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2013 NHL Draft Discussion Thread - Part II

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Old
06-21-2013, 10:29 AM
  #101
Drouin2Stamkos
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I still want Drouin but if SY and co want Barkov, I have no complaints.

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06-21-2013, 11:43 AM
  #102
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in order to survive any living being must change. You, I and every other person must change if we were to succeed. Same goes for business companies, sport teams and etc.
If we draft Drouin we wont change, we'll just have Marty 2.0(not saying thats a bad thing).
Most of you want Drouin to play with Stamkos on the 1st line, then what if they get shutdown what will happen?you need players who can provide offense one their own, and then spread them out on different lines - in the regular season you may get away with playing your 2 best players on the same line but the playoffs are a different animal.
As i said before we need a player with size and skills - Nichushkin or Barkov

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06-21-2013, 12:13 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HedMonster 77 View Post
in order to survive any living being must change. You, I and every other person must change if we were to succeed. Same goes for business companies, sport teams and etc.
If we draft Drouin we wont change, we'll just have Marty 2.0(not saying thats a bad thing).
Most of you want Drouin to play with Stamkos on the 1st line, then what if they get shutdown what will happen?you need players who can provide offense one their own, and then spread them out on different lines - in the regular season you may get away with playing your 2 best players on the same line but the playoffs are a different animal.
As i said before we need a player with size and skills - Nichushkin or Barkov
What about if the HedMonster lurks within the valley of the shadow of Seth?

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06-21-2013, 01:36 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by 2 Weekes Notice View Post
What about if the HedMonster lurks within the valley of the shadow of Seth?

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06-21-2013, 02:08 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Rschmitz View Post
Dude, you listed an 18 year old rookie over V4, and im simply asking why. No need to get salty and split hairs over what I thought you were implying.

So what is your justification?
What I would like to see and what actually happens are two different things. Nowhere did I explicitly say that Vinny was not good enough to be our 2nd line center. Placing Barkov in our line-up was simply to show how strong our center depth would be if we drafted him, nothing more.

Again, simply your conjecture and arriving to your own conclusions.

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06-21-2013, 02:11 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by HedMonster 77 View Post
in order to survive any living being must change. You, I and every other person must change if we were to succeed. Same goes for business companies, sport teams and etc.
If we draft Drouin we wont change, we'll just have Marty 2.0(not saying thats a bad thing).
Most of you want Drouin to play with Stamkos on the 1st line, then what if they get shutdown what will happen?you need players who can provide offense one their own, and then spread them out on different lines - in the regular season you may get away with playing your 2 best players on the same line but the playoffs are a different animal.
As i said before we need a player with size and skills - Nichushkin or Barkov
If Drouin is not the #1 prospect at creating offense on his own, then no one else in this draft is capable of doing so. Scoring goals on their own and creating offense on their own are different by the way.

He's the guy who makes everyone else around him better, with Barkov and Mac following him in that regard.

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06-21-2013, 02:34 PM
  #107
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For the Barkov crew, I was looking for some solid footage and hopped over to the Avs board and found this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thomast View Post
...
I just found a video which includes Barkov's all shifts from one game. This is 8months old video and Barkov is #16 with the golden helmet. You can see that Barkov glides alot but when he sees the openings he can skate suprisingly fast. You can see how he helps the D pushing opposite player to the boards to Defenseman can just pick up the puck. Again Barkov was just turned 17 and he played against grown up men. It's not like playing against 16-19 year old and make highlight reel dekes against them. This is not a highlight reel but all shifts from one game so you can get better picture of his game.
...





Things that I noticed:

-Great Hands
-Boardwork
-Phenomenal 200-foot game

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Old
06-21-2013, 02:34 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by 2 Weekes Notice View Post
What about if the HedMonster lurks within the valley of the shadow of Seth?

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06-21-2013, 03:05 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Tampa Bay Trio View Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Klinkhammer View Post
Copycat. I made that meme damn it.

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06-21-2013, 03:06 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by 2 Weekes Notice View Post
What about if the HedMonster lurks within the valley of the shadow of Seth?
Awesome.

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Old
06-21-2013, 03:08 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Tampa Bay Trio View Post
Why is it so hard to understand? Just because a player has size, does not make him a good fit. Nichushkin is not really physical and doesn't play with a warrior like mentality. He gets away with a lot and is able to dominate at times because of his size, but that's what scares me the most - players who primarily use their size to stand out at lower levels often have a more difficult time in the NHL when players are just as strong and fast.
Here's a hit in the KHL. I think most scouts agree that he does have that going for him, that he can play with an edge and be physical.

@1:43


Quote:
In addition, in the viewings I've had, he's a very selfish player who doesn't make those around him better or use his teammates enough, if at all at times.
If you're talking about the WJC, I agree he didn't pass the puck at all really. And a lot of the Russians on that squad didn't play like a team and try to use their linemates. Most of the time they tried to play as individuals and do everything themselves. Yakupov had a terrible tournament doing that. But in the links to the the U-18 videos I posted in the other draft thread, he uses his linemates and passes the puck just fine. It's interesting to watch him play on a scoring line and not a checking line, and work on the 1st pp unit. He actually makes good passes too. He's on a line with his buddy Pavel Buchnevich.

Maybe it's a problem with the way the team was constructed or coached, or something, because that U-18 team played better together than the U-20 team.
Quote:
We're not devoid of scoring wingers either, so really the only need he fills is one of size.

Barkov, on the other hand, makes players around him better, has size and plays at an integral position of need for any team. SC teams are built on center depth and Barkov makes us harder to play against, while also being able to elevate the play of others around him.

Same goes for Drouin in terms of making those around him better. He doesn't have the size of the aforementioned two, but if we're going with a winger, at least he's a fit alongside Stamkos as a playmaking LW.
We don't have any big wingers who play a power forward game other than maybe Panik or Hart. Speaking of Panik if you want to look at some of his original scouting reports for his draft, they share a lot of the same critiques: character concerns, inconsistent effort, out of shape. With Drouin I don't think we have anyone in the pipeline who plays like him, let alone shows the same amount of skill with the puck as him. Kucherov is probably the closest thing, with his speed, hands, and ability to make plays. And Barkov, we have a few two-way centers with top 6 potential. All kind of a moot point anyway since they'll go with bpa.

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Old
06-21-2013, 03:22 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by TheDaysOf 04 View Post
Here's a hit in the KHL. I think most scouts agree that he does have that going for him, that he can play with an edge and be physical.

@1:43


If you're talking about the WJC, I agree he didn't pass the puck at all really. And a lot of the Russians on that squad didn't play like a team and try to use their linemates. Most of the time they tried to play as individuals and do everything themselves. Yakupov had a terrible tournament doing that. But in the links to the the U-18 videos I posted in the other draft thread, he uses his linemates and passes the puck just fine. It's interesting to watch him play on a scoring line and not a checking line, and work on the 1st pp unit. He actually makes good passes too. He's on a line with his buddy Pavel Buchnevich.

Maybe it's a problem with the way the team was constructed or coached, or something, because that U-18 team played better together than the U-20 team. We don't have any big wingers who play a power forward game other than maybe Panik or Hart. Speaking of Panik if you want to look at some of his original scouting reports for his draft, they share a lot of the same critiques: character concerns, inconsistent effort, out of shape. With Drouin I don't think we have anyone in the pipeline who plays like him, let alone shows the same amount of skill with the puck as him. Kucherov is probably the closest thing, with his speed, hands, and ability to make plays. And Barkov, we have a few two-way centers with top 6 potential. All kind of a moot point anyway since they'll go with bpa.
Oh without a doubt, you're right that Nichushkin can be physical. He doesn't play with an edge often enough and he does not hit nearly enough for someone with his size. You'd expect him to be more physical, but he's a skilled player in a big body.

I was actually referring to all of the KHL, WJC and U-18's. Nichushkin is a great individual talent and every time I see him play I'm left wondering why he didn't use his teammates more. I guess it could be the Russian style of play and how they're coached, but great players know how to get the best of their linemates too, not just have them along for the ride.

I find Kucherov to be more of a goalscorer than playmaker, with outstanding hands of course. I'm not convinced his skills and vision are of the same ilk as a player like Drouin. He strikes me more as a shoot/dangle-first than pass first. We definitely do not have a dynamic playmaker in our prospect pool.

In terms of Barkov, I really don't think we have a few two-way centers with top 6 potential. TJ could be an average 2C, while Namestnikov is still a question mark for me at this point and may even be shifted to the wing down the road. Barkov has that rare ability to make players around him better and has that elite potential at center that we simply don't have in our prospect pool (the same could be said about wingers, but Kucherov has some potential to maybe eventually be an elite talent).

Personally, centers are always of higher importance than wingers for me when it comes to the draft. Much more difficult to come by elite centers through FA than it is to come by wingers of a similar mould.

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Old
06-21-2013, 04:19 PM
  #113
Rschmitz
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Originally Posted by Tampa Bay Trio View Post
What I would like to see and what actually happens are two different things. Nowhere did I explicitly say that Vinny was not good enough to be our 2nd line center. Placing Barkov in our line-up was simply to show how strong our center depth would be if we drafted him, nothing more.

Again, simply your conjecture and arriving to your own conclusions.
I didn't conjecture anything, I asked you for details and you got defensive. Notice the question marks? Are you familiar with end punctuation in the English language?

I was actually doing the polite thing by giving you an out, which you failed to notice and turned on me. I won't be doing the polite thing again for you.

Your explanation is akin to me pairing Hedman with Brewer on the bottom to show our defensive depth, which makes no sense. Whatever, I'll concede to whatever point you were trying to make.

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Old
06-21-2013, 04:31 PM
  #114
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Old
06-21-2013, 04:31 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rschmitz View Post
I didn't conjecture anything, I asked you for details and you got defensive. Notice the question marks? Are you familiar with end punctuation in the English language?

I was actually doing the polite thing by giving you an out, which you failed to notice and turned on me. I won't be doing the polite thing again for you.

Your explanation is akin to me pairing Hedman with Brewer on the bottom to show our defensive depth, which makes no sense. Whatever, I'll concede to whatever point you were trying to make.
If Brewer is on our bottom pairing, it would show that he's still on this team and that we still lack defensive depth.

It's not about conceding to a point. I thought you were referencing my comment about Vinny not being elite as me not seeing Vinny as a 2nd line center (the latter which is something I never said). I am hopeful that Barkov can eventually be our 2nd line C. Was he placed there in a speculative line-up too quickly? Sure, but again that wasn't the point of the line-ups, just something I have a preference to see in his 9 game stint before being sent back (if we do draft him).

I read your final question about justification as a snarky, rhetorical question, so my apologies if it was misinterpreted .

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06-21-2013, 05:02 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Tampa Bay Trio View Post
If Brewer is on our bottom pairing, it would show that he's still on this team and that we still lack defensive depth.

It's not about conceding to a point. I thought you were referencing my comment about Vinny not being elite as me not seeing Vinny as a 2nd line center (the latter which is something I never said). I am hopeful that Barkov can eventually be our 2nd line C. Was he placed there in a speculative line-up too quickly? Sure, but again that wasn't the point of the line-ups, just something I have a preference to see in his 9 game stint before being sent back (if we do draft him).

I read your final question about justification as a snarky, rhetorical question, so my apologies if it was misinterpreted .
Its all good bro, I wasn't trying to be snarky, I just didn't understand you. This was more of the response I was looking for, cheers!

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06-21-2013, 05:08 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Rschmitz View Post
Its all good bro, I wasn't trying to be snarky, I just didn't understand you. This was more of the response I was looking for, cheers!
Glad we're on the same page now . I sometimes get bored, especially in the summer with the lack of stuff to talk about, so I sometimes say controversial things just to see if anyone will respond .

I was pushing your buttons originally, but you were so polite and nice that I felt bad for doing so afterwards

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06-21-2013, 05:36 PM
  #118
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06-21-2013, 06:06 PM
  #119
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If it does break down between Nichuskin and Barkov, I would much rather have Barkov. Strength up the middle is something that is hard to find. And I would rather have a player like Barkov who is smart and effective on both ends of the Ice. I am tired of looking at forwards who have a complete brain fart in our end.

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06-21-2013, 10:52 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by stryfe604 View Post
If it does break down between Nichuskin and Barkov, I would much rather have Barkov. Strength up the middle is something that is hard to find. And I would rather have a player like Barkov who is smart and effective on both ends of the Ice. I am tired of looking at forwards who have a complete brain fart in our end.
Ya, and Barkov would really help fill a need more than Nich would for us.

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06-22-2013, 03:01 AM
  #121
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I'm trying to say that we need a different type of player than Drouin to change how the team plays, Drouin does not bring another type of play he's like Marty.
I haven't watched Valery that much, but he reminds me of Ovechkin - he sees point A and does whatever he can to go there, he is emotional, electrifying, can intimidate people, can hit people and he is big and has skills.
I would take Valery because he is simply the player i would enjoy watching the most.

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06-22-2013, 05:39 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by HedMonster 77 View Post
I'm trying to say that we need a different type of player than Drouin to change how the team plays, Drouin does not bring another type of play he's like Marty.
I haven't watched Valery that much, but he reminds me of Ovechkin - he sees point A and does whatever he can to go there, he is emotional, electrifying, can intimidate people, can hit people and he is big and has skills.
I would take Valery because he is simply the player i would enjoy watching the most.
With a few exceptions, a single player one way or the other isn't going to determine how a team plays. It seems like you're insinuating that we can't win with a Marty type player, but 2004 and 2011 should show you that's not the case. I don't think the team needs a radical identity shift, as much as it needs some fine tuning. They need to play as a five man unit on both sides of the ice, no matter who we pick.

Also, let's face it... our D needs some work. In 2011 it wasn't the deepest group, but we did have three pairings that we could count on to do their jobs, while now, if Hedman isn't on the ice, we're in trouble. Part of that is mentality, but part of it is personnel as well.

And I'm not sold on the individual electric forward type... especially since the comparison between Ovi and Nichushkin pretty much stop at Russian. Nichushkin is a Nash clone, not an Ovi clone... and I've never been too impressed with Nash.

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06-22-2013, 10:32 AM
  #123
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I think everyone needs to stop comparing Drouin to Marty. There will only ever be 1 Martin St. Louis, no player is ever going to replace be able to replace him. They are both small and elite level playmakers, don't see any other basis of a Marty replacement there.


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06-22-2013, 12:34 PM
  #124
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Plus doesn't Drouin have a few inches on Marty. Doesn't everybody? I agree there will never be another MSL. One of a kind. Everybody wishes they had one on their team. I just love the potential of a Stamkos and Drouin line. Potential of being one of the most dangerous scoring duos we've seen. That's fun to watch. I have confidence SY could fill out the rest of our lines with what we need. Drouin just seems to good to pass up.

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06-22-2013, 03:23 PM
  #125
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I updated my wishlist.

1st:
Barkov
Mackinnon
Drouin
Monahan

Yzerman values 2-way play more than our previous managements, and rightfully so, as that's what playoff hockey is about, it's also a weak spot for us. Barkov, Mac, and Monahan have an edge here. Drouin is a special offensive talent. We have a strong need for RD, so Jones is tempting, but his lack of physical play, not stepping up well in big games, and not being in great shape for the combine bothers me. Nichushkin has great size and wheels, but seems to only have good hands, which will limit him some I think.

2nd:
Pulock
Mueller
Morrissey
Santini
Poirier
Hartman
Dano

Pulock played for a terrible team and played with an injured wrist for most of the season, so there is a chance he could slide to us. Mueller has every attribute a dman is supposed to have. Morrissey reminds me of a feistier version of Dan Boyle. Santini is tremendous defensively, carries the puck well and passes well, but he doesn't pinch often, so his points are low. It should be easy to have him adjust to a more 2way style. Poirier, Hartman, and Dano are the feisty, 2-way forwards that we have been drafting sucessfully recently. Hartman and Dano are a touch small, but keepers nontheless.

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