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What to do with Mikhail Grabovski?

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Old
06-22-2013, 11:39 PM
  #51
charliolemieux
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
So if McClement is better than Colborne he keeps his job.

What you want to give a lifetime contract to McClement because he turned the Leafs PK around?

He should have to compete for his job and if Colborne is better you give the job to Colborne.

How does that not make sense?
why would you dump a PK specialist that is a big reason why the PK was respectable this year?

McClement is happy on the 4th line and PK. HE is very good at what he does. You don't get rid of these kind of players.

Why would Colborne have to chase him out of town? Why not just move one to the wing?

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06-23-2013, 12:45 AM
  #52
WestCoastLeafs
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Originally Posted by disgruntleddave View Post
Most people seem to be forgetting that teams are allowed to retain some salary in a trade.

Grabo's main knock against him is that his salary is too high. He still has value as a player. Trade him and retain a bit of salary and you're good.

If we manage to get someone for the 1C, especially if bozak goes, I fully expect grabo to be traded and don't see it unlikely that we'll retain something like 1M of his contract.
You retain the cap space along with the salary, so this doesn't really get you too much further ahead.

Example: say Grabo's "real" value is 3.5M. You retain 2M to make him tradeable, which frees up enough cap space to sign (wait for it) a 3.5M player.

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06-23-2013, 12:46 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Perhaps the best idea is to not re-sign Bozak, move Kadri to the first line and let Grabovski play an offensive role on the 2nd. line.

Next year see if:
a) Kadri is a #1, #2, or #3 center
b) Grabovski is a #1, #2, or #3 center
c) Colborne can force McClement out of town
or to the wing anyway.

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06-23-2013, 12:56 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by nuck View Post
It is absolutely funny. Grabo was outscored by Stastny by 1 point in the two years prior to the strike, and outscored Weiss by 3 points. All three kind of sucked this season.
I think people want to find someone who has better chemistry with Kessel. I don't know if Weiss/Stastny would have it or not, but Grabo sure doesn't - he tunnel visions bigtime.

In my ideal world, we get a big #1C to play a cycling offensive game with JVR and somebody. Then put Kessel and Kadri together on the second line. (Your 3 best players don't have to be on the same line.)

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06-23-2013, 01:42 AM
  #55
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Honestly, I wish the Leafs would just keep him - I think he's a great player. imo, he got a bit of a raw deal this year.

If the Leafs were getting rid of him, I'd love him on the Hawks...the main problem is they can't absorb his aav at this point w/ the cap coming down...so T.O. would have to take back salary - which I'm sure they don't want to do. On top of that, I don't see Chicago and Toronto as lining up as great trading partners.

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06-23-2013, 02:06 AM
  #56
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He is a good player, just doesn't fit Carlyle's system.

Trade is most likely

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06-23-2013, 04:09 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
why would you dump a PK specialist that is a big reason why the PK was respectable this year?

McClement is happy on the 4th line and PK. HE is very good at what he does. You don't get rid of these kind of players.

Why would Colborne have to chase him out of town? Why not just move one to the wing?
I would keep McClement around long-term. He is an excellent defensive zone/ PK specialist and is perfect on the fourth line.

As for Colborne, I think he has the potential to be a top six guy. He is a skilled guy, and if we take our time, we'll benefit greatly.

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06-23-2013, 04:15 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by UsernameWasTaken View Post
Honestly, I wish the Leafs would just keep him - I think he's a great player. imo, he got a bit of a raw deal this year.

If the Leafs were getting rid of him, I'd love him on the Hawks...the main problem is they can't absorb his aav at this point w/ the cap coming down...so T.O. would have to take back salary - which I'm sure they don't want to do. On top of that, I don't see Chicago and Toronto as lining up as great trading partners.
Sometimes I want to see Grabovski bought out and playing on Detroit. He would be excellent on the team. We're going to regret it when he returns to the 29 goal, 58 point Grabs that was signed for $5.5 million. If we gave him a full season with stronger wingers, we'd obviously see much better performance.

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06-23-2013, 06:41 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by The_Chosen_One View Post
Sometimes I want to see Grabovski bought out and playing on Detroit. He would be excellent on the team. We're going to regret it when he returns to the 29 goal, 58 point Grabs that was signed for $5.5 million. If we gave him a full season with stronger wingers, we'd obviously see much better performance.
He was good with JVR at the start of the season. The real dip happened when Kadri moved up. I think if need be he could be good with JVR and Kessel at least try it.

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06-23-2013, 07:15 AM
  #60
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Keep him around this year and if he's not performing by the trade deadline, see what we can get for him.

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06-23-2013, 07:43 AM
  #61
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Unless we're upgrading you keep him

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06-23-2013, 09:01 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Kbs View Post
I thought I was the only one who noticed those. How often does Bozak throw a between the legs pass that misses every single player (including opposing players)? It's even worse when the play-by-play guys say the player wasn't ready for the pass like it's their fault Bozak just tossed the puck to no one in particular.
More often then not it sends the other team a nice odd man rush.

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06-23-2013, 09:03 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by The_Chosen_One View Post
I would keep McClement around long-term. He is an excellent defensive zone/ PK specialist and is perfect on the fourth line.

As for Colborne, I think he has the potential to be a top six guy. He is a skilled guy, and if we take our time, we'll benefit greatly.
McClement had a bad playoffs vs the Bruins. Their fourth line owned him 5x5. The problem with him is that he gets by on 100% effort all the time. In the regular season this is great when alot of the other players are coasting. In the playoffs everyone is 100% so he is less great:
http://somekindofninja.com/nhl/usage...Update+Results

Note the great possesion numbers for Mac with the same usage.

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06-23-2013, 09:49 AM
  #64
nuck
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Originally Posted by WestCoastLeafs View Post
You retain the cap space along with the salary, so this doesn't really get you too much further ahead.

Example: say Grabo's "real" value is 3.5M. You retain 2M to make him tradeable, which frees up enough cap space to sign (wait for it) a 3.5M player.
But its not going to be just a 1 for 1 deal because you are buying down his contract, and increasing his value.

If you retained the maximum 50% you would be offering a player who's 82 game scoring before this season was 50, 48, 58, and 56pts at salary of $2.75 million. You would have 29 teams lined up for your "cap relief" program and his market value would be higher than if you were trading him after his 58 point season.

Then you go out and sign a defensive forward at $2.75 which is almost double what McClement cost and he fills Grabo's role more perfectly because he is a checking guy, and not a miscast offensive forward, plus you have a 1st round pick in your pocket, or some similar valued asset. It's that asset that makes spending the money a workable idea.

The above is an extreme example, and I am not saying they would want to retain the max salary, but every significant bit they do keep adds to his trade value. That is just another way they can use their free cap space, and a year from now, with no Komi, Grabo, Liles, Army or Tucker, they would have no bad money left on the books, so a million or two would have no significant affect on their operations.

A club signing Weiss or trading for Stastny is going to pay a lot more than $4 million, and would still be doing this in the hopes that last season was just a bad dream. A club signing Ribeiro will be paying well above $5 million so they will get the better guy but at a huge premium. With this years cap there are a lot more clubs that can afford a $4 million dollar guy than a $6 million guy. There are some clubs with center problems that are absolutely up against it, and a $3.5 Grabo would look like gift to them.

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06-23-2013, 10:12 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
So if McClement is better than Colborne he keeps his job.

What you want to give a lifetime contract to McClement because he turned the Leafs PK around?

He should have to compete for his job and if Colborne is better you give the job to Colborne.

How does that not make sense?
Ulf - while I agree with most of your posts I think when you said run mclement out of town you went a little overboard. I think you should have said relegate him to the fourth line. There is no way in hell colborne is going to be able to force mclement
off the team. IMO watching colborne last year he is just a slow big man who doesnt use his size. Really I was not impressed with him.

But hey if he goes to camp and wins the third line center job then good for him.
Just not at the expense of mclement off the team

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06-23-2013, 10:19 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Aplayaz2000 View Post
playoffs

he was a force!
Grabovski was far from a force in the playoffs. He finished with a -10 rating and on some of those goals against he only had to make a simple play to get the puck out of trouble. If skating 100 miles an hour into the other teams end gettting knocked down on your ass and getting up and doing this over and over and not scoring does
not make you a force. It just makes you look like a guy skating 100 miles an hour getting knocked on his ass over and over.

To be fair to grabovski and burke - he was signed when the cap was 70M and we needed to lock up a center because there were none really available at free
agency. Hindsight is 20-20 so no one could predict the lockout or the decrease in salary cap. If the cap was still at 70M we wouldnt be so worried about his cap hit at this time.

We definitely have to trade him and go for an upgrade.

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06-23-2013, 10:21 AM
  #67
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He had a good playoff performance, he really stood out so hopefully some GM's have taken notice. He has value and can be traded, the question is; at what price.

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06-23-2013, 10:29 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by notdoneyet View Post
IMO watching colborne last year he is just a slow big man who doesnt use his size. Really I was not impressed with him.
Strongly disagree

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06-23-2013, 10:33 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by notdoneyet View Post
Grabovski was far from a force in the playoffs. He finished with a -10 rating and on some of those goals against he only had to make a simple play to get the puck out of trouble. If skating 100 miles an hour into the other teams end gettting knocked down on your ass and getting up and doing this over and over and not scoring does
not make you a force. It just makes you look like a guy skating 100 miles an hour getting knocked on his ass over and over.
Strongly agree. If we don't get another top 6 center, then I give Grabo next year to rebound, but that will largely depend on whether Carlyle changes his role from this year.

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06-23-2013, 10:34 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by sommervr View Post
McClement had a bad playoffs vs the Bruins. Their fourth line owned him 5x5. The problem with him is that he gets by on 100% effort all the time. In the regular season this is great when alot of the other players are coasting. In the playoffs everyone is 100% so he is less great:
http://somekindofninja.com/nhl/usage...Update+Results

Note the great possesion numbers for Mac with the same usage.
Thornton-Campbell-Paille is a much better unit than than Orr-McClement-Komarov. All good skaters (Thorntons okay), and can cycle well. McClement can take faceoffs well, but I think he looks god on Grabos wing. Although, thats why Grabo doesn't look good. No offense wingers.

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Old
06-23-2013, 10:35 AM
  #71
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Keep Grabo around. Guy deserves a second chance. maybe if CarLOL put him in offensive situations, he would produce. I'd even say to try him on the wing with Kadri at C. Hes a top 6 forward, not a 3rd liner playing defesnive minutes. If youre not gonna play him to his strengths, he obviously wont succeed.


JVR - Weiss - Kessel
Lupul - Kadri - Grabovski
Kulemin - Bozak - Frattin
D'amigo - McClement - Orr

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06-23-2013, 10:38 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by MakeTheIronSing View Post
he could play 10 games to start the season and fans could completely forget about his lack of offence last year.

i wish people would stop the rabble against this guy. from zero to hero around these parts, its awful.
I doubt it

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06-23-2013, 11:02 AM
  #73
VoicexOfxReason
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What to do with Grabo. Hmmm, play him in the top six and watch him hit 50 points again while being the hardest worker with the most hustle?

But that would be too easy wouldnt it.

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06-23-2013, 11:29 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by VoicexOfxReason View Post
What to do with Grabo. Hmmm, play him in the top six and watch him hit 50 points again while being the hardest worker with the most hustle?

But that would be too easy wouldnt it.
That would be great for Grabovski. Unfortunately, it hurts the team.

Do we do what's best for a player, or what's best for the team?

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06-23-2013, 11:34 AM
  #75
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If we can acquire a top 2 line center in Weiss, Rib, Roy or Stastny in a deal that makes sense then trade Grabo and look to get a third line center with a lesser cap hit in return (Gaustad, Stajan, Ott). We might not be able to get the 3rd line center we want in return but trading Grabo to a team like Buffalo, Calgary who have all kinds of cap space and would have to drastically overpay for any quality free agent to play for them shouldn't be a problem. We just might get little to nothing in return except cap relief.

If we can't acquire a top 2 line center on a deal that makes sense, just keep Grabo but promote him to a scoring line and look to acquire a 3rd line center with Zubrus being the main free agent I'd target. Zubrus/Colborne can switch between playing LW and C. Colborne also needs to earn his minutes and not just be handed a spot. At times he might need to shift up a line if one of our top 2 centers get hurt or he might benefit from the odd game in the press box. McClement would be the 4th line center.

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