HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Rangers Officially Introduce Alain Vigneault As Coach

View Poll Results: What do you think of the hire?
Good hire 142 66.67%
Bad hire 7 3.29%
Neutral; will wait and see... 64 30.05%
Voters: 213. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-22-2013, 01:53 AM
  #26
SA16
Two by two...
 
SA16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 2,039
vCash: 500
Regardless of how much AV contributed positively or negatively to the Canucks winning a Presidents trophy is more impressive than winning a Stanley Cup.

SA16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2013, 02:28 AM
  #27
egelband
Registered User
 
egelband's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: north finchley
Country: United States
Posts: 1,974
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I Eat Crow View Post
Torts and Vancouver media? I'll go make the popcorn
i know what you mean, but i also suspect torts will take this as somewhat of a wake-up call. for all his faults, he is not dumb...well, as far as i can tell strictly as an observer. he has got to realize that this is not boot camp and he's not Jack Ryan protecting the world.

egelband is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2013, 02:40 AM
  #28
Cresto
In the pantry
 
Cresto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,007
vCash: 500
Benoit Allaire keeps getting brought up for some odd reason in these conversations in the last 24 hrs.

Cresto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2013, 02:51 AM
  #29
Cresto
In the pantry
 
Cresto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,007
vCash: 500
With AV being closer to home and his daughters who i would imagine is a big part of his life being divorced and all, hopefully it'll be a boost for him.

It's interesting how little AV seems to know about the team. The way he keeps on repeating the fact that he doesn't know much and only ever says "good foundation" is going to be really interesting to see what he thinks of all of our players. We've all understood the the players for ourselves and partially under Torts's utilization of them so hopefully Glen lets AV do his own understanding.

Cresto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2013, 02:54 AM
  #30
Barbara Underhill
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuke
 
Barbara Underhill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montana
Country: United States
Posts: 13,144
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCresty View Post
Benoit Allaire keeps getting brought up for some odd reason in these conversations in the last 24 hrs.
He'll be kept I'm sure Hank loves him, think I just heard AV mention him as one of the staff he has met.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCresty View Post
With AV being closer to home and his daughters who i would imagine is a big part of his life being divorced and all, hopefully it'll be a boost for him.

It's interesting how little AV seems to know about the team. The way he keeps on repeating the fact that he doesn't know much and only ever says "good foundation" is going to be really interesting to see what he thinks of all of our players. We've all understood the the players for ourselves and partially under Torts's utilization of them so hopefully Glen lets AV do his own understanding.
A lot of coaches don't know a tremendous amount about teams other than their own, remember the Ottawa/Montreal series?

I do think they know more than they let on though.

Barbara Underhill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2013, 03:13 AM
  #31
Cresto
In the pantry
 
Cresto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,007
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
He'll be kept I'm sure Hank loves him, think I just heard AV mention him as one of the staff he has met.



A lot of coaches don't know a tremendous amount about teams other than their own, remember the Ottawa/Montreal series?

I do think they know more than they let on though.
Henrik loves him, ya, that's why I think it's weird they keep mentioning him Although Benoit has been victimized because Glen and AV are both trying to mention Sully as little as possible when talking about assistant coach situations. This has got to be one of the worst assistant coach situations in a while. Sullivan who's half way between here and Torts (although Gillis will definitely have his say in the AC if the owners in VAN are wanting their say in the HC) and so Sully is probably not going to work with Torts. I don't see AV keeping him. As a coach coming into a new team, the last thing you'd want is someone from the previous tenure that you don't know at all. Then there's Messier who is causing all sorts of drama with or without his involvement in it and will probably end up doing nothing again this season, either as super assistant to the GM or working with another club

----

Paul McLean was trying to mind **** Therrien, no doubt about it and it worked.
----

That's true. A part of that might be for the players' benefit when meet, greet and evaluation comes.


Last edited by Cresto: 06-22-2013 at 03:18 AM.
Cresto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2013, 03:27 AM
  #32
ProstheticConscience
Blodsvept
 
ProstheticConscience's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Canuck Nation
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,774
vCash: 500
So...we apparently traded coaches.

Uh...

Yeah.

You guys kept Messier away from us this time, right?

ProstheticConscience is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2013, 03:34 AM
  #33
Cresto
In the pantry
 
Cresto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,007
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProstheticConscience View Post
So...we apparently traded coaches.

Uh...

Yeah.

You guys kept Messier away from us this time, right?
We're sending him your way for more legal combat and arbitration to see if he's entitled to more of the Canucks fortune.

Cresto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2013, 04:07 AM
  #34
Stasis
Mad Decent
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: FrmNYC-InMTL
Posts: 1,014
vCash: 500
Apparently I go to the same school as his daughter.

Also Carey Price's gf.

I SHALL BEFRIEND THEM ALL.

Stasis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2013, 04:39 AM
  #35
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,674
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
You realize that any evidence I give you will not be quantifiable, right? For example, the Rangers struggled to break up forechecks and exit the zone against the Senators, Capitals and Devils last year. That was due to our forwards collapsing too low and not being able to provide puck support higher up along the walls. We saw the same thing happening against the Capitals and Bruins this year. Sure, you can quantify it if someone had clocked the amount of zone time spent trying to break forechecks and failing because of that specific reason. But we haven't done that, so it's a qualitative assessment based on watching the action on the ice. This was a problem last year. It was a problem this year. No sign of adaptation from the team. Either that means a.) the coach never gave the team an adjustment to help with the issue or b.) the coach did give the team the adjustment and they didn't bother executing it. Either one is a problem.

Another example would be the zone entry on the powerplay (nevermind the setup of the powerplay itself). Entering the zone on the powerplay shouldn't be a problem. Park two guys on either end of the opposing blueline. Have one player attack the blueline with speed, on whichever side of the ice feels best. Back the D up, enter the zone, pass the puck off to one of the two guys following along the boards. This isn't rocket science and it's how most of the good powerplays in the league gain zone entry. Setup follows from there. The Rangers barely ever were able to execute that. When they tried to set up that zone entry, instead the puck carrier would dump it in. The two guys at the blueline would be standing relatively still and would be unable to retrieve the puck. Or the puck carrier would attack the line with speed, but would have no support and would end up turning the puck over. This was an issue last year. It was an issue this year. Either that means a.) the coach never gave the team an adjustment to help with the issue or b.) the coach did give the team the adjustment and they didn't bother executing it. Either one is a problem.

These are qualitative assessments of the team's play supported by logical deduction on how it reflects on the coach. These are system issues that have little to do with the talent on the team. Stop looking for quantifiables. Watch the game. Use reason.
That was a well-thought out post until the little bit of snwrkiness at the end.

One point:

Gaining the zone is more of an individual talent thing than a strategy. It is why guys like Kovalev were so valuable. When someone can skate like that and carry the puck like that, the other team is forced onto their heels, allowing a player like that to gain the offensive zone. Talented puck carriers are sorely lacking on this team. There are a couple of decent ones, but it is a team weakness.

Again, since you and everyone else saw a strategical weakness, don't you think Torts saw it? It definitely makes a difference whether or not Torts screwed up or the players did becaus we are discussing terminating the coach.

I will try and watch games and use reason going forward so I can keep pace with the more knowledgeable posters.

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2013, 05:06 AM
  #36
I Eat Crow
Fear The Mullet
 
I Eat Crow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 6,112
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
That was a well-thought out post until the little bit of snwrkiness at the end.

One point:

Gaining the zone is more of an individual talent thing than a strategy. It is why guys like Kovalev were so valuable. When someone can skate like that and carry the puck like that, the other team is forced onto their heels, allowing a player like that to gain the offensive zone. Talented puck carriers are sorely lacking on this team. There are a couple of decent ones, but it is a team weakness.

Again, since you and everyone else saw a strategical weakness, don't you think Torts saw it? It definitely makes a difference whether or not Torts screwed up or the players did becaus we are discussing terminating the coach.

I will try and watch games and use reason going forward so I can keep pace with the more knowledgeable posters.
Gomez for 3rd line center

You laugh, but he's the best I've seen at skating through the neutral zone and gaining the rival defensive zone. Problem with him is that he looks like a deer in the headlights with what to do with the puck once he gets in the offensive zone.

Zuccarello, Nash, and Brassard are the best at gaining the opposing zone. I do think they'll be asked to carry the puck more under AV.

I Eat Crow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2013, 06:59 AM
  #37
Mr Atoz*
I hid the Atavachron
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 2,915
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I think he was the best available option. Team needed a change, and AV might be a breath of fresh air for the boys.

I think it became clear after Torts was fired how few available options there really were.

Mr Atoz* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2013, 07:07 AM
  #38
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 48,297
vCash: 500
Congratulations. You've got yourself a great coach. When a guy is fired but that's mostly attributed to just a change of scenery and not necessarily because he's awful, you know you got yourself a good one.

Whitesnake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2013, 07:18 AM
  #39
Fire Sather
Play Like a Pug
 
Fire Sather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 19,898
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Fire Sather
Quote:
Originally Posted by SA16 View Post
Regardless of how much AV contributed positively or negatively to the Canucks winning a Presidents trophy is more impressive than winning a Stanley Cup.
wut.

Fire Sather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2013, 07:37 AM
  #40
Synergy27
Registered User
 
Synergy27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Country: United States
Posts: 4,628
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SA16 View Post
Regardless of how much AV contributed positively or negatively to the Canucks winning a Presidents trophy is more impressive than winning a Stanley Cup.

You'll probably get ripped for this, but I'd like you to know that I wholeheartedly agree. Playoffs in sports are exciting, but they don't always reward the best team.

Synergy27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2013, 08:05 AM
  #41
pld459666
Registered User
 
pld459666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Danbury, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 16,478
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BB v2 0 View Post
Apparently, AV greatly impressed Slats AND Dolan in his interviews with them, so if he can leave that big of an impact on those two, I'm glad they snatched him up when they had the chance. I think Dallas offering him the job really forced Sather's hand, here, and I think he made the right move.
Impressing Sather and Dolan who happen to be absolute idiots both, doesn't really say much to me.

pld459666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2013, 08:08 AM
  #42
Vitto79
Registered User
 
Vitto79's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sarnia
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,564
vCash: 500
Torts in Vancouver, so funny..........I think he will do well there but Rangers needed a change. AV is a solid move

Vitto79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2013, 08:20 AM
  #43
Fitzy
All Is Well
 
Fitzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,925
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SA16 View Post
Regardless of how much AV contributed positively or negatively to the Canucks winning a Presidents trophy is more impressive than winning a Stanley Cup.
Torts came 2 and 3 points away from winning the president's trophy, along with his cup.

Fitzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2013, 08:37 AM
  #44
Rust Heisenberg
Registered User
 
Rust Heisenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,886
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Feel cautiously pessimistic on this one.
Classify this under "shocker".

Rust Heisenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2013, 08:43 AM
  #45
Rust Heisenberg
Registered User
 
Rust Heisenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,886
vCash: 500
We need more offense infused. Just a tiny bit more. Nothing drastic like another Nash.

See what Del Zotto can fetch. Kick the tires on Briere or Lecaviere once both are bought out. Anything more than 1 year 1.5 mill for either is too much and you can let the next team make the mistake of signing them.

Just need a well rounded team. I think we have a good coach in place.

Rust Heisenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2013, 08:46 AM
  #46
Fire Sather
Play Like a Pug
 
Fire Sather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 19,898
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Fire Sather
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synergy27 View Post
You'll probably get ripped for this, but I'd like you to know that I wholeheartedly agree. Playoffs in sports are exciting, but they don't always reward the best team.
Theres some luck involved.. like in anything.. but hockey isn't like baseball where the worst team in the league could win the world series if they were plopped into the playoffs and won a few short series.

Fire Sather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2013, 08:48 AM
  #47
Fire Sather
Play Like a Pug
 
Fire Sather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 19,898
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Fire Sather
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Torts came 2 and 3 points away from winning the president's trophy, along with his cup.
yeah, I couldn't careless about the Presidents trophy.. Torts got us the top seed in the East.. he couldn't have put us in a better position.

Fire Sather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2013, 08:53 AM
  #48
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 11,826
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
That was a well-thought out post until the little bit of snwrkiness at the end.

One point:

Gaining the zone is more of an individual talent thing than a strategy. It is why guys like Kovalev were so valuable. When someone can skate like that and carry the puck like that, the other team is forced onto their heels, allowing a player like that to gain the offensive zone. Talented puck carriers are sorely lacking on this team. There are a couple of decent ones, but it is a team weakness.

Again, since you and everyone else saw a strategical weakness, don't you think Torts saw it? It definitely makes a difference whether or not Torts screwed up or the players did becaus we are discussing terminating the coach.

I will try and watch games and use reason going forward so I can keep pace with the more knowledgeable posters.
Wasn't intended to be snarky.

Do I think Tortorella saw it? Maybe. Whether he saw it or not wasnt the only issue. It's only partially about recognition. It's also about addressing issues effectively. One of the two didn't happen and it doesn't matter to me much which one it really was.

Gaining the zone is definitely about skill, but it's also about strategy and making the right choices. If your guys are making the wrong choices, then you need to drill the right ones into them. If they make the right choices, but it still isn't effective, then you need to adjust your strategy. Both fall to the coach. Again, doesn't matter much to me which one was the problem. Both speak to the coach's effectiveness.

Tawnos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2013, 09:16 AM
  #49
alkurtz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mahopac, NY
Posts: 894
vCash: 500
Over the last 10 days or so I've spent a lot of car time listening to NHL radio on XM. Almost every guest (GMs, writers, players, front office people, etc) was asked about AV and how he would fit with the Rangers. Without exception they all used the adjectives to describe him: professional, accomplished, competent, able. Those were the qualities that came across during yesterday's conference.

If you look at the top coaches in the league today particularly the two guys in the Cup finals, you can use the same words to describe them. Every coach in the league is a good tactician or would not have reached this level. Some or a bit better than others, but all are pretty much the same. All handle the bench and in game adjustments well: again some better than others.

My point is this: sometimes I feel that it is the off ice stuff, the group dynamics that a coach creates, that is utmost importance: the stuff that we don't see but can only intuit from watching, listening, and thinking.

At the end, this is what did Torts in. Yes, his strategy and tactics drove us crazy but his strategy and tactics can win in this league. Even his hard ass personality can win in this league: every coaching philosophy and personality can both win and lose. Coaching is very much an art form and in many ways success cannot be quantified. Every tactic and strategy and personality can succeed or fail.

Tort's problem was that he became bigger than the team. Everything revolved around him rather than the players. He became the story. He was like a dictator run amok. Unchecked, he ended up undermining and negatively impacting his own team.

We can complain about our lousy power play, our shot-blocking to a fault, our shackling of our best offensive talent and so on all we want. No matter what Sather says (at times during the presser I thought he was incoherent) about us becoming more offensive minded (something I agree with), I do not believe it was this that did Torts in. Torts saw a team with its strength being in goal and in a young D corps and he ran with it, certainly to a fault.

But it wasn't strategy, philosophy, or tactics that did him in. It was personality.

I don't think we will have this problem with AV. Whether we become an elite team and seriously challenge for the Cup over the next few years cannot be predicted and depends on so many factors (injuries, growth of young players, the rise and fall of other teams, etc), but I don't think that AV's personality and philosophy will be an issue.

He seem like the consummate professional.

alkurtz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2013, 09:30 AM
  #50
silverfish
Mr. Glass
 
silverfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Standing on a Train
Country: United States
Posts: 15,395
vCash: 500
Just watched the press conference. Saying all the right things, clearly more media friendly.

Still have to wait to watch the on-ice product. AV was my third choice to coach this team, so I'm staying hesitant.

silverfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:38 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.