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Trading Up III: Does Anyone Have Incriminating Photos Of Burnaby Joe?

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Old
06-22-2013, 01:14 PM
  #26
La Cosa Nostra
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Originally Posted by Lloydchristmas138 View Post
Would you do #8 and #16 for #5 and #35? Would Carolina consider?
Unless Barkov or Drouin are there at #5 I would not do that.Yeah we move up 3 spots with our 1st pick but then we are moving down 19 spots.I think the gap going from 8 to 5 is much smaller then 16 to 35.

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06-22-2013, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Unless Barkov or Drouin are there at #5 I would not do that.Yeah we move up 3 spots with our 1st pick but then we are moving down 19 spots.I think the gap going from 8 to 5 is much smaller then 16 to 35.
I more or less agree. Take "at worst" Ristolainen/Horvat and you have some really strong options at 16.

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06-22-2013, 01:28 PM
  #28
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I agree that Carolina probably wants to win sooner rather than later, but they have quite a few holes to fill. Justin Faulk is pretty much their only D-man worth a damn, Murphy is looking like a question mark still similar to Ryan Ellis and Pitkanen carries crutches with him everywhere. Their bottom 6 and depth players could use a stiff jolt, players like Dalpe, Bowman, and Rask aren't ideal 3rd liners.

I don't think it would be worth trading Sekera/Ehroff/McNabb/McCabe/Weber to move up, but something like #8, Tropp/Catenacci, and Ruhwedel could be beneficial for both teams. Carolina is still in position to draft Nurse/Nichuskin/Ristolainen and improve their depth on offense and defense.

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06-22-2013, 01:28 PM
  #29
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Lindholm produced at a rate in the SEL that no Swedish-born forward has in his draft year since Nick Backstrom. I don't think a lack of offensive upside is a viable knock on him.
That doesn't necessarily mean all that much. Everyone knows he's a good offensive player, the question is whether he's likely to be an elite offensive player (e.g. "first line numbers") in the NHL and the fact he produced well over a season in the SEL doesn't really speak much to that. It's extremely conceivable that he will put up "second line" offensive production. That's perfectly fine by me and I'd select him with 0 qualms at #8 if we have the good fortune to have the opportunity. If we drafted #5, I'd select him #5 with 0 qualms, too.

He may end up an elite offensive player, I just don't think that's clear at this point. With regards to the comment you were responding to (IIRC) then yes, that he was compared to Girgensons and Larsson is a bit silly because he certainly shows more offensive potential than they do.

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06-22-2013, 01:30 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Unless Barkov or Drouin are there at #5 I would not do that.Yeah we move up 3 spots with our 1st pick but then we are moving down 19 spots.I think the gap going from 8 to 5 is much smaller then 16 to 35.
I'd consider it, if they have a guy they want and he's there at 5 I wouldnt want to risk their guy being gone at 8, maybe we could squeeze another 3rd out of it too

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06-22-2013, 01:32 PM
  #31
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Patrice Bergeron isn't an elite offensive player. Who cares? He has an elite all around game. That's what we need. If the difference between Ristolainin and Lindholm is the difference between Alzner and Bergeron, I do everything in my power to get Lindholm, even though Ristolainin can be a really good player in his own way.

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06-22-2013, 01:35 PM
  #32
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I'd do Myers straight up for the #5 pick and I wouldn't think twice about it. I guess I'm a pessimist regarding Myers. If we have 3 first rounders, one can be used to draft a defenseman.

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06-22-2013, 01:39 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Patrice Bergeron isn't an elite offensive player. Who cares? He has an elite all around game. That's what we need. If the difference between Ristolainin and Lindholm is the difference between Alzner and Bergeron, I do everything in my power to get Lindholm, even though Ristolainin can be a really good player in his own way.
The point was to discuss whether or not he'll be an elite offensive player. It doesn't not matter whether or not a player will be an elite offensive player just because you can be a great or elite player without being elite offensively.

I don't see anyone talking about taking Ristolainen over Lindholm anyhow, though I think Jame may have suggested it at one point weeks ago.

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06-22-2013, 01:42 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
The point was to discuss whether or not he'll be an elite offensive player. It doesn't not matter whether or not a player will be an elite offensive player just because you can be a great or elite player without being elite offensively.

I don't see anyone talking about taking Ristolainen over Lindholm anyhow, though I think Jame may have suggested it at one point weeks ago.
But is it worth doing what it takes to ensure you get Lindholm, or are we content getting Ristolainin? That was my point.

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06-22-2013, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by VaporTrail View Post
You guys that want to trade Myers are out of your minds.
haha I agree

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06-22-2013, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Patrice Bergeron isn't an elite offensive player. Who cares? He has an elite all around game. That's what we need. If the difference between Ristolainin and Lindholm is the difference between Alzner and Bergeron, I do everything in my power to get Lindholm, even though Ristolainin can be a really good player in his own way.
Girgensons?

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06-22-2013, 02:29 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
But is it worth doing what it takes to ensure you get Lindholm, or are we content getting Ristolainin? That was my point.
Ah, in that case I say probably not, only because of what I imagine it would cost to move up. If it's a reasonable cost then I bite the bullet even though I think Ristolainen could really end up being a top-pairing guy.

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06-22-2013, 02:38 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by VaporTrail View Post
You guys that want to trade Myers are out of your minds.
Why? I'm of the belief that Myers will never reach the potential we all thought he would. Getting the #5 pick would allow us to potentially get that #1C that we've desperately needed since Briere jetted. I see it as a good trade-off, and a risk I'm willing to take.

Lindholm will have a better career than Myers.

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06-22-2013, 02:55 PM
  #39
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Why? I'm of the belief that Myers will never reach the potential we all thought he would. Getting the #5 pick would allow us to potentially get that #1C that we've desperately needed since Briere jetted. I see it as a good trade-off, and a risk I'm willing to take.

Lindholm will have a better career than Myers.
He will? LOL this fanbase would of been throwing Chara to the curb at age 23.

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06-22-2013, 03:32 PM
  #40
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He will? LOL this fanbase would of been throwing Chara to the curb at age 23.
I'd move him to get to#1 but not in a deal to move up 3 spots when the top 4 big names are surely off the board.

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06-22-2013, 03:53 PM
  #41
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Darcy Regier has said their are 6 elite players available, MacKinnon, Jones, Barkov and Drouin are almost assured to be in that group. The other two could potentially be Lindholm, Monahan, Nichushkin. Seeing as Devine stated that Nichushkin plays like a Malkin and said in his interview that after Nichushkin you would have Lindholm that makes me think that the Sabres elite 6 are

MacKinnon
Jones
Drouin
Barkov
Nichushkin
Lindholm

If Lindholm and Nichushkin are on that list then Monahan should be there as well. If they truly believe these are the top 6 then you could either stay at 8 and hope Nichushkin is there or move up to 5 and have your pick between Lindholm, Nichushkin and even Monahan. Carolina trading out of that pick seems like a strong possibility. It probably takes 8 + 52 + LAs 2014 2nd to make Carolina budge, they want a top 4 Dman in return but won't get it.


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06-22-2013, 03:55 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Selanne00008 View Post
I'd move him to get to#1 but not in a deal to move up 3 spots when the top 4 big names are surely off the board.
Yeah obviously moving Myers in a deal that only moves us up 3 spots is ********. However I believe what was proposed was Myers for the 5th overall straight up. I personally make that deal without hesitation; I don't think Carolina would do it though at least not straight up Buffalo would likely have to add.

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06-22-2013, 04:15 PM
  #43
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I'd only trade myers for McKinnon. Period.

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Old
06-22-2013, 04:34 PM
  #44
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I'd only trade myers for MacKinnon. Period.
I'd add Barkov too, and agree.

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Old
06-22-2013, 05:00 PM
  #45
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it makes no sense to gut the system to get a player, unless he is truly elite.

The draft appears to have 3 truly elite players, Jones, MacKinnon and Drouin
then a strong second tier which might be elite: Barkov, Nichushkin and Lindholm.

We have a some awfu strong looking kids in the system:
Grigorenko, Larsson, Girgensons, Armia, Tropp, Foligno, McCabe, McNabb and Pysyk
Which of these guys do we not want to try to build around? Grigs and Armia have tons of skill, Larsson is strong at both ends, Tropp, Girgs and McCabe are all work ethic guys character guys and Pysky is a puck mover and potential PP QB and McNabb has size and strength with solid feet.

Therefore if we can't get any of those elite 6 player I don't want to see these guys moved to just move up.

I like : Monahan or Wennberg at #8
and
At #16: Zadorov, Burakowsky, Mantha or Ristolainen

hoping for an interesting day and I'm sure they'll be surprises.

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06-22-2013, 05:05 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by krt88 View Post
it makes no sense to gut the system to get a player, unless he is truly elite.

The draft appears to have 3 truly elite players, Jones, MacKinnon and Drouin
then a strong second tier which might be elite: Barkov, Nichushkin and Lindholm.

We have a some awfu strong looking kids in the system:
Grigorenko, Larsson, Girgensons, Armia, Tropp, Foligno, McCabe, McNabb and Pysyk

Therefore if we can't get any of those elite 6 player who the best fit?

I like : Monahan or Wennberg at #8
and
At #16: Zadorov, Burakowsky, Mantha or Ristolainen

hoping for an interesting day and I'm sure they'll be surprises.
I just don't see Monahan being there at #8. Less likely than Lindholm, imo. He's the kind of strong, hard-working two-way good ol' Canadian boy center that many in the NA hockey world cream their pants over. The kind of guy who gets selected over better/more talented players (not saying that'd be the case as he is a very talented prospect).

I also don't see much chance of Ristolainen falling to #16, but with any luck Zadorov would. I'd love to nab him there, because he could be a team's Seabrook-esque type player but with intriguing offensive upside.

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06-22-2013, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by is the answer jesus View Post
Yeah obviously moving Myers in a deal that only moves us up 3 spots is ********. However I believe what was proposed was Myers for the 5th overall straight up. I personally make that deal without hesitation; I don't think Carolina would do it though at least not straight up Buffalo would likely have to add.
Man I've lost all faith in Myers. After his calder year I thought we had our franchise D all locked up and wouldn't even trade him for 1st overall. His play was absolutely UNREAL. Now...I would make that trade easily. I think we would even have to add to Myers to get the 5th overall, maybe a 2nd round pick or something. 5th, 8th, 16th pick in this draft would make this a quick rebuild.

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06-22-2013, 05:20 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
Darcy Regier has said their are 6 elite players available, MacKinnon, Jones, Barkov and Drouin are almost assured to be in that group. The other two could potentially be Lindholm, Monahan, Nichushkin. Seeing as Devine stated that Nichushkin plays like a Malkin and said in his interview that after Nichushkin you would have Lindholm that makes me think that the Sabres elite 6 are

MacKinnon
Jones
Drouin
Barkov
Nichushkin
Lindholm

If Lindholm and Nichushkin are on that list then Monahan should be there as well. If they truly believe these are the top 6 then you could either stay at 8 and hope Nichushkin is there or move up to 5 and have your pick between Lindholm, Nichushkin and even Monahan. Carolina trading out of that pick seems like a strong possibility. It probably takes 8 + 52 + LAs 2014 2nd to make Carolina budge, they want a top 4 Dman in return but won't get it.
Director of Central Scouting named Nurse as one of 5 elite players. Darcy sounded surprised and said he thought there were 6. People aren't giving Nurse the credit he deserves around here. Don't be surprised at all if he is our target.

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06-22-2013, 05:42 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Director of Central Scouting named Nurse as one of 5 elite players. Darcy sounded surprised and said he thought there were 6. People aren't giving Nurse the credit he deserves around here. Don't be surprised at all if he is our target.
Many are focused heavily on forwards. By #8, we could see the start of more balance between forward selections and defense since Ristolainen, Nurse, and even Zadorov are in that tier of #8-16 evals for many.

There is no issue going D at #8. None at all.

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06-22-2013, 05:44 PM
  #50
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Man I've lost all faith in Myers. After his calder year I thought we had our franchise D all locked up and wouldn't even trade him for 1st overall. His play was absolutely UNREAL. Now...I would make that trade easily. I think we would even have to add to Myers to get the 5th overall, maybe a 2nd round pick or something. 5th, 8th, 16th pick in this draft would make this a quick rebuild.
Let's have some perspective. I'm all open to trading Myers+ for a sure thing elite/franchise player. That's all I'm open to trading Myers for. He's had some bad stretches but people seem to ignore that in the same seasons he turns it around and puts together strong stretches. He's dealt with some injuries the past two years. He's 23. He's about to be under the wing of his second NHL coach. The organization just paid him, as an front-end investment in his long-term contract, TWELVE MILLION DOLLARS. He very deservedly won the Calder. He's 6'8" and skates well for an NHLer of any size.

There's no reason not to see what kind of growth and consistency he can bring to his game. Well, there's one reason: if you use him as part of a package to get a sure thing with an equal or higher ceiling. There's no reason to trade him for a 'safer' player with a lower potential or a guy with similar potential and a similar question mark regarding reaching that potential. We aren't there yet. He's still been a deserving top 4 defenseman on this team in each of his seasons.


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