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Trading Up III: Does Anyone Have Incriminating Photos Of Burnaby Joe?

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Old
06-22-2013, 06:53 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Director of Central Scouting named Nurse as one of 5 elite players. Darcy sounded surprised and said he thought there were 6. People aren't giving Nurse the credit he deserves around here. Don't be surprised at all if he is our target.
Brock likes Nurse enough to top his OHL player list.

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1. Darnell Nurse - Defenseman - Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds
At this point, Nurse is definitely my top prospect available from the OHL. All season long, I wrestled back and forth between Monahan and Nurse. But it's clearly Nurse now IMO. He possesses so much potential at the next level. He could be a perennial Norris candidate IMO.

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06-22-2013, 06:54 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Director of Central Scouting named Nurse as one of 5 elite players. Darcy sounded surprised and said he thought there were 6. People aren't giving Nurse the credit he deserves around here. Don't be surprised at all if he is our target.
I have been one if the biggest Nurse backers on this board and would be very happy with him at #8, the people who think Nurse has a low hockey IQ probably haven't seen him at all or just not the second half of the year. His jump in development from the start of the year to the end was as good as anyone in the entire draft, he is also just scratching the surface offensively and will only get better once Sproul moves on to Grand Rapids and he see's first line PP situations. Pegula stressed Character and work ethic, this kid has both in spades.

I don't know how you couldn't be excited about adding a kid with that size, skating, competitiveness to your organization. He also seems incredibly mature and very smart for his age, I wouldn't mind adding someone semi local as well - Hamilton, ON.


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06-22-2013, 06:55 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Awwufelloff View Post
Man I've lost all faith in Myers. After his calder year I thought we had our franchise D all locked up and wouldn't even trade him for 1st overall. His play was absolutely UNREAL. Now...I would make that trade easily. I think we would even have to add to Myers to get the 5th overall, maybe a 2nd round pick or something. 5th, 8th, 16th pick in this draft would make this a quick rebuild.
Yeah Myers was unbelievable in his rookie year. A part of me will always hope he can recapture that form. He's just looked like a completely different player since then. He's gained a bit of physicality to his game but has looked tenative with the puck and quite frankly if he's not playing the role of the puck moving/ puck carrying defenseman he's not very useful. If I could get a top prospect like Monahan or Lindholm or a great young player like Couturier for him I'm doing it at this point. Could he turn his game around and make the sabres look foolish? Sure, but at this point I'm not betting on it.

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06-22-2013, 07:02 PM
  #54
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If edmonton decides to pick forward at 7 and we take nurse/risto that could open the door for a potential myers/eberle trade, the oilers can't win with just good forwards

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06-22-2013, 07:04 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
If edmonton decides to pick forward at 7 and we take nurse/risto that could open the door for a potential myers/eberle trade, the oilers can't win with just good forwards
and we move Myers for Eberle why exactly ?

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06-22-2013, 09:11 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Many are focused heavily on forwards. By #8, we could see the start of more balance between forward selections and defense since Ristolainen, Nurse, and even Zadorov are in that tier of #8-16 evals for many.

There is no issue going D at #8. None at all.
100% agree - especially given that McNabb and Weber are the only 2 in the entire organization with any semblance of a physical edge. Landing any of those 3 prospects would definitely strengthen that element on defense.

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Originally Posted by gallagt01 View Post
Lindholm's offensive upside is much greater than Girgensons' or Larsson's.
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Lindholm produced at a rate in the SEL that no Swedish-born forward has in his draft year since Nick Backstrom. I don't think a lack of offensive upside is a viable knock on him.
From the Hockey News Draft Preview on Lindholm:

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The word that comes to mind most when scouts think about his future as an NHLer is 'responsible'. "I don't think he's ever going to be a prolific offensive guy and by that, I mean a guy who gets 80 points", one scout said. "But he's going to be a very good two-way center who can play on your second line".

Along with responsibility, Lindholm also brings a good dose of grit to his game. "With his size, you wouldn't expect him to be so physical", another scout said, "but he finishes his checks really well."
From NHL Scouting:

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"There is very little, if anything at all not to like about Elias Lindholm. He can do a bit of everything and he can do it all very well. While perhaps not an elite offensive producer (yet) he has the desire and drive, and talent, to create lot of offensive opportunities. He excels off transition and is a master at creating turnovers and forcing opponents to make mistakes. He has great hands, especially around the net, is a dynamite faceoff presence and is always engaging opponents in battles. Lindholm has future captain written all over him. He brings it every single shift and can be dominant in all situations. He has some surprising power for his size.” – International Scouting Services NHL Draft Guide
Much of the above sounds very much like how Larsson was described - strong defensively, crafty playmaker and underrated in his physical edge.

That said, I haven't seen either player in action so all I'm going off are written reports.

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06-22-2013, 11:16 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
and we move Myers for Eberle why exactly ?
Because he is the better player

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06-22-2013, 11:45 PM
  #58
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I wanted to reiterate that I really put Myers kind of straight up for the 5th, possibly cap dump/pick to balance it out.

I'm on the fence about it, sort of been a believer for awhile that Ruff ruined him and think the coaching staff will straighten him out.

But

If we possessed 5, 8 & 16......wow. Having those top 8 picks would get teams really listening to what package you'd put together for 1-4.

I can't remember if Chara had snarl with Ottawa (believe you either play mean or not) but I think I'd pull the trigger on Myers for the 5th, because I don't ever think he will clear the crease like he could and that's going to bother me that a shrimp, spark plug like Marchand can out muscle/snarl his way for position against Myers. Suck to loose him but think 3 top 16 picks would get us further, quicker.

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06-22-2013, 11:55 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
I have been one if the biggest Nurse backers on this board and would be very happy with him at #8, the people who think Nurse has a low hockey IQ probably haven't seen him at all or just not the second half of the year. His jump in development from the start of the year to the end was as good as anyone in the entire draft, he is also just scratching the surface offensively and will only get better once Sproul moves on to Grand Rapids and he see's first line PP situations. Pegula stressed Character and work ethic, this kid has both in spades.

I don't know how you couldn't be excited about adding a kid with that size, skating, competitiveness to your organization. He also seems incredibly mature and very smart for his age, I wouldn't mind adding someone semi local as well - Hamilton, ON.
Do you think the Sabres have him rated higher than Monahan?

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06-23-2013, 12:25 AM
  #60
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If I'm Darcy, I'm moving up to 5 and taking Lindholm no doubt about it. When I hear this "not elite enough offensively" talk, I think about his superstar countrymen Foppa and Zetterberg, and how he outscored both of them at the same age in the SEL. It's too hard to project the offensive ceiling on these kids, but when you see all his other traits, it's not a leap of faith to think he could get there.

Secondly, I'm just..wow...this NOT trading Myers for the 5th overall pick talk has me all kinds of stunned. I think a few of you need to step away from the NHL '12 video game and get back to reality. The kid is severely lacking BIG TIME in basic hockey IQ traits. For 80% of last season he looked like an average AHLer. With that pick, you can take a guy like Lindholm or maybe even Barkov, and back that up with Nurse and Zadorov. That's what you call stacking the pipeline.

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06-23-2013, 12:53 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afinogretzky View Post
If I'm Darcy, I'm moving up to 5 and taking Lindholm no doubt about it. When I hear this "not elite enough offensively" talk, I think about his superstar countrymen Foppa and Zetterberg, and how he outscored both of them at the same age in the SEL. It's too hard to project the offensive ceiling on these kids, but when you see all his other traits, it's not a leap of faith to think he could get there.

Secondly, I'm just..wow...this NOT trading Myers for the 5th overall pick talk has me all kinds of stunned. I think a few of you need to step away from the NHL '12 video game and get back to reality. The kid is severely lacking BIG TIME in basic hockey IQ traits. For 80% of last season he looked like an average AHLer. With that pick, you can take a guy like Lindholm or maybe even Barkov, and back that up with Nurse and Zadorov. That's what you call stacking the pipeline.
I think some of us were confused about the Myers thoughts. At first I thought it meant moving the 8th + Myers to move up 3 spots. I would move Myers for the 5th straight up.

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06-23-2013, 03:41 AM
  #62
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I say it again, Im not moving myers for the 5th pick.

Myers had some bad streches in the past but he is only 23 years old. Defensemen need more time to become the players they could be at NHL level. I would keep myers at least another 2 years.

If we trade up, I only would do it for McKinnon. All the other players aren't close to be sure superstars in the league right now. They're still projects but they have a lot of potential for sure. But the prospects we've got in the organization do have a lot of potential too.

The nearer the draft comes, the more I want us just to draft the best player available with our picks. One forward with potential will fall to # 8. And there will be some good options at # 16 too (I seriously could see ristolainen or nurse falling there).

So lets just draft with our picks. Trading up won't make us better right now (only if we get McKinnon) and it's not worth, giving up myers + for someone like Lindholm.

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06-23-2013, 08:31 AM
  #63
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Just pick at 8 and 16, and continue to add to this teams prospect pool. Last time I checked, this was a TEAM game, not an individual sport.

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06-23-2013, 08:51 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Patrice Bergeron isn't an elite offensive player. Who cares? He has an elite all around game. That's what we need. If the difference between Ristolainin and Lindholm is the difference between Alzner and Bergeron, I do everything in my power to get Lindholm, even though Ristolainin can be a really good player in his own way.
Remember a while back when a bunch of us wanted ROR and we were all willing to overpay for him and you argued with us? Welcome to the club, better late then never brah. Players like that win you games when they really matter, hopefully we load up on them!

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06-23-2013, 09:52 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by SECRET SQUIRREL View Post
Remember a while back when a bunch of us wanted ROR and we were all willing to overpay for him and you argued with us? Welcome to the club, better late then never brah. Players like that win you games when they really matter, hopefully we load up on them!
I still don't want ROR. I want guys that can skate.

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06-23-2013, 09:56 AM
  #66
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I'd do Myers straight up for the #5 pick and I wouldn't think twice about it. I guess I'm a pessimist regarding Myers. If we have 3 first rounders, one can be used to draft a defenseman.
That would just be redundant.... what are the chances that draft pick produces similarly to myers? very slim.

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06-23-2013, 09:57 AM
  #67
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I still don't want ROR. I want guys that can skate.
He can't skate? Lets not get myopic about this tool or that tool. The bottom line is that ROR's overall game is good enough to get you 50-60 pts and a great possession game, all while playing the opponent's best players.

Anyways, I digress. This organization needs more of the ROR/Girgensons/Horvats of he world.

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06-23-2013, 10:07 AM
  #68
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He can't skate? Lets not get myopic about this tool or that tool. The bottom line is that ROR's overall game is good enough to get you 50-60 pts and a great possession game, all while playing the opponent's best players.

Anyways, I digress. This organization needs more of the ROR/Girgensons/Horvats of he world.
Absolutely. That's why if Lindholm and Monahan are off the board I'd have no problem drafting Horvat @ 8. He's a guy who can win faceoffs, play a great defensive game and plays his best hockey when the game is on the line. I could see him becoming that ROR type of player that most of us covet.

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06-23-2013, 11:11 AM
  #69
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I have more faith in a player who has proven he can be a star returning to his talent capability as a star than someone who has not played a game in the NHL. Myers deserves and so do we, the opportunity to prove he is a top 2 defender or at worst top 4. Not to say he should not be traded-but one for one?--only MacKinnon seems to be enough of a sure thing for me to do that.

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06-23-2013, 11:23 AM
  #70
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I think Myers is at a point where Regier and other GMs just can't put an accurate value on him. When that's the case GMs usually worry more about getting burned than hitting the home run, so I don't expect him to move whether it's Regier's fears or another GM's.

I expect Myers to stay and get his game together, but I don't think he has the hockey sense to be a dynamic offensive catalyst. Teams adjusted in his 2nd season by pressuring him, from behind his own net to their own blue line, and it worked. Myers hasn't shown an ability to read the play and make the consistently right play since. So while I expect his game to get better, at least defensively, I don't expect him to live up to any hype offensively. The Sabres still owe it to themselves to find out, unless an (unlikely) great deal comes along.

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06-23-2013, 12:14 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
I think Myers is at a point where Regier and other GMs just can't put an accurate value on him. When that's the case GMs usually worry more about getting burned than hitting the home run, so I don't expect him to move whether it's Regier's fears or another GM's.

I expect Myers to stay and get his game together, but I don't think he has the hockey sense to be a dynamic offensive catalyst. Teams adjusted in his 2nd season by pressuring him, from behind his own net to their own blue line, and it worked. Myers hasn't shown an ability to read the play and make the consistently right play since. So while I expect his game to get better, at least defensively, I don't expect him to live up to any hype offensively. The Sabres still owe it to themselves to find out, unless an (unlikely) great deal comes along.
Not to be forgotten, the Flyers game planned for him and he still did a pretty solid job of both moving the puck and getting up into the play quickly in the Sabres last playoff series. Rolston simplified the game for all the d-men and there was clear improvement there -- he also got most of the forwards coming back deep enough for a short, multiple option breakout, something Ruff was unable (or unwilling, given his attachment to his system) to get them to do.

That said, Regier, as you mentioned, is highly unlikely to be moving Myers at this juncture.

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06-23-2013, 12:18 PM
  #72
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Myers Offensive game is being severely underrated due to one bad season.Myers is a good offensive defensemen.He puts up a lot of ES points and has one of the shots for a dman in the league.It isn't necessarily hard but Myers is able to always get his shot through and into the net.He needs to shoot more.

Since Myers rookie year, over the last 4 seasons Myers actually has the 4th best shooting % for dmen from 2009-2013.2/3rds of his points have come at ES.If our PP can ever improve then Myers will return to the 45+ point dman we know he can be.

As for trading Myers, anything less then a top 3 pick is not worth the return.This team hasn't had a true franchise #1 dman the whole 16 years Regier has been here and people want to trade the only guy who has the tools and potential to be that guy.He is 23 years old but yet people want to trade him to "rebuild"? There are no dmen in our pipeline that have the overall skillset that Myers has.Myers is an all situation guy that has shown he can put up 40+ points.One season doesn't erase the 3 previous ones.

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06-23-2013, 12:46 PM
  #73
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Not to derail the thread further, but has Regier spoke on Myers' play this season and what the plan is for him in terms of conditioning and improving moving forward?

It'd be nice if Buffalo's media spent time asking useful questions and not harping on Pegula's availability.

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06-23-2013, 01:11 PM
  #74
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Not to be forgotten...
Yes, I should've clarified that an easier system for the D-men to play should help Myers (and the rest). I just don't expect him to be a Niedermayer type, even if Rolston successfully gets him developing in that direction. Call it hockey IQ, hockey sense...whatever, I just don't think he's that sharp to be an end-to-end guy without consistently screwing up. Staying within a more simple system though, without pressure to carry the play or pinch too much, and he should be a minute eating top pair guy that can shut down a top line. Buffalo needs that and the team needs to find out if he can get there.

So Layne...don't count me as someone wanting to trade him. He was great his 1st season but teams have simply scouted him. Under Roslton I expect better, but not on the offensive side so I doubt he'll be reaching 45 pts. That doesn't mean "bust" or "trade him" to me though. If he can be a shutdown guy with 25+ mins a night he'll earn his salary back.

Gallagt, Regier hasn't mentioned anything about Myers that I know of.

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06-23-2013, 01:15 PM
  #75
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Back to Pulock, is there a serious enough weakness in his D game to pass on him at #16 (assuming Horvat, Lazar, Zadorov are gone)?

I try not to get caught up in videos, but I really like what I see - transition offense in neon lights. I wish there were compilation videos of "worst plays" to get a balanced idea.

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