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The Value of an enforcer on the Pens 2013-2014 team

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Old
06-23-2013, 01:30 AM
  #151
billybudd
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Originally Posted by lastcupever75 View Post
i know what you're saying, but it does still happen on occasion.

last year an ottawa senator jumped brian boyle getting some retribution for a dirty hit earlier in the series.
think it was carkner
He was also assessed a 5 minute penalty (or was it 7?), suspended (which was a crime, imo...he did nothing to Boyle that Boyle hadn't done to Karlsson first), not re-signed and Ottawa lost the series, so it didn't really do any good from the perspective of anybody.

The real retribution for Boyle's bullying of Karlsson was when Chris Neil took him out of the series on a legal (if clearly an intent to injure, which is never, ever called) hit. Rangers may have won the series, but Boyle got knocked so loopy on that one play he hasn't been an effective player since.

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06-23-2013, 04:07 AM
  #152
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Not a big fan of the enforcer in todays NHL.

I'm a big fan of big, tough guys that can play hockey and fight when called upon.

Bickell, Clowe, Clarkson, Neil etc.

Glass has the heart to do it, but not the mind or skills.


Last edited by SidTheKid8787: 06-23-2013 at 04:29 AM.
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06-23-2013, 06:21 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by MichiganWolverines View Post
I would prefer to see Engelland stay as a defenseman. Hopefully he can play like he did during the 2011-2012 season.
I would too. But if its between Bortuzzo, Engelland and Glass sitting in the press box, I want Glass up there every time even though that means we have 7 D. I would only expect occasional shifts as a 4th liner. Ideally we'd replace Glass on the 4th line with a more permanent option. But with how few minutes a pure enforcer gets, I would rather go with Engo as a 7th D instead of playing a guy like Mac.

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06-23-2013, 01:48 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I would too. But if its between Bortuzzo, Engelland and Glass sitting in the press box, I want Glass up there every time even though that means we have 7 D. I would only expect occasional shifts as a 4th liner. Ideally we'd replace Glass on the 4th line with a more permanent option. But with how few minutes a pure enforcer gets, I would rather go with Engo as a 7th D instead of playing a guy like Mac.
Fair enough.

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06-23-2013, 02:18 PM
  #155
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After seeing Goon in its entirety I would like to sign Glatt.


Although if we trade LaFlamme maybe it's not a good idea. Like cheese and hamburgers those two.


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06-23-2013, 03:38 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
After seeing Goon in its entirety I would like to sign Glatt.


Although if we trade LaFlamme maybe it's not a good idea. Like cheese and hamburgers those two.

Goon was a surprisingly good movie. The scene where Ogilvey has to fight Rhea because Glatt is suspended definitely brings back those Kelly Buchberger memories.

"Let's go.."
"C'mon Gord, we both know how this ends."

I'd like Pens to get someone who can agitate more than an outright enforcer at this point. Despite what you'll read elsewhere, this team needs to be way more annoying to play against.

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06-23-2013, 04:04 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
After seeing Goon in its entirety I would like to sign Glatt.


Although if we trade LaFlamme maybe it's not a good idea. Like cheese and hamburgers those two.

LaFlamme is Letang's doppelganger.

+1 for Goon. I've seen that movie about 20 times and pick up new stuff all the time. Evgeni and Oleg, the two Russian brothers kill me every time. I think of them and think of what the Kostitsyn brothers probably did in Montreal

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06-23-2013, 04:10 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
LaFlamme is Letang's doppelganger.

+1 for Goon. I've seen that movie about 20 times and pick up new stuff all the time. Evgeni and Oleg, the two Russian brothers kill me every time. I think of them and think of what the Kostitsyn brothers probably did in Montreal
except LeFlamme knows he's a forward

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06-23-2013, 04:10 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Zen Arcade View Post
Goon was a surprisingly good movie. The scene where Ogilvey has to fight Rhea because Glatt is suspended definitely brings back those Kelly Buchberger memories.

"Let's go.."
"C'mon Gord, we both know how this ends."

I'd like Pens to get someone who can agitate more than an outright enforcer at this point. Despite what you'll read elsewhere, this team needs to be way more annoying to play against.
Agreed. I'd take a guy like Brad Marchand all day on the Pens over some guy that can fight.

Not sure pest wise who would be available. Possibly Clutterbuck, Burrows, maybe Ott. Shero always liked to say that his goal is to design a team that's hard to play against. I'd argue each of the past few seasons, we've been getting softer each year.

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06-23-2013, 04:15 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post

Not sure pest wise who would be available. Possibly Clutterbuck, Burrows, maybe Ott. Shero always liked to say that his goal is to design a team that's hard to play against. I'd argue each of the past few seasons, we've been getting softer each year.
Yeah, the bottom six used to be full of guys that were miserable to play against:

Ruutu, Petrovicky, Rupp, Thorburn, etc.

Now it's kind of vanilla, Maxim Lapierre would be my main target for a bottom six pest role. He's a UFA, he's fairly versatile and he wouldn't be that expensive. Matt Hendricks would be another option.

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06-23-2013, 04:19 PM
  #161
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I keep saying it over and over again but one of this team's biggest problems is that their bottom six is completely stale and lacks identity. It just seems like kind of a hodge-podge. The fourth line, in particular is just sort of... there. And yes... the fourth line does matter.

Oh... and Goon is a surprisingly excellent movie.

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06-23-2013, 04:25 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Zen Arcade View Post
Yeah, the bottom six used to be full of guys that were miserable to play against:

Ruutu, Petrovicky, Rupp, Thorburn, etc.

Now it's kind of vanilla, Maxim Lapierre would be my main target for a bottom six pest role. He's a UFA, he's fairly versatile and he wouldn't be that expensive. Matt Hendricks would be another option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindWillyMcHurt View Post
I keep saying it over and over again but one of this team's biggest problems is that their bottom six is completely stale and lacks identity. It just seems like kind of a hodge-podge. The fourth line, in particular is just sort of... there. And yes... the fourth line does matter.

Oh... and Goon is a surprisingly excellent movie.
Agreed. Add in Clutterbuck and Lappierre. Let Sill battle for a spot. Boom, I like our bottom 6 a lot more.

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06-23-2013, 04:36 PM
  #163
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Jokinen (2.1M)-Sutter (2.06M)-Clutterbuck (2M)
Hendricks (1.1M)-Lappierre (1M)-Vitale (550K)

too expensive?

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06-23-2013, 04:41 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Crafton View Post
Jokinen (2.1M)-Sutter (2.06M)-Clutterbuck (2M)
Hendricks (1.1M)-Lappierre (1M)-Vitale (550K)

too expensive?
I don't think so. Seems reasonble $ wise to me. Our bottom 6 is a weakness on our team. We are soff to play against.

I'd rather have Jokinen at C to take faceoffs though.

I'm not sold on Sutter yet. If we could find a way to trade for Ott, I'd move Sutter.

Jokinen - Ott - Clutterbuck
Hendricks - Lapierre - Vitale

This would make me feel much better

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06-23-2013, 04:43 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Crafton View Post
Jokinen (2.1M)-Sutter (2.06M)-Clutterbuck (2M)
Hendricks (1.1M)-Lappierre (1M)-Vitale (550K)

too expensive?
I think we can make it work

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06-23-2013, 06:23 PM
  #166
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Look what Bickell is doing for Toews and Kane. With him on Chara's case, physically playing him, and getting played, game in and after the whistle he is both wearing Chara down and has his attention...creating operating space for his linemates that would otherwise not be there, and taking the cheapshots from Chara that would otherwise be wearing on the other 2.

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06-23-2013, 06:25 PM
  #167
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Look what Bickell is doing for Toews and Kane. With him on Chara's case, physically playing him, and getting played, game in and after the whistle he is both wearing Chara down and has his attention...creating operating space for his linemates that would otherwise not be there, and taking the cheapshots from Chara that would otherwise be wearing on the other 2.
so you're saying we should get someone like Clarkson even if on paper he isn't as good as a guy like Iginla?

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06-23-2013, 07:57 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
so you're saying we should get someone like Clarkson even if on paper he isn't as good as a guy like Iginla?
I'm saying that line, Toews, Kane, and Bickell, is working pretty well.

I'm not sure Iginla, for example, could play the Bickell role as well as Bickell, or even that that would be his best use, just commenting on the type of role player that can help the stars operate. Toews has still been fairly physical, but in a manageable way, and high minutes Chara is starting to wear down.

Bickell has been extremely smart about it. Lucic challenged him after he pounded Chara into the boards right in front of the Bruins bench (blatant interference on Lucic's part, and the NHL always ignores that...WWE style...but I digress) and Bickell completely ignored him and didn't take the bait. The point being that Chara was the guy he was softening up, and spreading it out between Lucic, who is also a key player, and Chara, was not in Chicago's best interests, especially for his two marquee linemates.

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06-23-2013, 08:02 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
so you're saying we should get someone like Clarkson even if on paper he isn't as good as a guy like Iginla?
LOL. It wouldn't matter if we had Clarkson or Iginla if Bylsma doesn't at least put one of the grinder guys on each of the top 2 lines

I don't understand what is so hard for Bylsma to have the lines Dupuis - Sid - Iginla and Kunitz - Malkin - Neal.

Each line has a grinder - star - sniper.

Also, all this crap about Iginla slowing down Sid, give me an effing break. Guerin skated like he had weights in his skates. Iginla is definitely no slower than him and we won the cup with Sid playing with Guerin.

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06-23-2013, 08:19 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by BlindWillyMcHurt View Post
I keep saying it over and over again but one of this team's biggest problems is that their bottom six is completely stale and lacks identity. It just seems like kind of a hodge-podge. The fourth line, in particular is just sort of... there. And yes... the fourth line does matter.

Oh... and Goon is a surprisingly excellent movie.
people always said i was foolish when i was upset when the likes of Rupp and Asham were let go....Asham wasn't even offered a deal...whaaaat?

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06-23-2013, 08:20 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
LOL. It wouldn't matter if we had Clarkson or Iginla if Bylsma doesn't at least put one of the grinder guys on each of the top 2 lines

I don't understand what is so hard for Bylsma to have the lines Dupuis - Sid - Iginla and Kunitz - Malkin - Neal.

Each line has a grinder - star - sniper.

Also, all this crap about Iginla slowing down Sid, give me an effing break. Guerin skated like he had weights in his skates. Iginla is definitely no slower than him and we won the cup with Sid playing with Guerin.
I agree with every word of this post. Dupuis may be able to be a 3rd wheel in the top 6 with a good compliment on the other wing. We haven't seen him in that setup since Hossa left. Actually, scratch that. Dupuis was excellent in that role when he played with Jussi and Morrow Obviously, that line isn't the answer as a top 6 line. But I think its a fair example of what Dupuis can be in the right situation compared to what Dupuis was in Bylsma's playoff setup.

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06-23-2013, 08:29 PM
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Arcade View Post
Goon was a surprisingly good movie. The scene where Ogilvey has to fight Rhea because Glatt is suspended definitely brings back those Kelly Buchberger memories.

"Let's go.."
"C'mon Gord, we both know how this ends."
Haha. Good parallel reference.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
LaFlamme is Letang's doppelganger.
There is a certain resemblance.

Quote:
+1 for Goon. I've seen that movie about 20 times and pick up new stuff all the time. Evgeni and Oleg, the two Russian brothers kill me every time. I think of them and think of what the Kostitsyn brothers probably did in Montreal
I saw it for the first time the other night and heard about it for the first time on here a couple months ago. I had pretty low expectations but it was damn funny / had me laughing out loud several times.

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06-23-2013, 08:31 PM
  #173
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so you're saying we should get someone like Clarkson even if on paper he isn't as good as a guy like Iginla?
Not to answer someone else's question but the big difference is 29 vs. 35 and slowing. For the same money Clarkson probably would produce just as much if not more, and he's a more hard-nosed player than Iggy / would make it tougher on teams liek Boston.

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06-23-2013, 08:44 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Not to answer someone else's question but the big difference is 29 vs. 35 and slowing. For the same money Clarkson probably would produce just as much if not more, and he's a more hard-nosed player than Iggy / would make it tougher on teams liek Boston.
I think its fair to say that he'd produce less in the regular season even. And I'm completely OK with that. For the same price, I'd take Clarkson without hesitating. As for the bolded, I think he's doing more than slowing. He's weakened too. If you can't win races you need to be able to win battles. Iggy can't do either at this point.

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06-23-2013, 09:12 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Crosbyfan View Post
Look what Bickell is doing for Toews and Kane. With him on Chara's case, physically playing him, and getting played, game in and after the whistle he is both wearing Chara down and has his attention...creating operating space for his linemates that would otherwise not be there, and taking the cheapshots from Chara that would otherwise be wearing on the other 2.
$$$$

By the same token, you can say the same about lucic and Horton doing for kreci

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