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Jonathan Bernier Race Down to 3 Teams (TOR, PHI, MIN)

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Old
06-23-2013, 10:09 AM
  #826
FloridaKingsFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
Im not sure where you'd get the opinion I dont like Bernier or him being traded. I just argue the worth is going to be a lot less than some people think, due to there being no goaltender market.

I think I pretty much put the facts in chronological order. Maybe it'll be easier for you if I ask you the questions?

Does Bernier want a trade?
Did he fire his agent in the last week?
Did he hire Pat Brisson as his agent?
Does all Pat Brisson clients information hit the media through Renaud Lavoie?
Who first reported this story about all this interest in Bernier?
Did it snowball throughout North America?

It's not trivial pursuit here. It's obvious Brisson is trying to facilitate a Bernier trade. If there was considerable interest around the league, the agent wouldnt be so involved in marketing his client. It's as simple as that.

You have to be crazy to say that there is NO GOALTENDER MARKET. Do a little research Please. Most of us will take what the hockey reporters are saying over some random, unpaid guy on HF boards. It remains to be seen what Bernier's return will be, but I believe there will be alot of people surprised by how good it will be. But, we will see.

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Old
06-23-2013, 10:09 AM
  #827
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Originally Posted by LaLaLand View Post
Bernier has a much higher pedigree than Reimer, In my opinion if he is dealt to Toronto - JB45 is the full time starter by November
Reimer is only good vs Ottawa, haha

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Old
06-23-2013, 10:09 AM
  #828
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Originally Posted by LaLaLand View Post
Bernier has a much higher pedigree than Reimer, In my opinion if he is dealt to Toronto - JB45 is the full time starter by November
How exactly does Bernier have a higher pedigree?

Jonathan Bernier:
NHL - 62 GP - 2.36 GAA - .912 SV%
AHL - 115 GP - 2.19 GAA - .927 SV%
QMJHL - 148 GP - 2.72 GAA - .908 SV%

James Reimer:
NHL - 104 GP - 2.71 GAA - .915 SV%
AHL - 44 GP - 2.44 GAA - .920 SV%
WHL - 124 GP - 2.72 GAA - .912 SV%

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Old
06-23-2013, 10:10 AM
  #829
KingPuckChoo
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i find it strange that Toronto pretty much has zero confidence in Reimer despite Reimer being pretty solid

why wouldn't they focus and address Toronto's bigger weaknesses rather strengthening an area that is already very good?

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06-23-2013, 10:15 AM
  #830
LaLaLand
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
How exactly does Bernier have a higher pedigree?

Jonathan Bernier:
NHL - 62 GP - 2.36 GAA - .912 SV%
AHL - 115 GP - 2.19 GAA - .927 SV%
QMJHL - 148 GP - 2.72 GAA - .908 SV%

James Reimer:
NHL - 104 GP - 2.71 GAA - .915 SV%
AHL - 44 GP - 2.44 GAA - .920 SV%
WHL - 124 GP - 2.72 GAA - .912 SV%
you just answered you own question, plus he was an early first rounder and won the Aldege (Baz) Bastien Memorial Award in the A, I believe the year he took the monarchs to the conference finals. and much more do some research yourself

you don't have to like it, but Bernier has all the tools to be the better goalie and given the chance more than likely will be the better tendy

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06-23-2013, 10:17 AM
  #831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaLaLand View Post
Bernier has a much higher pedigree than Reimer, In my opinion if he is dealt to Toronto - JB45 is the full time starter by November
Much higher pedigree? How's that? Because of his draft position?

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06-23-2013, 10:20 AM
  #832
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Originally Posted by LaLaLand View Post
you just answered you own question
Actually he just shot down your argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaLaLand View Post
you don't have to like it, but Bernier has all the tools to be the better goalie and given the chance more than likely will be the better tendy
Well so far those tools haven't made him a better goalie.

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Old
06-23-2013, 10:21 AM
  #833
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Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
Much higher pedigree? How's that? Because of his draft position?

I've had enough, hopefully Leaf fans don't get the privilege of having Bernier in net for the next decade

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Old
06-23-2013, 10:24 AM
  #834
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Originally Posted by LaLaLand View Post
I've had enough, hopefully Leaf fans don't get the privilege of having Bernier in net for the next decade
So you had enough when you couldn't back up your claims? Okay.

Bernier might be better goalie than Reimer. He might not. It's a risk and IMHO Leafs are better off not trading for Bernier if the rumors about Bernier's price are true.

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Old
06-23-2013, 10:28 AM
  #835
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Originally Posted by LaLaLand View Post
you just answered you own question, plus he was an early first rounder and won the Aldege (Baz) Bastien Memorial Award in the A, I believe the year he took the monarchs to the conference finals. and much more do some research yourself

you don't have to like it, but Bernier has all the tools to be the better goalie and given the chance more than likely will be the better tendy
lol how exactly did I answer my own question? Their stats are nearly identical throughout their entire careers. The fact that Bernier's junior team was stacked while Reimer's was crap only makes the stats even more in Reimer's favour. Where they were drafted literally means nothing either.

Bernier has literally proven nothing to suggest he has a higher ceiling than Reimer or is currently better than Reimer.

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06-23-2013, 10:29 AM
  #836
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If Calgary were smart, they would go after Bernier.

Kipper is likely to retire. I have a hard time believing that Ramo or Berra are as good as Bernier. Calgary's other Goalie prospects are not exactly blue chip types.

Calgary has 3 1st round picks in this draft. I believe they can afford to move 1 of them. LA does not have a 1st round pick in this draft so I'm sure they would love to get one. LA does not pick until pick #57! In a draft that is deep on forwards, which is a big need for LA, it would make total sense for them to seek at least a late 1st round pick in any trade involving Bernier.

But Calgary is not a team that ever makes much sense with their decision making...

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06-23-2013, 10:45 AM
  #837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent By Design View Post

Bernier + 3rd + Muzzin


Giroux + 11th
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Originally Posted by tp71 View Post
In the words of Charlie Brown "Good grief".
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Originally Posted by Violent By Design View Post
You're right, maybe Philly adds Laughton to even it out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOilersDynasty2012 View Post
Philly adds a 6th and 7th rounder to even it out.
Thanks for the laugh.

I needed one.

Actually, I think the Flyers need to add their 2nd rounders for the next 5 years to even it out.


Last edited by spiny norman: 06-23-2013 at 02:44 PM. Reason: qdp
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Old
06-23-2013, 10:47 AM
  #838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evgeny Oliker View Post
If Calgary were smart, they would go after Bernier.

Kipper is likely to retire. I have a hard time believing that Ramo or Berra are as good as Bernier. Calgary's other Goalie prospects are not exactly blue chip types.

Calgary has 3 1st round picks in this draft. I believe they can afford to move 1 of them. LA does not have a 1st round pick in this draft so I'm sure they would love to get one. LA does not pick until pick #57! In a draft that is deep on forwards, which is a big need for LA, it would make total sense for them to seek at least a late 1st round pick in any trade involving Bernier.

But Calgary is not a team that ever makes much sense with their decision making...
I'm sure Calgary would love Bernier but I don't think the Kings are looking to trade him to a division rival. I know I wouldn't like the Kings to play against Bernier 5 times a year and potentially in the playoffs as well.

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06-23-2013, 10:48 AM
  #839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evgeny Oliker View Post
If Calgary were smart, they would go after Bernier.
From my understanding LA doesn't want Bernier traded within the division(which my belief is a huge mistake if true from a LA side since Calgary might be one of the better chances to get a good return)

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Old
06-23-2013, 10:49 AM
  #840
Evgeny Oliker
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I'm sure Calgary would love Bernier but I don't think the Kings are looking to trade him to a division rival. I know I wouldn't like the Kings to play against Bernier 5 times a year and potentially in the playoffs as well.
I think there is a major problem with what I underlined

We are talking about the Calgary Flames here

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Old
06-23-2013, 10:51 AM
  #841
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...

Quote:
Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
From my understanding LA doesn't want Bernier traded within the division(which my belief is a huge mistake if true from a LA side since Calgary might be one of the better chances to get a good return)

I agree with you, it would be a huge mistake. We are not talking about trading Crosby to a division rival here. While Bernier does have some #1 upside, I dont see him ever becoming an elite goalie like Lundqvist or Quick. So who is to say Calgary doesnt trade for or draft someone in the future who is on Bernier's level? I'm sure they could. So its not like them getting Bernier would all of a sudden offset the balance of power in that division...it wont. Calgary I'm sure will continue to suck for many more years

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06-23-2013, 10:58 AM
  #842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaLaLand View Post
Bernier has a much higher pedigree than Reimer, In my opinion if he is dealt to Toronto - JB45 is the full time starter by November
Pedigree? Making decisions based on the draft order of a draft 7 years ago seems like a bad business model.

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06-23-2013, 11:05 AM
  #843
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Originally Posted by KingPuckChoo View Post
i find it strange that Toronto pretty much has zero confidence in Reimer despite Reimer being pretty solid

why wouldn't they focus and address Toronto's bigger weaknesses rather strengthening an area that is already very good?
I'd say it's because over the past few years Reimer has shown to be a bit injury prone, and we can't risk our playoff chances by playing Scrivens for a prolonged time.

I'd be much more confident with a Reimer-Bernier tandem rather than Reimer-Scrivens

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06-23-2013, 11:08 AM
  #844
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Originally Posted by Violent By Design View Post

Bernier + 3rd + Muzzin


Giroux + 11th
I would like to add that this guy is not a Kings fan

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Old
06-23-2013, 11:33 AM
  #845
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Nobody is saying Frattin is better. It's just not like Read is some hockey god compared to Frattin. Frattin is in a very similar spot to Read, and is a couple years younger. Could argue that Frattin right now is where Read was last year. He's a top 9 NHL winger RIGHT NOW. And should get better if he can have an injury free year.
Matt Read spent his NHL rookie season scoring 24 goals. Matt Frattin struggled this season to be an NHL regular on a team that regularly employed Colton Orr and Frazer McLaren on their wings.

Get serious. You sound ridiculous making these comparisons. Carlton the Bear has more objectivity then you.

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06-23-2013, 11:40 AM
  #846
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Originally Posted by LaLaLand View Post
you just answered you own question, plus he was an early first rounder and won the Aldege (Baz) Bastien Memorial Award in the A, I believe the year he took the monarchs to the conference finals. and much more do some research yourself

you don't have to like it, but Bernier has all the tools to be the better goalie and given the chance more than likely will be the better tendy
Actually u just proved his point thanks, pedigree is BS, Reimer has shown he has what it takes , Bernier is a gamble, still unproven, the leafs have been down this road too many times (raycroft,Toskala), Cujo was decent but didn't accomplish much more than Felix Potvin did, Leafs need to stay within, keep reimer and continue to develop, use the assets to acquire a centre.

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06-23-2013, 11:47 AM
  #847
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Cool, nice being a troll eh bud?

While I don't think he's a top 10 goalie in the league, this year he finished 8th in SV% last year, and led the Leafs to their first playoffs in 9 years - with it being well established on these boards that the Leafs get outshot in a majority of their games.

Argument that he was top 10 in the league last year is pretty accurate
What about the 15 other goalies that "led their team to the playoffs?"

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06-23-2013, 11:48 AM
  #848
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Originally Posted by FloridaKingsFan View Post
You have to be crazy to say that there is NO GOALTENDER MARKET. Do a little research Please. Most of us will take what the hockey reporters are saying over some random, unpaid guy on HF boards. It remains to be seen what Bernier's return will be, but I believe there will be alot of people surprised by how good it will be. But, we will see.
Where's the market for a starting goaltender? How about you do a little research on this. If there's a team that "MIGHT" be interested, they have to move other guys out of the way. Not the easiest thing to do these days. Sure, Minn might have an interest but at what price? And that's what it's all about. Price... and if the price was willing to be paid, it would've been paid already.

I guess I'm as crazy as all the other teams that arent lining up at Lombardi's door with a Kings ransom over the last year.

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06-23-2013, 11:48 AM
  #849
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Starting to worry that Lieweke is getting involved in TML hockey operations at a level he should not be.

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06-23-2013, 11:56 AM
  #850
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Originally Posted by KingPuckChoo View Post
i find it strange that Toronto pretty much has zero confidence in Reimer despite Reimer being pretty solid

why wouldn't they focus and address Toronto's bigger weaknesses rather strengthening an area that is already very good?
If look past the numbers and actually watch Riemer play, Nonis is correct in looking for a legit goaltender.

There's a lot about Reimer's game that is excellent, and he's able to put up decent stretches, but he has two fatal flaws to his game that will only get worse the longer he's in the league and teams get to know "the book" on him.

#1) Bar none, he has the worst rebound control in the entire NHL. I can honestly say I have never seen a goaltender at the NHL level in my life that is prone to more rebounds and rebounds of a very dangerous variety. He very rarely steers pucks into the corner, instead allowing pucks to sit in the slot or the high slot and he surrenders rebounds on shots that no professional goaltender ever should (clear, unobstructed shots from a fair way out are somehow allowed to bounce off of him.) It's a serious, fatal flaw, and Nonis is right to be gravely concerned.

#2) He is a maddening inability to catch pucks. Shots to his glove hand, even shots *into* his glove somehow squirt out, and he rarely then smothers him. They usually squirt out of his glove, deflect off his glove or graze his glove that end up still in play. Again, I can't say I've ever really seen this issue at the NHL level beyond a journeyman goaltender that played a handful of games. Both of these issues are fatal flaws to an otherwise fairly solid net minder. Both of these issues stem from the same problem, a concerning lack of puck awareness. Not only does he allow dangerous rebounds, but he often appears to be the least aware of anyone on the ice as to where the puck has gone too.

This is alarming as hell, and honestly, while these issues haven't really burned him badly yet (though they certainly contributed to Boston's comeback, for example) the Leaf brass, who watch him game in and game out are absolutely right to be concerned and absolutely right to be looking for a legit option that can be Toronto's #1. Leaf fans need to have faith in Nonis, he knows what he's doing.

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