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Jonathan Bernier Race Down to 3 Teams (TOR, PHI, MIN)

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06-21-2013, 07:21 PM
  #351
Face Of Bear
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Originally Posted by cnshockey View Post
So you'd be pissed acquiring a possible franchise goalie? Gotcha.
Gotta love those 25 year old career back up goalies who are still considered to have "franchise potential".

Bernier has been living off his junior hype since he was drafted. If he was really that good he would have either earned the starting job in LA, or played well enough for some team to actually pay LA enough to land his services. He has done neither so far, and any team that move assets for him is making a huge gamble with just as much (if not more) bust potential as there is boom

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06-21-2013, 07:22 PM
  #352
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Please give me recent examples of defenseman who were mediocre, bottom pairing guys at the age of 25 and then developed into much better players in the next couple years.

Here's my (partial) list of defenseman who had established themselves as "this kid could be something special" by the age of 25: Subban, Letang, Yandle, Phaneuf, Chara, Weber, Suter, Keith, Byfuglien, Doughty, Green, OEL, Seabrook, Pietrangelo, Edler, etc. etc.

If what I said is truly the dumbest thing you've ever read, you should be flush with examples of star NHL defenseman who weren't all that good at the age of 25 but suddenly became much, much better. Because I sure do have a lot of "extreme exceptions" and I'm curious to see what you believe the norm is.
Not agreeing or disagreeing but maybe Girardi? Beauchemin? Streit? Visnovsky? Rafalski? Oduya? Giordano? Mitchell? Scuderi?

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06-21-2013, 07:23 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
I remember the last possible franchise goaltender we acquired, one Mr. Gustavsson. And the possible franchise goaltender before him, Toskala. And Calder winner Andrew Raycroft, the first of a very long line of possible franchise goaltenders.

I'm very well acquainted with how important the word "possible" is.
Your concerns are very fair. And of course Bernier is a gamble. But to me, he's the safest one of all the listed above. Monster played in Europe and the European game doesn't always translate. I live near SJ, had season tix to the Sharks since my dad was a fan, and saw a lot of Toskala when he was here. I never saw him as being one of the real great goalies of this league. And Raycroft had a stinker of a year following that Calder. All Bernier has done is proven he can compete at every level. Was good enough in juniors to warrant being a 1st rounder. In Manchester, he struggled and then became the team's best player. Over his time in the NHL, he has just continued to improve. The play I saw out of him this year was fantastic. I like to try and be as least biased as possible. I see Lehner as being the next top goalie in this league. I don't know if Bernier will be as good as Lehner but I feel very strongly he will be a top 10, if not higher, goalie in this league. But again, you have every right for concern and I understand where you're coming from. His game though is a safe bet to translate to great play.

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06-21-2013, 07:23 PM
  #354
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Sounds plausible.
I agree. I like Phillips though he fills an area that we are already too deep in I think he might be adaptable to playing other roles for us could end up giving one of our own prospects a run for their money.

Clutterbuck is going to get an increase and a good one at that. He made $1.7m this past season so he will likely be expecting at least a $500k bump for next season. Not something that would be a deal breaker but something to consider.

I like the value.

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06-21-2013, 07:24 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by cnshockey View Post
So you'd be pissed acquiring a possible franchise goalie? Gotcha.
The Leafs just wouldn't be the same!


Seriously though wouldn't Leafs fans love to taunt Montreal fans with Bernier?

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06-21-2013, 07:28 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
The Leafs just wouldn't be the same!


Seriously though wouldn't Leafs fans love to taunt Montreal fans with Bernier?
I think I speak for all Leafs fans when I say we would Love to have Bernier. 2 Young goalies would be great.

However....

The Asking price is just Too high.

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06-21-2013, 07:31 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Face Of Bear View Post
Gotta love those 25 year old career back up goalies who are still considered to have "franchise potential".

Bernier has been living off his junior hype since he was drafted. If he was really that good he would have either earned the starting job in LA, or played well enough for some team to actually pay LA enough to land his services. He has done neither so far, and any team that move assets for him is making a huge gamble with just as much (if not more) bust potential as there is boom
There is so much wrong with what you have said I really don't know where to begin but I will try.

Lets start with the fact that the Kings have had the best goaltending tandem in the game for the past 3 seasons and have arguably the best goalie in the league playing in front of Bernier.

We just won the cup (Bernier was 22-23yo for that run) and then due to Quicks injuries had to rely on Bernier to help us get to the playoffs again this year where he shined by winning 9 of 11 games with a gaa of 1.88 and a save % of 922.

He has been incredible for the Kings and my point is that having the best goaltending tandem in the league is not only a big part of how we won the cup but a big part of how we got back to the WCF's this year.

There is more but that is where I would start.

So you are again flat out and completely wrong in you assessment of JB.

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06-21-2013, 07:32 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by cnshockey View Post
So you'd be pissed acquiring a possible franchise goalie? Gotcha.
I have a car with some nice stock 17" rims but the windshield is cracked. Why would i go and spend money to buy new rims when there is a far more obvious and pressing need to be addressed?

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06-21-2013, 07:36 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by northernKing View Post
Not agreeing or disagreeing but maybe Girardi? Beauchemin? Streit? Visnovsky? Rafalski? Oduya? Giordano? Mitchell? Scuderi?
Girardi was 26 when he signed his current deal that pays him $3.325 a year.

Beauch was 26 when he scored his career high in points.

Streit fits, he didn't play in the NHL until he got older. He's serviceable but I'd say he is the exception to the rule.

Visno made the NHL all-rookie team at 23 years old

Raflaski also made the NHL all-rookie team, albeit at 26 years old.

Oduya hasn't really improved all that much, IMO.

Giordano spent his mid-20s playing in Europe. At 26, on the Flames, he scored 30 points, the second highest season in his career.

Mitchell & Scuderi are stay-at-home types. Mitchell was a very important piece to the Wild at 25. Scuderi has never scored more than 16 points in a season.

Still waiting on that one Kings fan to actually back up his claim instead of running away when I provided solid evidence that nearly every top pairing defenseman establishes themselves by 25. I guess when I'm throwing out names like Lidstrom, Chara, Weber and he can only counter with names like Streit, Oduya & Scuderi, there's really nothing left to say.

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06-21-2013, 07:36 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by cnshockey View Post
So you'd be pissed acquiring a possible franchise goalie? Gotcha.
I don't think it's quite that. I mean his post doesn't really convey much beyond anger and frustration.

However, I think the sentiment here is that I don't think the Leafs should be giving up Frattin and a first. That doesn't seem like an intelligent use of their assets. Could Bernier be an upgrade on Reimer? Maybe. Reimer was solid for the Leafs last year and has the attitude that he will only get better during the off season.

I have no qualms with picking up Bernier, but again, I don't see Frattin + a first as a reasonable use of assets. The Leafs have larger holes that they need to use the assets (the first round this year) for.

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06-21-2013, 07:36 PM
  #361
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Zucker and a 2nd

OR

Biggs/Finn and a 2nd

OR

Laughton + 2nd

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06-21-2013, 07:38 PM
  #362
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Reimer's got a better SV% despite playing on a horrible team and being the same age as Bernier.

I guess Reimer's a "Franchise goalie" then, if Bernier's proclaimed to be a "Potential Franchise Goalie"


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06-21-2013, 07:38 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Alazais View Post
I don't think it's quite that. I mean his post doesn't really convey much beyond anger and frustration.

However, I think the sentiment here is that I don't think the Leafs should be giving up Frattin and a first. That doesn't seem like an intelligent use of their assets. Could Bernier be an upgrade on Reimer? Maybe. Reimer was solid for the Leafs last year and has the attitude that he will only get better during the off season.

I have no qualms with picking up Bernier, but again, I don't see Frattin + a first as a reasonable use of assets. The Leafs have larger holes that they need to use the assets (the first round this year) for.
this is what i was getting at

we have a glaring need for a #2 dman and a #1 centre, but yeah let's go spend assets to fill a need that doesn't exist.

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06-21-2013, 07:39 PM
  #364
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Scuderi has never scored more than 16 points in a season.

I'm not sure you understand Scuderi's role.

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06-21-2013, 07:39 PM
  #365
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Originally Posted by LeafsWantStanley View Post
Reimer's got a better SV% despite playing on a horrible team and being the same age as Bernier.

I guess Reimer's a "Franchise goalie" then, if Bernier's proclaimed to be a "Potential Franchise Goalie"

Honestly boggles my mind that Toronto would go after Bernier, they don't have more pressing needs?

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06-21-2013, 07:41 PM
  #366
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Honestly boggles my mind that Toronto would go after Bernier, they don't have more pressing needs?
We do, but this organization is run by goofs. Same goofs that traded away draft picks when they're rebuilding, same goofs that made us miss the playoffs for 9 years.

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06-21-2013, 07:42 PM
  #367
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Honestly boggles my mind that Toronto would go after Bernier, they don't have more pressing needs?
Riemer was a Burke guy. Burke proclaimed him the goalie of the future. This is now Nonis's team and he doesn't have the same faith in Riemer as Burke did.

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06-21-2013, 07:43 PM
  #368
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I'm not sure you understand Scuderi's role.
Wait. You mean to tell me there are ways to contribute in a hockey game, other than scoring goals?

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06-21-2013, 07:43 PM
  #369
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There is so much wrong with what you have said I really don't know where to begin but I will try.

Lets start with the fact that the Kings have had the best goaltending tandem in the game for the past 3 seasons and have arguably the best goalie in the league playing in front of Bernier.

We just won the cup (Bernier was 22-23yo for that run) and then due to Quicks injuries had to rely on Bernier to help us get to the playoffs again this year where he shined by winning 9 of 11 games with a gaa of 1.88 and a save % of 922.

He has been incredible for the Kings and my point is that having the best goaltending tandem in the league is not only a big part of how we won the cup but a big part of how we got back to the WCF's this year.

There is more but that is where I would start.

So you are again flat out and completely wrong in you assessment of JB.
Didnt didnt address one point in my assessment, but thats cool.

-Kings have not had the best goaltending tandem the last 3 years. And the quality of the Quick-Bernier tandem solely rests on Quicks shoulders

-Bernier winning "9 of 11 games" is one of millions of negligible short term samples that literally mean absolutely nothing. I'm sure every NHL player in the league could look like an all star if you pick their best 10 game stretch

Having decent numbers as the back up goalie on one of the deepest teams in the league over the last 3 years means absolutely nothing. I cant emphasize that enough. If Bernier wasnt a former 1st round pick who had a good WJC tournament, no one would even look twice at him. He was over-hyped 7 years ago, and now, 7 years later, after accomplishing nothing as a starting goalie in the NHL, he is still overhyped.

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06-21-2013, 07:43 PM
  #370
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Originally Posted by nazembiggs View Post
Riemer was a Burke guy. Burke proclaimed him the goalie of the future. This is now Nonis's team and he doesn't have the same faith in Riemer as Burke did.
Cool after you overpay for Bernier you feel like sending Reimer to LI. Plus his wife is hot.

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06-21-2013, 07:44 PM
  #371
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I'm coming to terms with the concept of trading Clutterbuck, and great if we can use him in a package for Bernier. But hell to the nah on trading Zucker for anything. Or Coyle for that matter. And if that means no Bernier to Minnesota, then that's fine with me, 100%.

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06-21-2013, 07:47 PM
  #372
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We do, but this organization is run by goofs. Same goofs that traded away draft picks when they're rebuilding, same goofs that made us miss the playoffs for 9 years.
Didn't know Nonis was here for 9 years...

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06-21-2013, 07:47 PM
  #373
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Cool after you overpay for Bernier you feel like sending Reimer to LI. Plus his wife is hot.
Frattin and a pick is not overpayment for a young goalie with potential to be something special, plus we will gain back those assets from another team in a riemer deal.

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06-21-2013, 07:48 PM
  #374
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Originally Posted by Scott Scissons View Post
Honestly boggles my mind that Toronto would go after Bernier, they don't have more pressing needs?
It annoys me. All Reimer has done in Toronto is win and give this team stability on the back end. His reward? We're looking to acquire someone else.

There is no guarantee that Bernier will be better than Reimer. The trade price imo will be too high to make it worth it. I also disagree with many that think it will be Bernier and Reimer going forward. I feel that if the Leafs get Bernier, say goodbye to Reimer.

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06-21-2013, 07:48 PM
  #375
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Cool after you overpay for Bernier you feel like sending Reimer to LI. Plus his wife is hot.
Haha, I like this idea. And you're right about the 2nd part.

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