting a 2nd rounder for player you'll have difficulty replacing internally doesn't help that.
How effective has he been? He's never in the lineup.

Seriously man, it's time to turn the page. We tried the small skilled guy route and it doesn't work. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having some of these guys on your roster but it's about balance and we've lost all sense of it long ago.

Yes, we'll have to replace him. No it won't be that easy but it's time to give a guy like Eller more responsibilities. It's time to start playing the younger players more. We have to have a more balanced lineup, we've said it for years...

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06-21-2013, 12:42 AM
  #116
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I don't see how trying to mimic the Bruins is a good thing.

Is become a team of classless thugs like Chara what we have to look forward to?
I would trade everything the Habs have done since '93 for their 1 Stanley Cup and the possibility of 2nd one this year.

Bruins might be "a team of classless thugs" but we've been pretty much a laughing stock since Roy left with our horrible seasons, bad trades and stupid headline making drama.

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06-21-2013, 01:53 AM
  #117
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How effective has he been? He's never in the lineup.

Seriously man, it's time to turn the page. We tried the small skilled guy route and it doesn't work. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having some of these guys on your roster but it's about balance and we've lost all sense of it long ago.

Yes, we'll have to replace him. No it won't be that easy but it's time to give a guy like Eller more responsibilities. It's time to start playing the younger players more. We have to have a more balanced lineup, we've said it for years...
Never in the lineup is an interesting way of describing missing 3 games this season. And we saw what he meant the year before when he went down. Gionta's injury precepitated a collapse in the 5 on 5 game which preciptated the death spiral that sunk the team to the bottom.

Unless you want Eller to start playing LW again he isn't a solution for the two-way winger you should have playing with Plekanec. You want Eller's improvement to cut into what you have the depth of the lineup doing rather than cutting down the effectiveness of a main unit.

As of right now, Gionta isn't standing in anybody's way for the future. There's already a spot open on the top nine that no one is filling and there isnt't a prospect burning his way up into the roster.

Now they do need to replace the guy, because he's getting old. But that entails finding a player that can actually replace him. Not just open a hole in the lineup, shrug, and assume some youngster can do the job. If there is said youngster they'll get their shot when inevitable injuries strike.

And lets be clear on what a 2nd round pick actually means. Even in Timmins hands, that's a 50-50 chance of an NHLer about 4-5 years from now. Getting that is good for something you don't need anymore, bad for something that helps you in a year when your already set to make the playoffs.

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06-21-2013, 06:21 AM
  #118
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Regarding what I highlighted, you are not correct.

The hits so far in the four games are.....

Boston - 184
Chicago - 157

Maybe when a Hawks player makes a hit, it is more noticeable since they are spending more time dodging the Bruins attempts to hit them.
Be that as it may, the Bruins have sustained more casualties--and yes, the Hawks' hits have been more noticeable. Anyway, the Bruins' hitting isn't reflected in more shots on goal, and they sure looked bad in game 4 at home.

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06-21-2013, 08:16 AM
  #119
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Never in the lineup is an interesting way of describing missing 3 games this season. And we saw what he meant the year before when he went down. Gionta's injury precepitated a collapse in the 5 on 5 game which preciptated the death spiral that sunk the team to the bottom.

Unless you want Eller to start playing LW again he isn't a solution for the two-way winger you should have playing with Plekanec. You want Eller's improvement to cut into what you have the depth of the lineup doing rather than cutting down the effectiveness of a main unit.

As of right now, Gionta isn't standing in anybody's way for the future. There's already a spot open on the top nine that no one is filling and there isnt't a prospect burning his way up into the roster.

Now they do need to replace the guy, because he's getting old. But that entails finding a player that can actually replace him. Not just open a hole in the lineup, shrug, and assume some youngster can do the job. If there is said youngster they'll get their shot when inevitable injuries strike.

And lets be clear on what a 2nd round pick actually means. Even in Timmins hands, that's a 50-50 chance of an NHLer about 4-5 years from now. Getting that is good for something you don't need anymore, bad for something that helps you in a year when your already set to make the playoffs.
Shortened season and a late start helped him but this guy is always busted up.

The whole idea of landing him with Gomez and Cammy was a bad one. Our club is too small up front and we've got to break up the smurf club. We've have too many small players and some of them HAVE to go. DD is locked down, Pleks and Gallagher aren't going anywhere... Gionta is the logical choice.

Gionta's not a bad player but we should actively try to trade him in the offseason. Secondary scoring with at least some size (I'll settle for not being a smurf) isn't that hard to find dude.

We should be pushing for a guy like Bobby Ryan... maybe we can offer a package that includes Gionta. Whatever, just get it done. We have to turn the page on this because we aren't winning anything with a bunch of smurfs.

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06-21-2013, 08:40 AM
  #120
Lshap
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Using your premise, can you explain why Montreal.....a team without an enforcer and the fewest number of players who fight.....had seven fights in the playoff series (5 games) against Ottawa while the two teams with the most fighters......Boston and Toronto......only had two fights in their series (7 games)?

And an additional question. Why was Emelin (who should not be fighting because of his facial injuries) third on the Habs team in fighting majors after only Prust and Moen?

Thanks.
This is a great question. The simple explanation is that any game filled with Habs fights means they've lost focus or lost their temper or lost their game plan. And then, as inevitably as Montreal road closures, they've lost the game. Bet your mortgage on it. Invest in stock. Einstein recognized it as the Unifying Theory of the Universe, but he didn't tell us 'cause he was a Flyers fan:

If you see Habs fighting, turn the TV off 'cause the game is toast.

It has nothing to do with how well our players fight and who takes down whom. The problem isn't the fists themselves, it's the abandonment of discipline. Our players don't play angry well. They get hot under the collar and stop passing properly. They run around trying to hit everyone and forget to backcheck. Our team needs its discipline to win, and that means staying within their systematic game plan.

That comes with maturity, which is one thing the Bruins players have over ours, because they have more playoff experience. Boston has won a Cup and choked in epic fashion. Those extreme ups and downs taught their players to maintain focus in any situation. Maturity is Boston never quitting in that amazing game-7 against Toronto; immaturity is the panicky desperation that killed Toronto.

You asked about Prust and Emelin. I want to see Prust lead by example by NOT instigating useless fights (not the same thing as watching our players' backs). I want to see Emelin continue to deliver big clean checks and frustrate the other team off their game - which made him a target, which is why he ended up in those fights. I want focus, discipline, toughness and maturity. I don't EVER want to see the ridiculous examples of blind immaturity I saw against Ottawa in game-three, or in that stupid game during the season against the Leafs.

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06-21-2013, 09:31 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Shortened season and a late start helped him but this guy is always busted up.

The whole idea of landing him with Gomez and Cammy was a bad one. Our club is too small up front and we've got to break up the smurf club. We've have too many small players and some of them HAVE to go. DD is locked down, Pleks and Gallagher aren't going anywhere... Gionta is the logical choice.

Gionta's not a bad player but we should actively try to trade him in the offseason. Secondary scoring with at least some size (I'll settle for not being a smurf) isn't that hard to find dude.

We should be pushing for a guy like Bobby Ryan... maybe we can offer a package that includes Gionta. Whatever, just get it done. We have to turn the page on this because we aren't winning anything with a bunch of smurfs.
Secondary scoring isn't that hard.

Secondary scoring that is simultaneously primary defense is hard.

That's my freaking point man. What Gionta does isn't a superficial column you can knock out and not effect anything. He's a load bearing wall. The value isn't just in 25ish goals. Its in winning the defensive minutes. Playing Gionta with Plekanec means your throttling the other sides scoring with one line and putting a center with limited defensive talent (last two years Desharnais) in a position to run wild.

Now if you can get Bobby Ryan. Great. You have a succession plan. Put that's going to take a real package. Philly tries to do that because they are willing to trade young core assets at a drop of a hat because Holmgrom plays real life like and EA game. What young core asset do you want to give up for him, which is also, what hole do you want to create?

You know what else will keep a team from winning anything? Getting less talented.

Finally, these conversations always get stupid when Plekanec is deemed a smurf. A 200 lbs C is literally average sized for the center position. Centers, for the most part, aren't as big as people expect.


Last edited by Talks to Goalposts: 06-21-2013 at 09:43 AM.
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06-21-2013, 12:01 PM
  #122
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Secondary scoring isn't that hard.

Secondary scoring that is simultaneously primary defense is hard.

That's my freaking point man. What Gionta does isn't a superficial column you can knock out and not effect anything. He's a load bearing wall. The value isn't just in 25ish goals. Its in winning the defensive minutes. Playing Gionta with Plekanec means your throttling the other sides scoring with one line and putting a center with limited defensive talent (last two years Desharnais) in a position to run wild.

Now if you can get Bobby Ryan. Great. You have a succession plan. Put that's going to take a real package. Philly tries to do that because they are willing to trade young core assets at a drop of a hat because Holmgrom plays real life like and EA game. What young core asset do you want to give up for him, which is also, what hole do you want to create?

You know what else will keep a team from winning anything? Getting less talented.

Finally, these conversations always get stupid when Plekanec is deemed a smurf. A 200 lbs C is literally average sized for the center position. Centers, for the most part, aren't as big as people expect.
All I'm saying is that we should be actively shopping him dude. We have to change if we want to win. We've already got three other smurfs and Gionta's the odd man out.

He's a good player, if we offer him up in a package we should be able to get something in return. We have to get bigger it's as simple as that.

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06-21-2013, 01:13 PM
  #123
Talks to Goalposts
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
All I'm saying is that we should be actively shopping him dude. We have to change if we want to win. We've already got three other smurfs and Gionta's the odd man out.

He's a good player, if we offer him up in a package we should be able to get something in return. We have to get bigger it's as simple as that.
For the sub- 5'10 players, he's the least easily replaced after Gallagher though. What people have to realize is that if you want to set up the young'uns for the sweet scoring time you've got to have someone pushing on those defensive minutes. You can't just insert some a mediocrity in Gionta's place and not be less effective.

They are already down one top six winger, addition is required more than subtraction in this area.

The competitive window is when the team's best talent is cheap, that's coming fast. A 2nd round pick doesn't help much.

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06-21-2013, 02:18 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
I don't agree with your analysis. For one thing, the Hawks have outhit the Bruins in the series. The key to the Bruins success so far has been their timely scoring (including goals from the point by Boychuk and Krug), faceoff prowess (especially Bergeron's), goaltending, and tight defense (although it broke down in game 4 against the Hawks, when Chara was on for 4 GA). I should also remind you that the Habs won the season series against the Bruins using their speed and forechecking. (The Hawks are also speedy. by the way.) And remember, the Hawks haven't been getting remarkable goaltending from Crawford.

Sure, the Habs could use more physicality. They also need better playmaking and D. I hope having Emelin, Tinordi, and Beaulieu in the lineup will solve at least part of the problem.
Excuse the spelling Bickell is a big reason Chara was on and not affective for the 4 goals against the Bruins your talking about and how did that happen unlike the other 3 games Bickell was physical with him boxing Chara out or taking him out of the play completely allowing Teows and Kane or whoever to make the play needed or scoring the goals. Bickell big man no one on Montreal can help that way.

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06-21-2013, 02:34 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Harpo View Post
I like pretty much all of our players, but we're not balanced enough. Who's tough on our team?

FW:
Armstrong: More of a pest. His best hits are illegal and from 5 years ago.
Bourque: Big, but not a bruiser and has consistency issues.
Moen: Meh. Can't fight, and doesn't hit a lot. Was missing in 2013.
Pacioretty: Big, but not his role and not a hitter.
Prust: Great.
White: Too small, can't fight.

D:
Bouillon: Tough, but at 5'8'' and 37, he doesn't scare anyone.
Emelin: Excellent hitter, but can't back it up in scrums/fights.
Subban: Can hit, but too good to be his main purpose. Can't fight.

I mean who would stand up if someone as irrelevant as Boychuk or McQuaid decide to stir some ****? Prust, maybe Moen. And then we have to deal with Chara, Lucic, Thornton, Campbell, etc.

Thing is, I'm all for being faster and more talented than the Bruins, but if our grit factor is at 0, then it will always be something they can use to put us off our game, like they did to the Canucks.
I wouldn't call Boychuk irrelevant. He has a good shot from the point and scores goals. As for the Habs-Bruins match-up, the Habs have done OK on the scoreboard. Look it up if you can't remember.

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