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Jonathan Bernier Race Down to 3 Teams (TOR, PHI, MIN)

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Old
06-21-2013, 04:18 PM
  #226
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Originally Posted by CodeE View Post
I live in LA and watch a ton of Kings hockey. IMO, the Kings have a lot of defenseman, but could use higher quality players. Doughty & Voynov are solid, but Greene, Mitchell, and Regehr are all older and injury prone. Meanwhile, guys like Muzzin, Martinez, and Ellerby are decent but none have yet to establish themselves like Voynov has. Got a couple prospects but every team has prospects waiting in the wings.
Possible I suppose, It would be a typical lombardi move, he loves D. I don't think Green is injury prone or old BTW.

Having said that our obvious hole to fill is top 6 LW, It has been for years.

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06-21-2013, 04:19 PM
  #227
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In my mind Clutterbuck fits LA better and then add either Gustafson or Kuemper. The Wild wouldn't have space plus LA will want a young goalie prospect for the future.
These are my thoughts as well. I'd rather give up Kuemper, even though he's a bit more proven so far. I just have a good feeling about Gustafsson.

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06-21-2013, 04:20 PM
  #228
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Based on the last series of posts, the Wild have neither a first nor a young (somewhat valuable, or more) defenseman that will be included in a trade.

If the Wild are seriously involved, and I've heard as much for a few weeks, Clutterbuck or Setoguchi would likely the name going the other way.
I just want to make this perfectly clear (that sounds dikish and I don't mean it that way).

The Kings have too many D on the team today.

Doughty
Voynov
Martinez (rfa)
Greene
Muzzin (rfa)
Regehr
Mitchell
Ellerby

We also have time to negotiate with Scuderi as a possible (though at this point nobody knows) return.

We also have

Derek Forbort 6'5" just finished an excellent career at UND and has wet his feet in Manchester at the end of the season. He is 1 year away and was a 15th overall pick.

Nik Deslauriers another big hard hitting PMD hybrid type who plays with an edge and can put up points. he turned a corner this year and is a year away.

Kevin Gravel Senior at ScS (minny fans probably already know about him) The Kings and its fans are really high on him being an eventual (possibly as early as the start of the 14/15 season or 15/16 season at the latest. I have tons of articles and interviews with him if anyone is interested. Same with Forbort Martinez Muzzin and Deslauriers to name a few).

Along with several other great but lesser developed D in our system.

I think a good way to put it is that we are so deep on D that we had to let Hickey leave via waivers because we couldn't fit him onto our team and he wouldn't sign a cheap two way deal.

Ask Isles fans if they are happy with him. I think most will say that they are and probably very happy considering he was a waiver pick up.

If anything the Kings are looking to move D at this point so there really isn't any reason for them to pick up another D.

We are over deep on D and like I said, we have to start moving them to make room. I would very very highly doubt that the Kings would take any D back in a deal without sending another D the other way and then would likely still have to make another deal to move another D to make room.


Top 6 forward who can play LW?

We have Tanner Pearson who has done an excellent job in our system and had a great 1st pro year in MCH. He looked really good during his short playoff call up all things considered. He is big enough and plays a really smart game. Is he top 6 LW ready? I think he is considering who he would be paired with but if he had another year on the farm it would only help.

Maxim Kitsyn is coming back over after servings his time in the Gulag. He could be a 2nd line grinder/battler LW but is more suited to 3rd line duties. That said he is a question mark to most because of his having to honor his previous contract in Russia.

After that we are left with the leading scorer of the SEL Bud Holloway who we have been talking to about returning to the team but it hasn't gone perfectly well just yet. He would be our best bet for a top 6 LW but nobody is certain rather or not he will come hone to us.


In other words we are weak on top 6 skilled LW and need to address that situation.

Other than that we are more then set.

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06-21-2013, 04:20 PM
  #229
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Woohoo still in the Bernier sweepstakes baby!! We need a goalie who can control a rebound and doesn't play goal with 2 blockers

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06-21-2013, 04:22 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by this providence View Post
Based on the last series of posts, the Wild have neither a first nor a young (somewhat valuable, or more) defenseman that will be included in a trade.

If the Wild are seriously involved, and I've heard as much for a few weeks, Clutterbuck or Setoguchi would likely the name going the other way.
Setoguchi makes way too much for the Kings. Clutterbuck will probably make a decent amount on his next contract too.

Anything can happen, but the Kings aren't in a position to take much salary back, as things stand. If there are other trades, or a larger deal involving Bernier, that could change things. But Lombardi has been pretty dead set on keeping together as much of the Kings from the last two years as possible.

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06-21-2013, 04:23 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Billy Mays Here View Post
These are my thoughts as well. I'd rather give up Kuemper, even though he's a bit more proven so far. I just have a good feeling about Gustafsson.
Clutterbuck, a very nice player for certain to add to our team made $1,7m and is due a raise. He will cost to sign and might be too pricey for us for this coming season without our sending more back in the deal which wouldn't work all too well. Still possible but not perfect.

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06-21-2013, 04:26 PM
  #232
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I've always heard nonis say repeatedly if he can upgrade the goaltending position at a reasonable price, he'll do it. That's why I think he's going after bernier. it creates good competition between reimer and bernier and will bring out the best in them.

Also to the people saying why do we need bernier when we have reimer...do you have faith in scrivens to carry the goaltending load when Reims gets a long term injury? the team was nervous as hell when scrivens was in net. having bernier gives us insurance.

I'm looking forward to having bernier on the team. having competition in net is not a bad thing people!

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06-21-2013, 04:27 PM
  #233
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make the most sense

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06-21-2013, 04:28 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
Setoguchi makes way too much for the Kings. Clutterbuck will probably make a decent amount on his next contract too.

Anything can happen, but the Kings aren't in a position to take much salary back, as things stand. If there are other trades, or a larger deal involving Bernier, that could change things. But Lombardi has been pretty dead set on keeping together as much of the Kings from the last two years as possible.
Reasonable.

If the Wild are an option, however, those are the names. Granlund, Brodin, Coyle, Zucker, and Dumba will likely not be moving in any trade due to the Wild needing their cost controlled play in the next several years. And given the Wild have minimal higher draft assets the next two seasons, it brings the conversation back to Minnesota's NHL roster.

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06-21-2013, 04:29 PM
  #235
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The Kings could afford Bernier for roughly 3M for one more year, but it's clearly not an ideal situation. The Kings also have more FA's to sign next summer so that's why the Kings would want cheaper players.
but they couldn't afford a top 9 player making 1.6M? Makes no sense that they'd be willing to spend 2x as much for a back up goalie but would be unwilling to spend 1/2 that on a 17 minute a night player.

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06-21-2013, 04:30 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by nazembiggs View Post
Woohoo still in the Bernier sweepstakes baby!! We need a goalie who can control a rebound and doesn't play goal with 2 blockers
You know, other than how perfectly stable and calm Bernier plays in net (which is incredible to watch) I would say that his rebound control is his best attribute and what sets him apart from most goalies. His rebound control, positional play and just flat out steady demeanor is right there among the best.

I don't think any Kings fans would disagree that Bernier has better rebound control than Quick and that the two aren't entirely too far apart in the skill department. I know people see Bernier as a back up and sure, he isn't our starter but most Kings fans myself included think of him more as a 1b then a typical back up.

Whoever gets him is going to be really happy they did and some people are going to feel pretty foolish for some of their criticism's of his play in threads like this.

Bernier would supplant Reimer by the time the season started or right there after and I like Reimer allot. He's is a better goalie then some people seem to think and would be an acceptable starter for certain if you have a team that is very D oriented.

Bernier can help any team with any system. That is the big difference between the two to me.

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06-21-2013, 04:30 PM
  #237
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Lavoie is the french version of Dreger. Very well connected.
I don't put much stock into Dreger so that isn't a positive.

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06-21-2013, 04:32 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by frankthetank91 View Post
I will be one of the few positives on this site: I hope the Leafs land Jonathan Bernier. No matter who is rumoured to who on these boards fan reaction is usually: "Please ___ don't offer for him!!!"

I personally want him. Confessions of a Leaf fan: While I like Reimer he is one of those goalies who has the ability to steal games but still not trust him the next game. Harsh reality but that's how I feel, he is good but inconsistent. I want some healthy competition in goal. Let them compete and then flip the other down the road.
Meh, we all have our opinions.

Praying Bernier goes to the goalie graveyards (Isles, Flyers) and no-where near the Leafs.

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06-21-2013, 04:33 PM
  #239
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Meh, we all have our opinions.

Praying Bernier goes to the goalie graveyards (Isles, Flyers) and no-where near the Leafs.
Its hysterical you use this line. What exactly is Toronto?


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06-21-2013, 04:34 PM
  #240
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Possible I suppose, It would be a typical lombardi move, he loves D. I don't think Green is injury prone or old BTW.

Having said that our obvious hole to fill is top 6 LW, It has been for years.
Just my opinion that I don't really see much from Muzzin, Martinez, or Ellerby. They're not bad defensemen per say, but they can definitely be upgraded. It would be like me saying the Islanders don't need to ask for a defenseman because we have Carkner, Hickey, and Strait. They're okay in their roles but they're not good enough (ie Doughty & Voynov level) to be permanent blueline fixtures.

Greene really isn't injury-prone or old, and will for sure be on LA's blueline. Still, the Kings were scrambling for the majority of the season when he went down, showing that any player can suffer a season-ending injury at any time. Assuming Scuderi leaves, the Kings will need someone to step up and take on the responsibility of added minutes.

If simply placing prospects into an NHL lineup and seeing them immediately succeed were that easy, every team would do it. Every team has prospects that their fanbase is convinced will be 10+ year fixtures on their team, still gotta see how they perform on NHL ice before you can write them into next year's lineup with pen.

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06-21-2013, 04:34 PM
  #241
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Its hysterical you use this line. What exactly is Toronto?

Reimer is first decent to good goalie the Leafs have had in how long? Especially coming from a team that traded Rask for Raycroft.

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06-21-2013, 04:37 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Reimer is first decent to good goalie the Leafs have had in how long? Especially coming from a team that traded Rask for Raycroft.
EXACTLY!!

We don't need Bernier to sit on the bench and watch Reimer just like he does to Quick.

See ya in NYI or Philly Bernier!!! Maybe you'll make it, but history says you wont

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06-21-2013, 04:38 PM
  #243
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but they couldn't afford a top 9 player making 1.6M? Makes no sense that they'd be willing to spend 2x as much for a back up goalie but would be unwilling to spend 1/2 that on a 17 minute a night player.
What top 9 player are you referring to?

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06-21-2013, 04:38 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Reimer is first decent to good goalie the Leafs have had in how long? Especially coming from a team that traded Rask for Raycroft.
So one "decent" goalie in how long? And they're NOT a goalie graveyard. Got it.


Last edited by ThirdManIn: 06-22-2013 at 10:44 AM. Reason: fan base bashing
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06-21-2013, 04:40 PM
  #245
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Its hysterical you use this line. What exactly is Toronto?

Definitely a graveyard.

Unless your name is James Reimer.

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06-21-2013, 04:42 PM
  #246
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No offense, but I really doubt Lombardi has given you the inside scoop on the dynamics of offer sheets in the NHL. You're obviously an honest guy, so I don't doubt you talked with him. I just don't think he has sat down and explained to you inner workings of NHL GMs.
Well, no, he didn't. But every year I go to the Kings development camp, and I watch the prospects as they play on the ice and as they do off-ice activities at the Toyota Sports Center. We've talked in passing several times over the years (I doubt he remembers me, but he's very open to fans). He has told me some stuff, and told me about them hiring Terry Murray before it was announced ("as long as I don't run and tell my friends on the Internet, ha ha"). He didn't explain in detail the inner workings of GMs, but he did say that offer sheets **** off other GMs, and teams with cap space will try to get revenge on GMs (which is another reason the Kings wanted to have a lot of cap space during their rebuilding years). Whether you want to believe me or not is up to you, but that much he did tell me.

Quote:
I still think your claim that other teams won't offer sheet Bernier because they don't want to mess with Lombardi is a bit silly.

They won't offer sheet because it doesn't make good sense, for lots of reasons.
As I said, it isn't about Lombardi in particular. But Lombardi was telling me this, if I recall correctly, after Kevin Lowe offer sheeted Tomas Vanek then offer sheeted Dustin Penner. Neither of them affected Lombardi directly, but it pissed him off this was done to other GMs, and I got the feeling other GMs feel the same way.

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06-21-2013, 04:43 PM
  #247
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Bernier has just bad luck to play behind Quick.
He would be a starter goalie on 28 teams of the NHL.

There must be alot of happy crack dealers in your area if you really think
Bernier would sit behind Scrivens.

Maybe you wake up some day from your pipedream and realize that the
hot dog sales man from section 319 would be a starter on your team.
Really now? I'm just curious, other than Quick, who I guess you think is the best goalie in the league, who is the only other starter in the NHL that you think Bernier sits behind? Vezina winner Bobrovsky? Lundqvist? Rask? Miller? You honestly think he's better than 3 of those 4 guys? And better than Howard, Rinne, Bakstrom, Hiller, Luongo, Schneider, Holtby, Price?


Last edited by ThirdManIn: 06-22-2013 at 10:45 AM. Reason: no
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06-21-2013, 04:44 PM
  #248
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Just my opinion that I don't really see much from Muzzin, Martinez, or Ellerby. They're not bad defensemen per say, but they can definitely be upgraded. It would be like me saying the Islanders don't need to ask for a defenseman because we have Carkner, Hickey, and Strait. They're okay in their roles but they're not good enough (ie Doughty & Voynov level) to be permanent blueline fixtures.

Greene really isn't injury-prone or old, and will for sure be on LA's blueline. Still, the Kings were scrambling for the majority of the season when he went down, showing that any player can suffer a season-ending injury at any time. Assuming Scuderi leaves, the Kings will need someone to step up and take on the responsibility of added minutes.

If simply placing prospects into an NHL lineup and seeing them immediately succeed were that easy, every team would do it. Every team has prospects that their fanbase is convinced will be 10+ year fixtures on their team, still gotta see how they perform on NHL ice before you can write them into next year's lineup with pen.
You haven't seen enough of how very good Martinez actually is. His tough season this past year was due to him having both orbital bones broken in his face and a pretty broken collar bone. By the time he came back he had lost his job to Muzzin, a rookie who finished 3rd in all rookie D scoring and ended up with a +16 that lead all rookie D and was right up with the forwards too.

Martinez is considerably better than Hickey (who I like and am happy he has found a place on the Isles).

Also, we scrambled because we were without Willie Mitchell (our #1SAH D and one of our team leaders) for the entire season and Greene who we got back for the playoffs. Having to replace Martinez Greene and Mitchell is what had us scrambling. We stopped doing so after we picked up Regehr.

We truly don't need any D coming back at all. Our depth on D is beyond exceptional. The only way I can see us wanting to take D back is if we know that, A, we won't be re-signing Scuderi, B, Willie isn't coming back and will be on LTIR or C, both of those situations are going to happen and we need a veteran to replace one of them.

If we did lose Scuderi and WMitchell our D would still be

Regehr
Greene
Doughty
Voynov
Martinez
Muzzin
Ellerby

That top 4 is exceptional and Martinez is steady as a rock or will be after having the summer to train and get his game back. Muzzin like I have said was one of the best rookie D (1st to 3rd in all rookie categories among D) D from last season. We would love to have WM or RS back but if it doesn't happen we are still very good on D.

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06-21-2013, 04:44 PM
  #249
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Source on #Isles and Bernier: "Wouldn't say they are out, but those other 3 (Leafs, Wild, Philly) are definitely in."

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06-21-2013, 04:48 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by King'sPawn View Post
As I said, it isn't about Lombardi in particular. But Lombardi was telling me this, if I recall correctly, after Kevin Lowe offer sheeted Tomas Vanek then offer sheeted Dustin Penner. Neither of them affected Lombardi directly, but it pissed him off this was done to other GMs, and I got the feeling other GMs feel the same way.
And yet in less than 1 calendar year we've seen at least 2 offer sheets that have been signed by a player.

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