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What to do with Mikhail Grabovski?

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Old
06-22-2013, 07:08 PM
  #26
Dreakmur
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
At $5.5 mil he needs to be in an offensive role and receive top 6 forward minutes and PP time to validate that contract.
That's exactly why I hated that contract so much. Grabo just can't be in that role for a contending team.

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06-22-2013, 07:24 PM
  #27
Blaylock38
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I am not sure the question here is where does he fit as much as it is, Can we get to the next level with Grabo as our 2nd line centre, being paid his current Salary. Does he bring enough to the table, does he have more, or have we seen it all?

If so than we do not need to get anyone at the Centre position, keep things status quo

If we feel we need more out that position and/or Salary number, than a buy-out, a trade whatever is needed and than the hunt for a replacement begins.

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06-22-2013, 08:01 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
The best thing to do with Grabovski is cross your fingers and hope he rebounds.

His production compared to his contract make him a tough sell in trade unless perhaps a undesirable contract is received in return. Then are the Leafs any better off cap wise?

At $5.5 mil he needs to be in an offensive role and receive top 6 forward minutes and PP time to validate that contract.
Perhaps the best idea is to not re-sign Bozak, move Kadri to the first line and let Grabovski play an offensive role on the 2nd. line.

Next year see if:
a) Kadri is a #1, #2, or #3 center
b) Grabovski is a #1, #2, or #3 center
c) Colborne can force McClement out of town

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06-22-2013, 08:17 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Perhaps the best idea is to not re-sign Bozak, move Kadri to the first line and let Grabovski play an offensive role on the 2nd. line.

Next year see if:
a) Kadri is a #1, #2, or #3 center
b) Grabovski is a #1, #2, or #3 center
c) Colborne can force McClement out of town
Ya why would we want to keep a guy who was a huge part in making our PK one of the best in the league.

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06-22-2013, 08:22 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
The best thing to do with Grabovski is cross your fingers and hope he rebounds.

His production compared to his contract make him a tough sell in trade unless perhaps a undesirable contract is received in return. Then are the Leafs any better off cap wise?

At $5.5 mil he needs to be in an offensive role and receive top 6 forward minutes and PP time to validate that contract.
A few days ago I was listening to TSN 1050 and Bryan Hayes was specluating that if Dave Nonis wanted to trade Grabovski and is willing to retain $1.4 million of his contract on the Leafs salary cap, the team who trades for him only needs to pay Grabovski $4 million for the next 4 years. He seems to think that could make it easier for Nonis to trade him.

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06-22-2013, 08:24 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Perhaps the best idea is to not re-sign Bozak, move Kadri to the first line and let Grabovski play an offensive role on the 2nd. line.

Next year see if:
a) Kadri is a #1, #2, or #3 center
b) Grabovski is a #1, #2, or #3 center
c) Colborne can force McClement out of town
Considering how much McClement had helped the Leafs penalty killing going from 29th overall during 2011-2012 season to 2nd overall in 2012- 2013 season, I can't see him being traded.

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06-22-2013, 08:25 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by MakeTheIronSing View Post
again, buying out grabovski is probably the stupidest option of all.

what is the purpose of doing so? just to get rid of him? because he didn't produce offence last year? its 5.5 million.

he could play 10 games to start the season and fans could completely forget about his lack of offence last year.

i wish people would stop the rabble against this guy. from zero to hero around these parts, its awful.
playoffs


he was a force!

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06-22-2013, 08:37 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Ya why would we want to keep a guy who was a huge part in making our PK one of the best in the league.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Considering how much McClement had helped the Leafs penalty killing going from 29th overall during 2011-2012 season to 2nd overall in 2012- 2013 season, I can't see him being traded.
So if McClement is better than Colborne he keeps his job.

What you want to give a lifetime contract to McClement because he turned the Leafs PK around?

He should have to compete for his job and if Colborne is better you give the job to Colborne.

How does that not make sense?

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06-22-2013, 09:00 PM
  #34
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Man, I love Grabo and hope he doesn't get moved. Never break up he and Kooly. He's played hard every shift for how long now? We should just try and get Stalberg and give that another go. Who the hell cares about the dough, let the professionals handle that.

kule grabo stalberg would be nice now that their all grown up!

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06-22-2013, 09:09 PM
  #35
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Grabovski should rebound if he is utilized properly and to his strengths. You shouldn't really expect much in terms of production if he is completely misused again like he was this past season. Playing primarily in a checking role with defensive wingers while going up against the oppositions top units, will definitely limit what a player can do offensively. He also only had 36.7% offensive zone starts, so he pretty much had to play a 150ft game if he wanted to put up the points.

In comparison, Tyler Bozak had 44.8% offensive zone starts and a 44.5% (-0.3%) offensive zone finish. Grabovski started only 36.7% of his shifts in the O-zone, but managed to have an offensive zone finish of 43.3% (+6.6%).

Grabovski turned some of that time spent starting in the defensive zone into offensive zone time and more scoring opportunities, while Bozak and his line coughed up puck possession and spent a large portion of time defending their own net rather than driving possession forward and attacking the other teams net.

I'd personally let Bozak walk. Grabo is overpaid sure, but the thought of handing an inferior player like Bozak 4 or 5M just doesn't make much sense. I wouldn't mind keeping Bozak if it were in a 3C role, but he won't be paid as a third liner, so it's probably best to just let him walk.

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06-22-2013, 09:10 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
So if McClement is better than Colborne he keeps his job.

What you want to give a lifetime contract to McClement because he turned the Leafs PK around?

He should have to compete for his job and if Colborne is better you give the job to Colborne.

How does that not make sense?
It's the "force McClement out of town" that was stupid. Even if Colborne is better, it just knocks McClement to the 4th line. You don't get rid of a guy like McClement.

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Old
06-22-2013, 09:11 PM
  #37
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Not happens with buyouts til after or during jr. draft, and over-priced roster teams have to scramble. There are a lot of teams in big trouble right now and will have to unload. Can't wait! Sit tight Nonis.

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06-22-2013, 09:22 PM
  #38
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Best to let Bozak walk?

You should not care about the money he receives and be grateful for the damn guy. Although a half season, he had a great season. I'd hate to see him go.

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06-22-2013, 09:28 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glasses91 View Post
Best to let Bozak walk?

You should not care about the money he receives and be grateful for the damn guy. Although a half season, he had a great season. I'd hate to see him go.
You're overrating Tyler Bozak. Grabovski had a higher even strength scoring rate than Tyler Bozak. Don't you find that telling considering the roles each of them played on the team?

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06-22-2013, 09:34 PM
  #40
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Bozak's no look passes piss me off, but that's about it. I'm comfortable when he's out there. He also seemed to be the only one who can burry one in a shoot out. He deserves a nice raise no?

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06-22-2013, 10:06 PM
  #41
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Does anyone else find it funny that people don't really compare Grabo's value to a lesser version of Stastny? Given that Stastny had a higher peak, but both centres are being put in unnatural roles (or with ****** wingers). This comparison has been made before.

But when I go see Stastny proposals, Avs fans all say "Stastny is worth Phaneuf or Gardiner because there is potential that he can still put up 60+ pts"... well, based on that logic then Grabo should be worth ??? because he has potential to put up 50-55 pts? Yes, his contract is longer, but his value is hardly deemed negative.

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06-22-2013, 10:07 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by glasses91 View Post
Bozak's no look passes piss me off, but that's about it. I'm comfortable when he's out there. He also seemed to be the only one who can burry one in a shoot out. He deserves a nice raise no?
I thought I was the only one who noticed those. How often does Bozak throw a between the legs pass that misses every single player (including opposing players)? It's even worse when the play-by-play guys say the player wasn't ready for the pass like it's their fault Bozak just tossed the puck to no one in particular.

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Old
06-22-2013, 10:18 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Crispy Crust View Post
You're overrating Tyler Bozak. Grabovski had a higher even strength scoring rate than Tyler Bozak. Don't you find that telling considering the roles each of them played on the team?
Grabovski was utilized even more defensively than Stastny and didn't have someone like Duchene to lessen the pressure against the top lines. He produced 29 goals and 58 points with mediocre wingers, and would definitely produce a lot more if he played with Kessel.

The fact that Grabovski has a poor +/- has a lot to do with the fact that he was up against the top scoring lines. We saw Grabs being attacked for giving up goals, but it's clear Randy is very good in matching lines. After all, we were able to take Boston to game 7 OT while Colorado went nowhere. Grabs played an essential role shutting down top lines and if he's gone, we'll be very weak in that regard. I can't see Grabs being moved for that reason unless we acquire a replacement or use Kadri in that role.

That said, Jay McClement had very little to do with the role unless he was on Grabovski's wing. Interestingly, MacArthur was able to score some goals in that role so let's hope Clarkson can do that as well. I am quite certain that Kulemin will be used offensively, but will see similar SH TOI. In other words, much like how Getlzaf isn't used in a shut down role, but does see time on the PK.

I think if we don't make changes in that remark, Grabovski will still be our shut down centre. During the playoffs, he did have 4 minutes additional TOI/G than McClement while his offensive zone starts were under 30%. He still had some great opportunities in the offensive zone and I could see Randy giving him minutes with better wingers.

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06-22-2013, 10:25 PM
  #44
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Keep him.

He had a bad year doesn't mean we run him out of town. If this was like Brad Richards who has had back to back bad years, I'd be worried. People also forget grabo has been fighting health wise as well, not to mention still showed a lot of guts in the playoffs.

Patience is needed, unless there is a package where we just can't refuse.

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06-22-2013, 10:26 PM
  #45
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Grabovski's definately a keeper for atleast one more season. He was an important cog to Carlyles gameplan, and we wouldn't have made it to where we did without him to take those tough defensive minutes. Especially if we lose Bozak, and can't immediately find another top six capable center through trade (Stastny). If I had to choose between Bozak or Grabo, I prefer Grabo. But hopefully Bozak knows what's good for him and resigns for a discount.

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06-22-2013, 10:54 PM
  #46
nuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mokspeed View Post
Does anyone else find it funny that people don't really compare Grabo's value to a lesser version of Stastny? Given that Stastny had a higher peak, but both centres are being put in unnatural roles (or with ****** wingers). This comparison has been made before.

But when I go see Stastny proposals, Avs fans all say "Stastny is worth Phaneuf or Gardiner because there is potential that he can still put up 60+ pts"... well, based on that logic then Grabo should be worth ??? because he has potential to put up 50-55 pts? Yes, his contract is longer, but his value is hardly deemed negative.
It is absolutely funny. Grabo was outscored by Stastny by 1 point in the two years prior to the strike, and outscored Weiss by 3 points. All three kind of sucked this season. People, myself included, are saying of Stastny and Weiss that we need to disregard last season and go by previous production to improve the club. Based on their production since 2010, how much of an improvement are we actually guaranteed by selling Grabovski low to get one of the others?

2010-11 Colorado Avalanche NHL 74 22 35 57 -7 -- -- -- -- --
2011-12 Colorado Avalanche NHL 79 21 32 53 -8 -- -- -- -- --
2012-13 Munich EHC DEL 13 7 11 18 +1 -- -- -- -- --
2012-13 Colorado Avalanche NHL 40 9 15 24 -7

2010-11 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 81 29 29 58 +14 -- -- -- -- --
2011-12 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 74 23 28 51 0 -- -- -- -- --
2012-13 CSKA Moscow KHL 29 12 12 24 +8
2012-13 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 48 9 7 16 -10

2010-11 Florida Panthers NHL 76 21 28 49 49 -9 -- -- -- -- --
2011-12 Florida Panthers NHL 80 20 37 57 +5
2012-13 Florida Panthers NHL 17 1 3 4 -13


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Old
06-22-2013, 10:56 PM
  #47
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Fun fact, Grabovski produced 13points at ES this year while Stastny produced 14 points at ES. Both were used in Defensive roles.

Grabo is either a top 6 forward or he's nothing. He doesn't have size or playmaking abilities, just a rusher with a good shot. If he's not a top 6 Center, ship him out somewhere with retained salary (Dallas maybe?) we could get a good return.

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06-22-2013, 11:04 PM
  #48
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Keep him and use him as the top 6 centreman that he is. If he sucks, compliance buyout next summer. Not sure why so many want to use our buyouts as quickly as possible without actually weighing the consequences.

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06-22-2013, 11:21 PM
  #49
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Keep him

Its weird, that he said himself that when he plays better defense, he plays better offense.

All those who want to dump him, want to see those 29 goals.
Like Kessel (who had a cold streak)its quite possible that this season, he didn't have time to get into his hot zone.

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06-22-2013, 11:38 PM
  #50
Crispy Crust
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Chosen_One View Post
Grabovski was utilized even more defensively than Stastny and didn't have someone like Duchene to lessen the pressure against the top lines. He produced 29 goals and 58 points with mediocre wingers, and would definitely produce a lot more if he played with Kessel.

The fact that Grabovski has a poor +/- has a lot to do with the fact that he was up against the top scoring lines. We saw Grabs being attacked for giving up goals, but it's clear Randy is very good in matching lines. After all, we were able to take Boston to game 7 OT while Colorado went nowhere. Grabs played an essential role shutting down top lines and if he's gone, we'll be very weak in that regard. I can't see Grabs being moved for that reason unless we acquire a replacement or use Kadri in that role.

That said, Jay McClement had very little to do with the role unless he was on Grabovski's wing. Interestingly, MacArthur was able to score some goals in that role so let's hope Clarkson can do that as well. I am quite certain that Kulemin will be used offensively, but will see similar SH TOI. In other words, much like how Getlzaf isn't used in a shut down role, but does see time on the PK.

I think if we don't make changes in that remark, Grabovski will still be our shut down centre. During the playoffs, he did have 4 minutes additional TOI/G than McClement while his offensive zone starts were under 30%. He still had some great opportunities in the offensive zone and I could see Randy giving him minutes with better wingers.
Good post. I actually wouldn't mind bringing back MacArthur. Pretty productive depth winger.

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