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Old
06-21-2013, 02:42 PM
  #101
Teufelsdreck
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Price is bigger than Fleury and technically more sound as well. Fleury was lucky to be drafted by Pittsburgh and a lot of other teams were lucky The Pens used their 2003 #1 overall pick on him, which had a cascading effect on all the other first round picks. I can't think of any team that would regret not having been able to draft him.

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06-21-2013, 03:07 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by David Thicke View Post
Wrong again! I am not a sports writer and don't intend on being one. This is part-time only. Sorry, if I seemed to hurt your feelings with my comments on PK Subban but I call it like I see it. No, I don't listen to the B.S. that all the analysts have to say about P.K Subban or any other player for that matter. I'll trust my own instincts especially after playing, coaching and refereeing for 35+ years in minor hockey and being a Habs fan for 46 years. I have seen live in action a lot of great hockey players and played with and coached quite a few myself. How about you?
I am sorry, but I just made a full stop reading that.

Then what are you? Why should we bother going on HockeyFuture News? What appeal do you have beyond representing the hosts of this forum?

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06-21-2013, 03:49 PM
  #103
E = CH²
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Sportwriter don't know everything if the Norris was picked by the GMs and Coaches there would be a far different list.
Coaches picked their winners 3/4 of the way through and Subban was the Norris winner in the east according to them.

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06-21-2013, 03:50 PM
  #104
JLP
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What wheeling and dealing might it take to draft Frederik Gauthier?

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06-21-2013, 08:30 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Price is bigger than Fleury and technically more sound as well. Fleury was lucky to be drafted by Pittsburgh and a lot of other teams were lucky The Pens used their 2003 #1 overall pick on him, which had a cascading effect on all the other first round picks. I can't think of any team that would regret not having been able to draft him.
The 2003 draft is depressing. Stars every which way and only a few teams didn't pick one. AK would normally not be a bad pick at #10, especially if they had been able to get him to focus, and there were worse picks (Fleury, Zherdev maybe, Jessiman, Nilsson, Fehr, Pouliot...) but so many major talents still on the board at that point.

Even Lapierre, great pick, but one ahead of David Backes...

Looking back, though, Maybe 2 teams in the top ten did well, Carolina and Nashville. Lots of good picks but Carter, Parise, Getzlaf, Kesler, Richards, Bergeron, Eriksson, Weber, came later. Could have been better, could have been worse.

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06-21-2013, 09:03 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
What wheeling and dealing might it take to draft Frederik Gauthier?
25th & 36th for the 17th? The Sens don't have any 2nd round picks...

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06-21-2013, 09:54 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
I am sorry, but I just made a full stop reading that.

Then what are you? Why should we bother going on HockeyFuture News? What appeal do you have beyond representing the hosts of this forum?
First you should have read the whole post. He made his point very clear. But you stopped at the first sentence.

Second, I think you are very harsh and unjust.
If HF has no interest for you, just don't read it.

I do understand that some may want more for this article.
But this has gone overboard.

As far as I can, HF is doing a pretty good job at feeding us with info about prospects.
Who is clearly better: TSN? RDS? ESPN? THN? THW?
As far as I can see, HockeyFuture is a very good source of information, not perfect but can complement very well the deck.
There is a lot of info about prospects that I can not find in other sites.

At this point my question would be the following:
  • Are you publishing on other sites and taking the opportunity to attack the opponent?
  • Are you just another fellow who does nothing except attacking others?

To resume you are just unfair.

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Old
06-22-2013, 02:19 AM
  #108
David Thicke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
I am sorry, but I just made a full stop reading that.

Then what are you? Why should we bother going on HockeyFuture News? What appeal do you have beyond representing the hosts of this forum?
Why don't you just read fully, not part of a post and then try commenting. I stated my experience and my opinion so what's yours? If you want to pick at one word in a sentence then I can't help you.

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06-22-2013, 02:27 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Coaches picked their winners 3/4 of the way through and Subban was the Norris winner in the east according to them.
Where can I find this information? I would love to read it! I always want to know what the Coaches and GMs think about players in the NHL. Thanks.

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06-22-2013, 02:53 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
25th & 36th for the 17th? The Sens don't have any 2nd round picks...
25th + 36th could most likely get us the no15 pick, horvat bro. HORVAT
if any good players are still around we could always trade diaz for a late 1st rounder(morin, rychel, erne, morissey, mantha maybe? who knows)/early 2nd


Last edited by TT1: 06-22-2013 at 04:33 AM.
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06-22-2013, 03:51 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by aaa View Post
I saw that article on RDS about Price and MAF and found it to be an unfair comparison. Fleury has a virtual all-star team in front of him and choked. Price didn't carry the team on his shoulders but it was far from a choke job.The team over achieved all season and lost key players in the play-offs.
THIS. People seem to confuse Price needing to be better with Price actually holding us back. Good lord.

If we actually put a contender in front of him (don't think we're that far off) and he can't deliver then we can pounce on him. Unfortunately it seems all or nothing when it comes to Price. If he's not the sole reason we win all the time, he becomes a joke of a goalie in half our fanbase's eyes.

He let in soft goals for sure but our D needs to be better and bigger. Tinordi's maturation will help with that but we still need another solid rugged stay at home type.

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06-22-2013, 04:11 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by 24get View Post
First you should have read the whole post. He made his point very clear. But you stopped at the first sentence.
No, I got his professional/hockey referrals all right. But having experienced hockey doesn't a writer makes you, you know?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 24get View Post
Second, I think you are very harsh and unjust.
If HF has no interest for you, just don't read it.

I do understand that some may want more for this article.
But this has gone overboard.
It went overboard when the writer lashed out at a fan here just because he was a moderator voicing casually his opinion. There was no reason to be so rude to Overlords, and he adopted a passive-aggressive tone for most of his posts here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 24get View Post
As far as I can, HF is doing a pretty good job at feeding us with info about prospects.
Who is clearly better: TSN? RDS? ESPN? THN? THW?
As far as I can see, HockeyFuture is a very good source of information, not perfect but can complement very well the deck.
There is a lot of info about prospects that I can not find in other sites.
There is. No question about it; I love HockeyFuture's prospect database. They are at their strongest when they assess team's current prospect pools.

But this article wasn't that. This article was merely a rehash of last season + a summary of one of their prospect page, which they pulled out of a hat (and don't give me: "oh, but it was following a draft simulation", yhea, like draft simulations ever get close to reality past the 4 first picks). There was substantial to learn from it; just a page made to bait hits from forum members.

Hell, Thicke himself acknowledge that the formal is pre-set by the site's editor. Whether the fault should be attributed to him or the format (I think it's the latter, since Thicke has demonstrated very good argumentative skills) doesn't change the fact that it's a useless article.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 24get View Post
At this point my question would be the following:
  • Are you publishing on other sites and taking the opportunity to attack the opponent?
  • Are you just another fellow who does nothing except attacking others?
1) No. Well, I doubt political writings is any form of opposition to Hockey Future.
2) Neither. I occasionally criticize other posters, but I prefer to prop up those who write good posts. And I rarely take the time to bash on sportswriters (or wannabes). It's just that this one happened because I thought criticism of the article was fair, and the passive/aggressive lash out was definitely out of place.

I may think Thicke's opinion of Subban is very wrong, but I'm not criticizing him about that. I am criticizing the form he used to write about feedbacks he received, I am criticizing the format he used to write his bloody useless article.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 24get View Post
To resume you are just unfair.
Am I? Do you think Overlord deserved a "shut up, you are a moderator and should not speak ill of Hockey News's article"? Do you feel it was necessary to have a last season recap in the article?


Quote:
Originally Posted by David Thicke View Post
Why don't you just read fully, not part of a post and then try commenting. I stated my experience and my opinion so what's yours? If you want to pick at one word in a sentence then I can't help you.
I did read whole of your post, and that still does not answer my question. You know not anyone can just pick up a keyboard and start writing? Why claim you have no "desire to become a sportswriter" as a form of defense, when you are clearly writing some sports article using your past credentials? At least, I suspect you aren't just banging up stuff randomly with your keyboard.

Also, I still can't go past the reaction you gave for the feedback you got. Which was:

SHUT UP. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO VOICE AN OPINION AGAINST US.

You acted pettily and defensive from the get-go. Poor behavior following a poor article.

But hey, it's all good. I can say the most aggressive things to you and come out all right because I insert this smiley at the end!!


Right?

RIGHT?!


Last edited by PricePkPatch: 06-22-2013 at 04:40 AM.
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Old
06-22-2013, 04:23 AM
  #113
TT1
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
No, I got his professional/hockey referrals all right. But having experienced hockey doesn't a writer makes you, you know?



It went overboard when the writer lashed out at a fan here just because he was a moderator voicing casually his opinion. There was no reason to be so rude to Overlords, and he adopted a passive-aggressive tone for most of his posts here.



There is. No question about it; I love HockeyFuture's prospect database. They are at their strongest when they assess team's current prospect pools.

But this article wasn't that. This article was merely a rehash of last season + a summary of one of their prospect page, which they pulled out of a hat (and don't give me: "oh, but it was following a draft simulation", yhea, like draft simulations ever get close to reality past the 4 first picks). There was substantial to learn from it; just a page made to bait hits from forum members.

Hell, TT1 himself acknowledge that the formal is pre-set by the site's editor. Whether the fault should be attributed to him or the format (I think it's the latter, since TT1 has demonstrated very good argumentative skills) doesn't change the fact that it's a useless article.



1) No. Well, I doubt political writings is any form of opposition to Hockey Future.
2) Neither. I occasionally criticize other posters, but I prefer to prop up those who write good posts. And I rarely take the time to bash on sportswriters (or wannabes). It's just that this one happened because I thought criticism of the article was fair, and the passive/aggressive lash out was definitely out of place.

I may think TT1's opinion of Subban is very wrong, but I'm not criticizing him about that. I am criticizing the form he used to write about feedbacks he received, I am criticizing the format he used to write his bloody useless article.



Am I? Do you think Overlord deserved a "shut up, you are a moderator and should not speak ill of Hockey News's article"? Do you feel it was necessary to have a last season recap in the article?




I did read whole of your post, and that still does not answer my question. You know not anyone can just pick up a keyboard and start writing? Why claim you have no "desire to become a sportswriter" as a form of defense, when you are clearly writing some sports article using your past credentials? At least, I suspect you aren't just banging up stuff randomly with your keyboard.

Also, I still can't go past the reaction you gave for the feedback you got. Which was:

SHUT UP. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO VOICE AN OPINION AGAINST US.

You acted pettily and defensive from the get-go. Poor behavior following a poor article.

But hey, it's all good. I can say the most aggressive things to you and come out all right because I insert this smiley at the end!!


Right?

RIGHT?!
seems like you've caught a serious case of horvat-itis, look at that sexy stride


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Old
06-22-2013, 04:38 AM
  #114
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If we're lucky, this draft will net us an effective second line forward and second pairing man by the start if the 2017-2018 season.

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Old
06-22-2013, 04:39 AM
  #115
PricePkPatch
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Originally Posted by TT1 View Post
seems like you've caught a serious case of horvat-itis, look at that sexy stride
Oh man, I think I confused TT1 with the writer..

Sorry man


Let me go through an edit, kk?

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06-22-2013, 10:01 AM
  #116
Teufelsdreck
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
If we're lucky, this draft will net us an effective second line forward and second pairing man by the start if the 2017-2018 season.
How did you come up with that time frame? Why would their development take so long? I don't dismiss your post as semi-facetious. It betrays your underlying frustration at not seeing MB adopt your 'surgical tank' strategy of trading veterans to get high draft picks (which IMO was unlikely as well as undesirable). Now consider the possibility that this draft will yield three or four regulars (at various positions) well before 2017. Would that shake your conviction that you know best? MB bears the responsibility and has the professional qualifications and contacts with 29 other GMs, not you. I for one am fairly content with a #25. three second rounders, and two thirds, although I wouldn't mind dealing some of those choices to move higher in the first round.

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06-22-2013, 10:09 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
How did you come up with that time frame? Why would their development take so long? I don't dismiss your post as semi-facetious. It betrays your underlying frustration at not seeing MB adopt your 'surgical tank' strategy of trading veterans to get high draft picks (which IMO was unlikely as well as undesirable). Now consider the possibility that this draft will yield three or four regulars (at various positions) well before 2017. Would that shake your conviction that you know best? MB bears the responsibility and has the professional qualifications and contacts with 29 other GMs, not you. I for one am fairly content with a #25. three second rounders, and two thirds, although I wouldn't mind dealing some of those choices to move higher in the first round.
Teufel,

I wrote a long mea culpa explaining why i was wrong about the tank. I am sorry you did not see it, it is in one of the taking threads, the last or second last one.

Tinordi, a solid pick, was drafted in 2010. He will be effective in 2013-2014, maybe. Beaulieu might be a year faster, and Leblanc a year slower.

Mcdonagh and Pacioretty were very good 2007 picks. They became effective around 2010-2011. Lars Eller, a good player from the same draft, took another year.


That is how long good picks take.


Last edited by DAChampion: 06-22-2013 at 10:26 AM.
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Old
06-22-2013, 10:22 AM
  #118
PricePkPatch
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Teufel,

I wrote a long mea culpa explaining why i was wrong about the tank. I am sorry you did not see it, it is in one of the taking threads, the last or second last one.

Tinordi, a solid pick, was drafted in 2010. He will be effective in 2013-2014, maybe. Beaulieu might be a year faster, and Leblanc a year slower.

Mcdonagh and Pacioretty were very good 2007 picks. They became effective around 2010-2011. Lars Eller, a good player from the same draft, took another year.


That is how long good picks take.
Barring exceptional talent (Galchenyuk), I agree with you. Hell, even Subban took about 3 years. 3-4 is the time frame to expect for all non-slamdunk draft picks.

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06-22-2013, 01:11 PM
  #119
David Thicke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
No, I got his professional/hockey referrals all right. But having experienced hockey doesn't a writer makes you, you know?



It went overboard when the writer lashed out at a fan here just because he was a moderator voicing casually his opinion. There was no reason to be so rude to Overlords, and he adopted a passive-aggressive tone for most of his posts here.



There is. No question about it; I love HockeyFuture's prospect database. They are at their strongest when they assess team's current prospect pools.

But this article wasn't that. This article was merely a rehash of last season + a summary of one of their prospect page, which they pulled out of a hat (and don't give me: "oh, but it was following a draft simulation", yhea, like draft simulations ever get close to reality past the 4 first picks). There was substantial to learn from it; just a page made to bait hits from forum members.

Hell, Thicke himself acknowledge that the formal is pre-set by the site's editor. Whether the fault should be attributed to him or the format (I think it's the latter, since Thicke has demonstrated very good argumentative skills) doesn't change the fact that it's a useless article.



1) No. Well, I doubt political writings is any form of opposition to Hockey Future.
2) Neither. I occasionally criticize other posters, but I prefer to prop up those who write good posts. And I rarely take the time to bash on sportswriters (or wannabes). It's just that this one happened because I thought criticism of the article was fair, and the passive/aggressive lash out was definitely out of place.

I may think Thicke's opinion of Subban is very wrong, but I'm not criticizing him about that. I am criticizing the form he used to write about feedbacks he received, I am criticizing the format he used to write his bloody useless article.



Am I? Do you think Overlord deserved a "shut up, you are a moderator and should not speak ill of Hockey News's article"? Do you feel it was necessary to have a last season recap in the article?




I did read whole of your post, and that still does not answer my question. You know not anyone can just pick up a keyboard and start writing? Why claim you have no "desire to become a sportswriter" as a form of defense, when you are clearly writing some sports article using your past credentials? At least, I suspect you aren't just banging up stuff randomly with your keyboard.

Also, I still can't go past the reaction you gave for the feedback you got. Which was:

SHUT UP. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO VOICE AN OPINION AGAINST US.

You acted pettily and defensive from the get-go. Poor behavior following a poor article.

But hey, it's all good. I can say the most aggressive things to you and come out all right because I insert this smiley at the end!!


Right?

RIGHT?!
One last try and I am out! I said what I said to Overlords because he works as a moderator for the HF website Boards who are the same company that set-up the articles for their website. HF website wants its board readers to read their article as well. Do you knock the company you work for in public or do you voice your opinion and dislike of some thing they produce or provide privately as not to effect the product? You don't think your company would discipline you, if you are speaking out publicly against them? It's not smart business to allow it.

As far as the sportwriter comment: I have been using my hockey experience to write for HF part-time for the last three years and have written articles about the prospects of Calgary Flames, Vancouver Canucks, St. Louis Blues, Nashville Predators, San Jose Sharks and the Monteal Canadiens as well as the Top 50 lists and Team Rankings. I chose to start writing for them because I like their concept of information on the prospect pools of each team. I also was tired of reading crap put out by sportwriters who had no clue about hockey and just flare up stories on pure speculation without any basis to what they are saying, just to bring in readers through sensationalism. I have tried to bring analysis to my writing of HF but at times, am a little too technical so my editor has to remove or re-word my writings and make it fit the format and page lengths. Most of the articles formats are set after years of working on them and they are not easily changed. I can't speculate or write on rumours nor would I if I could but I can state possibilities or probable.

A sportswriter has a Journalism or English literature degree not necessarily any real practical knowledge of any sport and same token I know hockey with real knowledge but I am not really a sportswriter but I guess I must doing something right if HF has allowed me to write about many different teams for them for three years. I am not sure how much longer I will stay here.

If you want to see a change in the content of our articles then just address your ideas and opinions to the right place, the Managing editor found at http://www.hockeysfuture.com/contactus/ I never once said or implied: SHUT UP. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO VOICE AN OPINION AGAINST US. Only people can make change but it needs to be directed to the right place in order to make change.

If that's what you or Overlords took from what I wrote then I am sorry because it was never meant that way. I hope this finally explains everything! No passive aggressive tone or thinking here. No smiley here.


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06-22-2013, 01:11 PM
  #120
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What wheeling and dealing might it take to draft Frederik Gauthier?
top 15 , would our 25 and a second and third in this stacked draft do it ?

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06-22-2013, 01:21 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Teufel,

I wrote a long mea culpa explaining why i was wrong about the tank. I am sorry you did not see it, it is in one of the taking threads, the last or second last one.

Tinordi, a solid pick, was drafted in 2010. He will be effective in 2013-2014, maybe. Beaulieu might be a year faster, and Leblanc a year slower.

Mcdonagh and Pacioretty were very good 2007 picks. They became effective around 2010-2011. Lars Eller, a good player from the same draft, took another year.

That is how long good picks take.
As you know, there's uncertainty about how any draftee will turn out and when he'll be NHL-ready. For example, Gallagher, a 5th round pick, became a regular on the Habs' 1st line at age 20. The Habs acquired 2013 and 2014 picks by trading Gill, AKost, Cammalleri, Cole, and I've forgotten who else. With 6 picks in the first 3 rounds, they might come out of the supposedly deep 2013 draft with a few NHL players. Indeed, someone picked in a lower round might follow a development path similar to Gallagher's.

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06-22-2013, 01:34 PM
  #122
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What's with people these days....


have a beer & enjoy the draft. The habs have some great picks, a gm that wants to make us bigger & more competitive and one of the best scouting player development staffs in the NHL. I can't wait to see who they like (and then to read all the posers complain hehe!)

Have fun bite your nails off...say you know better than the paid pros...& stop sh-iting on eachother!

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06-22-2013, 04:44 PM
  #123
25get
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
...
It went overboard when the writer lashed out at a fan here just because he was a moderator voicing casually his opinion. There was no reason to be so rude to Overlords, and he adopted a passive-aggressive tone for most of his posts here.
...

Am I? Do you think Overlord deserved a "shut up, you are a moderator and should not speak ill of Hockey News's article"? Do you feel it was necessary to have a last season recap in the article?
...

Right?

RIGHT?!
Right.

I missed the censure part.
Moderators on this board should be allowed to comment.

But an error on his part does not mean you have to be mean.
In this context, you final comment is very much welcome.

I do agree that the article did not live up to my expectations but there are plenty of such articles by paid journalists.
I would not say "useless" especially for readers who do not read the boards and just go on HF main site.

I think we have talked enough about this article.

Going back to the draft, seems to me that the real question is:
Do we trade up given the cost? (Buffalo paid 21st + 42nd to get 14th)
Given that, can we get to 15th with a 34th + 25th?
Should we keep our 2nd round to pick players because this draft is deep according to Bergevin?

Most of these questions will remain until the draft happens.

Also, we will need to wait for the end of the cup to see the real pool of UFA when BO will happen.
SCap going down, this could be the deepest UFA crop in years and a lot of teams will be broke.

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06-22-2013, 05:02 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
top 15 , would our 25 and a second and third in this stacked draft do it ?
A 36th + 25th could get you to around 15th-17th.
Back in 2010, we climbed from 27th to 22nd by giving a 57th.
We took Tinordi but could have gotten Coyle and Linberg (PHX picked Visentin instead of Coyle).

This would put you with Buffalo, NYI and Ottawa as trading partners.
Buffalo is in our division and traded up in the previous draft.
Ottawa is also in our division.
This is the reason why many are proposing a trade with NYI.

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06-22-2013, 07:01 PM
  #125
Westcoasthabsfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverHabs97 View Post
FYI I didn't write this...
Saw that the first time you posted it....

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