HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Jonathan Bernier Race Down to 3 Teams (TOR, PHI, MIN)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-21-2013, 05:23 PM
  #276
TheKingPin
Registered User
 
TheKingPin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 7,903
vCash: 500
No way the flyers offer more than read and pick/prospect. Kings have to figure out if they like that better than other options that may be better on paper but not fitting as well. I think read would be the ideal player in LA. Almost exactly what you guys need. And if he walks next year then that sucks but you'd have a very good shot at it this year

TheKingPin is offline  
Old
06-21-2013, 05:24 PM
  #277
CodeE
Registered User
 
CodeE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 3,090
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Long post
You can keep telling me how great Martinez & Muzzin are, I've seen both of them play many times before and don't see either of them becoming anything other than serviceable NHL depth defensemen. Sure Muzzin put up good points for a rookie but he's 24 years old (and Martinez is 25), I doubt either of them will develop and improve much more than the players they are right now. If they were 21-22 and looked like that, it would be a different story. Mitchell & Regehr are veteran stay-at-home guys, but all it takes is one blocked shot or body check to put them back on the IR.

I'm not saying the Kings absolutely need to trade for a defenseman, I'm just saying if they do trade Bernier for say Meszaros or Coburn, it would definitely improve the team and remove the sting from Scuderi leaving.

How much do Kings fans think Muzzin & Martinez are going to get on their next contracts, seeing as they're both RFAs? You guys seem to value them very highly, are they $2.5 million players? $3 million? More than that? I don't think it's a coincidence that Voynov was resigned first.

CodeE is offline  
Old
06-21-2013, 05:26 PM
  #278
Diamonddog01
Registered User
 
Diamonddog01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,151
vCash: 500
No, they aren't.

Every other fanbase wants to pay peanuts for good goaltending - which is ridiculous. Goaltenders are a very dominant player in today's game.

Bernier should garner Schenn or Couturier. Ie young players with similar potential.

Diamonddog01 is offline  
Old
06-21-2013, 05:26 PM
  #279
hockeyjack89
R.I.P. Thrashers
 
hockeyjack89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 1,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CornKicker View Post
i'd rather just make a deal for Cosby or Quack
That would never happen

hockeyjack89 is offline  
Old
06-21-2013, 05:28 PM
  #280
hockeyjack89
R.I.P. Thrashers
 
hockeyjack89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 1,420
vCash: 500
It's not gonna happen but Edmonton maybe??

hockeyjack89 is offline  
Old
06-21-2013, 05:28 PM
  #281
nazembiggs*
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Vaughan, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 939
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
No, they aren't.

Every other fanbase wants to pay peanuts for good goaltending - which is ridiculous. Goaltenders are a very dominant player in today's game.

Bernier should garner Schenn or Couturier. Ie young players with similar potential.
Lol only reason your saying that is so Schneider will return the same in a trade if he needs to be dealt.

nazembiggs* is offline  
Old
06-21-2013, 05:30 PM
  #282
Darth Milbury
Registered User
 
Darth Milbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Searching for Kvasha
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 37,482
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
I find it hard to believe that the Isles would be out this early. The only reason they would is if the other offers became too high to pay.
I'm not surprised at all. This kind of deal is just not Snow's MO. He is much more likely to find some guy tucked away in another organization's AHL team then he is to pursue a high ticket type.

Darth Milbury is offline  
Old
06-21-2013, 05:31 PM
  #283
LEAFS FAN 4 EVER
GO LEAFS GO
 
LEAFS FAN 4 EVER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,775
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
No, they aren't.

Every other fanbase wants to pay peanuts for good goaltending - which is ridiculous. Goaltenders are a very dominant player in today's game.

Bernier should garner Schenn or Couturier. Ie young players with similar potential.
The problem is no team is willing to pay the price of a Brayden Schenn, Sean Couturier or even a 1st round pick for a Goalie who has been a back-up, even though he might have great potiental to be a #1 Goalie.

Los Angeles knows they have to trade him because they have Quck for the long term and based on that I can't see them getting top value in return.

LEAFS FAN 4 EVER is offline  
Old
06-21-2013, 05:35 PM
  #284
Clyde Donovan
Registered User
 
Clyde Donovan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Philly
Country: United States
Posts: 1,379
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
No, they aren't.

Every other fanbase wants to pay peanuts for good goaltending - which is ridiculous. Goaltenders are a very dominant player in today's game.

Bernier should garner Schenn or Couturier. Ie young players with similar potential.
Except history shows that a young unproven previous back up goalie doesn't get a Schenn/Couturier type prospect.

Clyde Donovan is offline  
Old
06-21-2013, 05:35 PM
  #285
nazembiggs*
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Vaughan, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 939
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKingPin View Post
Second post I saw saying bernier could be the third best goalie in the nhl. That's just flat out embarrassing. I'm not sure he has HUGE potential anymore then some others but everyone has a goalie with a few looking ahead like the wild and devils and a few not sound like the flyers. If there's no demand doesn't matter what the supply its not worth a lot unless the seller doesn't and holds on for a big deal or nothing
1. I never said he could be a top 3 goalie in the league. I said he has potential to be a top 10 goalie in this league.

2. Why would he no longer have huge potential for a goalie ? Goalies usually take longer to develop so 24 is still young for a goalie. He was plenty of room to grow. Also I don't know how you can loose potential playing behind the best goalie In the world. He defiently has picked up a few things from quick these last couple of years.

3. I don't buy that whole there's no demand thing. There were reports of 10 teams interested that's 33 percent of the league. He's the best young goalie on the market and even if there's only three teams bidding for him, the demand is still high.

nazembiggs* is offline  
Old
06-21-2013, 05:39 PM
  #286
Richie10
Registered User
 
Richie10's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,468
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKingPin View Post
Second post I saw saying bernier could be the third best goalie in the nhl. That's just flat out embarrassing. I'm not sure he has HUGE potential anymore then some others but everyone has a goalie with a few looking ahead like the wild and devils and a few not sound like the flyers. If there's no demand doesn't matter what the supply its not worth a lot unless the seller doesn't and holds on for a big deal or nothing
This is absurd. No one is saying that.

Kings fans are perfectly comfortable with how good we feel Bernier is. We're not delusional or overhyping anything. We've watched Bernier develop, we've watched him play, and we all argued for years about who was better between he and Quick. That fact that a Cup and Conn Smythe winning goaltender is even up for comparison with "back up" Bernier tells you all you need to know about how good of a goaltender Bernier is and will continue to be.

There are STILL Kings fans who think we should keep Bernier and trade Quick. Think about that for a second. Quick won a Conn Smythe trophy just last year and played out of his mind en route to another WCF appearance and there is a large majority of the fan base who still believe Bernier is the better option. He's a goaltender that was drafted and developed almost to perfection by the franchise for 6 years now and no one is comfortable giving him up for peanuts. Excuse us for valuing our players in correct regard.

No one is saying Bernier is the best goaltender in the league. Everyone agrees that he still needs to "prove" his worth as a starter. But the development track, investment, and scouting reports all point to a very, VERY good goaltender that is worth more than a 2nd round pick and some scrubby forward prospect. That's just the reality. The idea that a bidding war has even emerged over "back up" Bernier tells you all you need to know about his value. When there's zero market for an established goaltender like Luongo, regardless of the bad contract, yet teams are seemingly falling over themselves trying to trade for Bernier, that tells you all you need to know about his trade value to other teams.

Richie10 is offline  
Old
06-21-2013, 05:41 PM
  #287
Diamonddog01
Registered User
 
Diamonddog01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,151
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clyde Donovan View Post
Except history shows that a young unproven previous back up goalie doesn't get a Schenn/Couturier type prospect.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Varlamov get a 1st round pick and a 2nd as well?

Diamonddog01 is offline  
Old
06-21-2013, 05:43 PM
  #288
Darth Milbury
Registered User
 
Darth Milbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Searching for Kvasha
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 37,482
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Varlamov get a 1st round pick and a 2nd as well?
A 1st and a 2nd.

Darth Milbury is offline  
Old
06-21-2013, 05:47 PM
  #289
HamiltonOHL
BulldogsFan00
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,820
vCash: 500
I say he goes to Philly or minny.... Even though leafs made it to game 7 just don't think they have what it takes... Also if bernier goes o minny, he had 1 season with backs before backs retires and bernier takes over

HamiltonOHL is offline  
Old
06-21-2013, 05:50 PM
  #290
SchennSational1022*
The Future
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Long Island New York
Country: United States
Posts: 3,281
vCash: 500
Bernier has to come to Philly.

SchennSational1022* is offline  
Old
06-21-2013, 05:52 PM
  #291
StrongIslanders90
Registered User
 
StrongIslanders90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: StrongIsland
Country: United States
Posts: 13,529
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
I'm not surprised at all. This kind of deal is just not Snow's MO. He is much more likely to find some guy tucked away in another organization's AHL team then he is to pursue a high ticket type.
agreed...Snow likes the diamonds in the rough...

Me thinks hes High on a guy like Khudobin

StrongIslanders90 is online now  
Old
06-21-2013, 05:54 PM
  #292
mack809f
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 129
vCash: 500
Luongo, Fluery and DiPietro

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
I'm not surprised at all. This kind of deal is just not Snow's MO. He is much more likely to find some guy tucked away in another organization's AHL team then he is to pursue a high ticket type.
Have been the best goalie prospects in the past 10 years. Who here wishes they traded a top prospect and 1st rounder for any of those? I agree with my fellow Isles fan. After living through Mike Milbury trading away top assets like Chara, Jokinen and Spezza, my feeling is Garth's patience is a virtue.

mack809f is offline  
Old
06-21-2013, 05:55 PM
  #293
Brad Doty
Moderator
Compliance Hero
 
Brad Doty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: I.E.
Country: United States
Posts: 10,233
vCash: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyjack13 View Post
It's not gonna happen but Edmonton maybe??
I think it's been mentioned somewhere that Lombardi was scared of trading with some parties because they didn't want him to get flipped back to the west (EDM, CGY, etc.)...so I doubt he deals directly unless the offer is too good to be true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Why would you run with Reimer and Bernier when Reimer will still more than likely be the starter and Bernier as the back up.
I think a few reasons. Could be a true tandem. Could still lean towards one starter, but Bernier could surpass Reimer at some point, sooner or later. Personally, and I like Reimer, I think Bernier would be the full-blown starter by 2014. Bernier would also be insurance; I'm not saying Reimer is injury-prone, but what if he goes down for a long time? Are you comfortable with Scrivens, or would you rather have more support? Anyway, Toronto's situation allows Bernier to ease into the role rather than being thrust right into the #1 slot with no support, so it's low risk, high potential reward, because if for whatever reason it doesn't work (injury, Reimer becoming God, etc.), you still have another good goalie to sit on.

In other words, as a player, Bernier actually makes more sense in Toronto than most other locations, it's just an assets questions--what's worth giving up?

Brad Doty is offline  
Old
06-21-2013, 05:57 PM
  #294
Frolov 6'3
Unregistered User
 
Frolov 6'3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 8,778
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CodeE View Post
You can keep telling me how great Martinez & Muzzin are, I've seen both of them play many times before and don't see either of them becoming anything other than serviceable NHL depth defensemen.
Pretty much. Its ridiculous to sell them like the next best thing.

Dude is a good and respectable poster. Yet if you hear him talk than one might think the LA Kings doesnt have any 3rd pairing defensemen and multiple blue chip prospects..


Last edited by Frolov 6'3: 06-21-2013 at 06:03 PM.
Frolov 6'3 is offline  
Old
06-21-2013, 05:59 PM
  #295
Mystifo
Lol Doodle.
 
Mystifo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: YYT
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 2,736
vCash: 500
I would not mind TOR bringing in Bernier as it would be good to see Reimer and Bernier as 1A 1B. Feel like Scrivens would be ideal going back as he is a young and solid backup goalie.

Mystifo is offline  
Old
06-21-2013, 06:01 PM
  #296
TheKingPin
Registered User
 
TheKingPin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 7,903
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nazembiggs View Post
1. I never said he could be a top 3 goalie in the league. I said he has potential to be a top 10 goalie in this league.

2. Why would he no longer have huge potential for a goalie ? Goalies usually take longer to develop so 24 is still young for a goalie. He was plenty of room to grow. Also I don't know how you can loose potential playing behind the best goalie In the world. He defiently has picked up a few things from quick these last couple of years.

3. I don't buy that whole there's no demand thing. There were reports of 10 teams interested that's 33 percent of the league. He's the best young goalie on the market and even if there's only three teams bidding for him, the demand is still high.
I never said you did but others have or have implied it.

I'm sorry you don't like supply and demand but that's kinda how things work unless there's something that someone's got to have. Then the price will be higher than market obviously.

Of course the other big thing is no matter who acquires him or if he stays with the kings. He will be a rfa and up for contract and if he has been developed to perfection as other have said then why would a team just not offer sheet him and let JB decide. It's unlikely the kings match a offer sheet that would bring and 1 and 3 as compensation so one would think that should be his sugessted max return in a trade.

TheKingPin is offline  
Old
06-21-2013, 06:05 PM
  #297
TheKingPin
Registered User
 
TheKingPin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 7,903
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie10 View Post
This is absurd. No one is saying that.

Kings fans are perfectly comfortable with how good we feel Bernier is. We're not delusional or overhyping anything. We've watched Bernier develop, we've watched him play, and we all argued for years about who was better between he and Quick. That fact that a Cup and Conn Smythe winning goaltender is even up for comparison with "back up" Bernier tells you all you need to know about how good of a goaltender Bernier is and will continue to be.

There are STILL Kings fans who think we should keep Bernier and trade Quick. Think about that for a second. Quick won a Conn Smythe trophy just last year and played out of his mind en route to another WCF appearance and there is a large majority of the fan base who still believe Bernier is the better option. He's a goaltender that was drafted and developed almost to perfection by the franchise for 6 years now and no one is comfortable giving him up for peanuts. Excuse us for valuing our players in correct regard.

No one is saying Bernier is the best goaltender in the league. Everyone agrees that he still needs to "prove" his worth as a starter. But the development track, investment, and scouting reports all point to a very, VERY good goaltender that is worth more than a 2nd round pick and some scrubby forward prospect. That's just the reality. The idea that a bidding war has even emerged over "back up" Bernier tells you all you need to know about his value. When there's zero market for an established goaltender like Luongo, regardless of the bad contract, yet teams are seemingly falling over themselves trying to trade for Bernier, that tells you all you need to know about his trade value to other teams.
I like your passion and I get what you're saying I just think the way the market is, the fact that a offer sheet is a definite option, the fact that he may get offer sheeted after a team acquires him and that you have quick already makes his worth what I believe it to be. Doesn't mean there are not teams who would over pay but I think that's what it is.

TheKingPin is offline  
Old
06-21-2013, 06:05 PM
  #298
Scott Scissons
No.1 Bust
 
Scott Scissons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 332
vCash: 500
Im assuming he only gets dealt to a team with an agreement in place. I am sure the Kings would give a window for discussion before trade.

Otherwise it is going to get pretty lulzy if a team acquired him and got offer sheeted by a 3rd team.

Scott Scissons is offline  
Old
06-21-2013, 06:05 PM
  #299
Brad Doty
Moderator
Compliance Hero
 
Brad Doty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: I.E.
Country: United States
Posts: 10,233
vCash: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKingPin View Post
I never said you did but others have or have implied it.

I'm sorry you don't like supply and demand but that's kinda how things work unless there's something that someone's got to have. Then the price will be higher than market obviously.

Of course the other big thing is no matter who acquires him or if he stays with the kings. He will be a rfa and up for contract and if he has been developed to perfection as other have said then why would a team just not offer sheet him and let JB decide. It's unlikely the kings match a offer sheet that would bring and 1 and 3 as compensation so one would think that should be his sugessted max return in a trade.
I tend to agree but I would actually suggest that would be a starting point if you're one of the teams interested in Bernier. Otherwise, you're taking 2 chances--1. you're taking a chance that he would accept a contract to play for your team as well as play for a particular price and term. 2. You're taking a chance that he will sign with you over the other teams that are interested who may beat you to the punch or offer more money, term, or some other x-factor. Trading for him now allows a team to bypass all that at least for some time.

Brad Doty is offline  
Old
06-21-2013, 06:09 PM
  #300
TheKingPin
Registered User
 
TheKingPin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 7,903
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MN14 View Post
I tend to agree but I would actually suggest that would be a starting point if you're one of the teams interested in Bernier. Otherwise, you're taking 2 chances--1. you're taking a chance that he would accept a contract to play for your team as well as play for a particular price and term. 2. You're taking a chance that he will sign with you over the other teams that are interested who may beat you to the punch or offer more money, term, or some other x-factor. Trading for him now allows a team to bypass all that at least for some time.
I agree but from my standpoint as a flyers fan he would sign with us. He wants to be a starter and he would be on a playoff team that is very young. And he wants money which we would give him.

I think they only thing trading for him gives you over offer sheeting is a million in cap savings max. That's why I'd just offer sheet him

TheKingPin is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:31 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.