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Seattle III: All Along the Watchtower (UPD: Rumored expansion 2014-15 Post#829)

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06-22-2013, 03:38 PM
  #26
Confucius
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It's too late, Hansen said it would be no problem changing his offer to NHL or NBA for an arena. Well has he done it yet? How long ago was that? The league won't be moving into Seattle without guarantees a new arena will be built.

The talks for the new arena should have heated up but it appears the new arena news is nonexistent now. Why is that?


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06-22-2013, 04:21 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Charon of Styx View Post
It's too late, Hansen said it would be no problem changing his offer to NHL or NBA for an arena. Well has he done it yet? How long ago was that? The league won't be moving into Seattle without guarantees a new arena will be built.

The talks for the new arena should have heated up but it appears the new arena news is nonexistent now. Why is that?
Hansen worked out an agreement with the city. Both parties would have to agree to change the MOU. That would obviously take time to iron out the details. I agree that it would be difficult to move the Coyotes to Seattle without a change to the MOU. We really have no idea what's going on behind the scenes with the arena or with NBA expansion however. We can't write anything off just yet.

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06-22-2013, 04:25 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Charon of Styx View Post
The talks for the new arena should have heated up but it appears the new arena news is nonexistent now. Why is that?
I dont know obviously. The Mayors said the MOU can be changed to accommodate the NHL as the lead franchisee & tenant, however, that'll take time, and already a Council member has come right out & said that if its the NHL only, he doesnt think it'll fly. Investments too much. That he'd love to have the NHL in Seattle, but that the economics of the building only works with the NBA as lead. So agree or disagree with him all you want, that too a debate that could go either way further stalling the construction of a new arena. So ya, problematical, bit of a roll of the dice to put it mildly.


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06-22-2013, 04:33 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post



I dont know obviously. The Mayors said the MOU can be changed to accommodate the NHL as the lead franchisee & tenant, however, that'll take time, and already a Council member has come right out & said that if its the NHL only, he doesnt think it'll fly. Investments too much. That he'd love to have the NHL in Seattle, but that the economics of the building only works with the NBA as lead. So agree or disagree with him all you want, that too a debate that could go either way further stalling the construction of a new arena. So ya, problematical, bit of a roll of the dice to put it mildly.
I've used that analogy before, sure we'll help fund an NFL stadium, giddyup. What's that, it's for a CFL team? Well yeah ok, we'll supply the street litter pickup guys....

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06-22-2013, 04:37 PM
  #30
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Hansen worked out an agreement with the city. Both parties would have to agree to change the MOU. That would obviously take time to iron out the details. I agree that it would be difficult to move the Coyotes to Seattle without a change to the MOU. We really have no idea what's going on behind the scenes with the arena or with NBA expansion however. We can't write anything off just yet.
Agreement to change the MOU is only a step in the right direction, I'm sure the league wants an ironclad assurance it gets built before they move there. As I said there should be a flurry of arena news happening....

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06-22-2013, 07:32 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Charon of Styx View Post
Agreement to change the MOU is only a step in the right direction, I'm sure the league wants an ironclad assurance it gets built before they move there. As I said there should be a flurry of arena news happening....
There isn't going to be changes to MOU unless its guaranteed we are getting a NHL team.

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06-22-2013, 07:57 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
There isn't going to be changes to MOU unless its guaranteed we are getting a NHL team.
So you think the league is going to move a team there when there is a good possibility the new arena won't get built. My opinion, not likely.

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06-22-2013, 08:07 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Charon of Styx View Post
So you think the league is going to move a team there when there is a good possibility the new arena won't get built. My opinion, not likely.
Do you even know the situation seattle is in here. If MOU changes and no NHL team arrives but the NBA team does. Guess what arena isn't going to get built for the NBA team. The fact we are plan B for coyotes only way that happens if there were assurances that the arena will get built. And you or anyone else here has no idea what has been discussed between Seattle, Hansen, NHL group and the NHL to where those assurances that the arena will get built.

Seattle has leverage in regards to any changes to the MOU. NHL has to guarantee us a team either coyotes or expansion before any negotiations for changes can happen. Like i said non of us has anyone of what has been discussed behind closed doors.

Our arena funding depends on the revenue generated by arena. An empty arena with no NBA and/or NHL generates but only other events generates very little. And Seattle was very clear they do not want another white elephant.


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06-22-2013, 08:14 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
There isn't going to be changes to MOU unless its guaranteed we are getting a NHL team.
Ya, see, that might be a problem tommy. Cart before the horse. I dont know. Its one thing for the Mayor to tell the potential owners & the league "sure, I'll support the changes to the MOU for an NHL first arena", quite another is it not for all of the rest of the players involved to do so, from Hansen through to various Council members & stake holders? What would be fabulous would be if these guys came in there and just took the Bull by the Horns, promising an arena and anchor NHL tenancy, be it Sodo district or y'know what?, Bellevue, as with the kind of money these guys have, thats also available in Seattle from Id imagine several sources exclusive of Hansen & his partner, very much doable. So if they promised the NHL absolutely, Hansen or no Hansen & no NBA, we'll be building, the NHL would more than likely be good with that promise (in writing of course), ecstatic in fact. Maybe thats already been tabled, just no idea.

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06-22-2013, 08:21 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Ya, see, that might be a problem tommy. Cart before the horse. I dont know. Its one thing for the Mayor to tell the potential owners & the league "sure, I'll support the changes to the MOU for an NHL first arena", quite another is it not for all of the rest of the players involved to do so, from Hansen through to various Council members & stake holders? What would be fabulous would be if these guys came in there and just took the Bull by the Horns, promising an arena and anchor NHL tenancy, be it Sodo district or y'know what?, Bellevue, as with the kind of money these guys have, thats also available in Seattle from Id imagine several sources exclusive of Hansen & his partner, very much doable. So if they promised the NHL absolutely, Hansen or no Hansen & no NBA, we'll be building, the NHL would more than likely be good with that promise (in writing of course), ecstatic in fact. Maybe thats already been tabled, just no idea.
Welcome to Seattle politics. I personally hate that and feel thats is the one flaw in the agreement.

If Bellevue gets arena Hansen will not be involved.

There is a lot of discussions behind closed doors we just don't know what has been discussed or promised to the NHL. I clearly see if Seattle is plan B then something has to been said that would give the league assurances that the arena will get built.

Its not simple to change NBA firs to NHL first. Seattle will not provide the same 120m for NBA first to NHL first. Hansen isn't going to provide 290m for the arena for NHL first. This is serious negotiations between Hansen, Seattle, King county and NHL group. We don't even know what the discussions between Hansen and NBA in regards to expansion to seattle. If (huge IF) NBA gives us expansion within a year then changes do not have to come to the MOU.

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06-22-2013, 08:25 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
Do you even know the situation seattle is in here. If MOU changes and no NHL team arrives but the NBA team does. Guess what arena isn't going to get built for the NBA team. The fact we are plan B for coyotes only way that happens if there were assurances that the arena will get built. And you or anyone else here has no idea what has been discussed between Seattle, Hansen, NHL group and the NHL to where those assurances that the arena will get built.

Seattle has leverage in regards to any changes to the MOU. NHL has to guarantee us a team either coyotes or expansion before any negotiations for changes can happen. Like i said non of us has anyone of what has been discussed behind closed doors.

Our arena funding depends on the revenue generated by arena. An empty arena with no NBA and/or NHL generates but only other events generates very little. And Seattle was very clear they do not want another white elephant.
I don't agree with you. The mou could have been easily written to read either or. It wasn't, hmm I wonder why? Anyway it supposedly can easily be rewritten to read either NBA or NHL, so why don't they do it?

Edit to add. I see your latest response, so you agree the new arena is far from a certainty.

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06-22-2013, 08:29 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Charon of Styx View Post
I don't agree with you. The mou could have been easily written to read either or. It wasn't, hmm I wonder why? Anyway it supposedly can easily be rewritten to read either NBA or NHL, so why don't they do it?
It has to do with funding. Change NBA with NHL or even NBA or NHL and requires changing of how its funded. Hansen won't provide significant funds for NHL first arena. Seattle won't provide 120m for the arena for NHL first.

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Originally Posted by Charon of Styx View Post
Edit to add. I see your latest response, so you agree the new arena is far from a certainty.
To be honest with out knowing what has been said to the NHL that was acceptable in assurances that the arena will happen or what the NBA plans are for expansion, i have no idea rather or not this arena will happen.

Like i said if Seattle is plan b for coyotes then something was said to the NHL that was acceptable in regards to getting that arena built.

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06-22-2013, 08:31 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
It has to do with funding. Change NBA with NHL or even NBA or NHL and requires changing of how its funded. Hansen won't provide significant funds for NHL first arena. Seattle won't provide 120m for the arena for NHL first.
Exactly and that is a problem.

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06-22-2013, 08:34 PM
  #39
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Exactly and that is a problem.
I'm not saying changes won't happen but with seattle having the leverage negotiations won't happen unless a team arrives. Seattle was screwed by the NBA over the kings.

It took a lot from hansen to even get seattle to agree to the MOU in the first place.

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06-22-2013, 08:42 PM
  #40
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Welcome to Seattle politics.... If Bellevue gets arena Hansen will not be involved.
Ya. Peculiarities shared by Vancouver & Victoria, Bellingham, Tacoma, Portland etc. Was suggesting just that though tommy, that these guys let it be known with or without Hansen, were building an arena. Large & in-charge. Work with us or get out of our way. Bellevue, Bothell, Sodo, wherever.

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06-22-2013, 08:45 PM
  #41
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Ya. Peculiarities shared by Vancouver & Victoria, Bellingham, Tacoma, Portland etc. Was suggesting just that though tommy, that these guys let it be known with or without Hansen, were building an arena. Large & in-charge. Work with us or get out of our way. Bellevue, Bothell, Sodo, wherever.
To be honest Sodo arena is the best location for an arena given transportation options.

Coyotes may stay and that would give us time to find out what the ordeal is going to be for the NBA expansion. Stern is out in February. Hasnen i think is waiting till after stern leaves to start talks again. Who knows maybe stern will grant expansion as he leaves.

By the time February hits the EIS/SEPA will be done with final approval and that is the bigger issue besides getting a team secured. Worst case scenario the arena location is somewhere else in seattle.

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06-22-2013, 08:55 PM
  #42
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Worst case scenario the arena location is somewhere else in seattle.
Yes he could do that, on his way out of office in an act of magnanimity grant 2 Expansion franchises, entirely possible. Alternative post-Stern Expansion or perhaps the acquisition of the Milwaukee Bucks who appear destined for an exit by 2017. Frankly I preferred Levins track on the whole NHL to Seattle dealeo. Parallel course to Hansens, separate & independent of, not reliant upon him, the NBA, the municipality etc. If absolutely serious about it I see no reason why these guys should or even would wait around on anyone else, least of all another league entirely. Just do it, get it on.

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06-22-2013, 09:35 PM
  #43
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Yes he could do that, on his way out of office in an act of magnanimity grant 2 Expansion franchises, entirely possible. Alternative post-Stern Expansion or perhaps the acquisition of the Milwaukee Bucks who appear destined for an exit by 2017. Frankly I preferred Levins track on the whole NHL to Seattle dealeo. Parallel course to Hansens, separate & independent of, not reliant upon him, the NBA, the municipality etc. If absolutely serious about it I see no reason why these guys should or even would wait around on anyone else, least of all another league entirely. Just do it, get it on.
Levin is out. He tried to get an arena built in believe, but he didn't get the land, the support and political support. He didn't even reveal his plan for the building. NBA is renewing their TV contract a year early and rumors say Seattle will have a NBA team in 2 years time.

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06-22-2013, 09:52 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
It has to do with funding. Change NBA with NHL or even NBA or NHL and requires changing of how its funded. Hansen won't provide significant funds for NHL first arena. Seattle won't provide 120m for the arena for NHL first.
glad to see you have come to your senses.

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06-22-2013, 09:59 PM
  #45
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glad to see you have come to your senses.
Umm i knew that for it to be changed to allow NHL first, the NHL group would have to pick up some of the risk from hansen and some of the risk from the city.

I already knew for quite some time that hansen is in this for NBA. He said he is open to allow hockey first if NHL group picks up some amount (amount TBD) of the risk.

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06-22-2013, 10:31 PM
  #46
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dado,

your post in regard possible seattle group in glendale for one season in principal then move. Any thought if that was just to get the MOU changed and key arena ready but seattle ends up getting awarded expansion instead next year.

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06-22-2013, 10:32 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
It has to do with funding. Change NBA with NHL or even NBA or NHL and requires changing of how its funded. Hansen won't provide significant funds for NHL first arena. Seattle won't provide 120m for the arena for NHL first.

If the MOU is going to be changed, I am sure that Hansen might take the financial risk of the arena without an NBA team. The MOU cannot change without his or the City of Seattle's consent and any NHL owner will be crazy to risk his investment if the NBA never comes to Seattle. So IMO I think Hansen is taking all risks to make everything work and I am not worried about funding or MOU's because there would not be a plan B if this was not covered with the city of Seattle and the NHL.


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06-22-2013, 10:34 PM
  #48
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I'm just guessing. It seems to me there's no way to get Key ready in time starting from "right now", but there's also no reason to get Key ready for the season after unless an acutal deal has been reached to move the team. And that also gives everyone lots of time to calmly modify the MOU with whatever it needs to be modified with and get the NBA side of the equation sorted out.

So, if Healy is right, the deal has to be done "now" so Seattle can justify doing what it needs to do for the 2014 season.

 
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06-22-2013, 10:37 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
dado,

your post in regard possible seattle group in glendale for one season in principal then move. Any thought if that was just to get the MOU changed and key arena ready but seattle ends up getting awarded expansion instead next year.
I can't see the NHL selling to Seattle and staying for a year in Glendale,
That arena will be empty and losses beyond belief. Perhaps a sale not revealed until the end of next season but telling Phoenix fans it's over but hey come see another year of games won't go over well at all.

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06-22-2013, 10:38 PM
  #50
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I'm just guessing. It seems to me there's no way to get Key ready in time starting from "right now", but there's also no reason to get Key ready for the season after unless an acutal deal has been reached to move the team. And that also gives everyone lots of time to calmly modify the MOU with whatever it needs to be modified with and get the NBA side of the equation sorted out.

So, if Healy is right, the deal has to be done "now" so Seattle can justify doing what it needs to do for the 2014 season.
True but i was just wondering if NHL could decide to give us expansion instead of coyotes.

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