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Trading Up III: Does Anyone Have Incriminating Photos Of Burnaby Joe?

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Old
06-23-2013, 12:16 PM
  #76
stokes84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SECRET SQUIRREL View Post
Remember a while back when a bunch of us wanted ROR and we were all willing to overpay for him and you argued with us? Welcome to the club, better late then never brah. Players like that win you games when they really matter, hopefully we load up on them!
I forgot to add this before, but, players like Pat Kane win you games when they really matter. It's still about high end skill, no matter how much the NHL doesn't want it to be.

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06-23-2013, 12:36 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
I forgot to add this before, but, players like Pat Kane win you games when they really matter. It's still about high end skill, no matter how much the NHL doesn't want it to be.
You think? Pat Kane was a first overall pick, of course he should be an impact player that wins you games. That doesn't nullify the fact that players like Bergeron and O'Reilly are incredibly valuable even if they will never be point per game players or have "high end" offensive skills. What they do without the puck on their sticks is what makes those players so valuable.

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06-23-2013, 01:18 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
Back to Pulock, is there a serious enough weakness in his D game to pass on him at #16
Only if a guy slips unexpectedly.

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06-23-2013, 01:45 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
I forgot to add this before, but, players like Pat Kane win you games when they really matter. It's still about high end skill, no matter how much the NHL doesn't want it to be.
your indirect comparison of Kane to Ennis is noted

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06-23-2013, 02:20 PM
  #80
Rob Paxon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
Back to Pulock, is there a serious enough weakness in his D game to pass on him at #16 (assuming Horvat, Lazar, Zadorov are gone)?

I try not to get caught up in videos, but I really like what I see - transition offense in neon lights. I wish there were compilation videos of "worst plays" to get a balanced idea.
I wish more people with access to full games made shift videos of players. That's the best way to do it. Every shift from a game.

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06-23-2013, 02:21 PM
  #81
Rob Paxon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
I forgot to add this before, but, players like Pat Kane win you games when they really matter. It's still about high end skill, no matter how much the NHL doesn't want it to be.
Kane's more than high end skill, though. He has elite hockey IQ, vision, and composure. That's what lets his skill shine through always. Every team needs high-end skill guys, though.

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06-23-2013, 02:36 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Myers Offensive game is being severely underrated due to one bad season.Myers is a good offensive defensemen.He puts up a lot of ES points and has one of the shots for a dman in the league.It isn't necessarily hard but Myers is able to always get his shot through and into the net.He needs to shoot more.

Since Myers rookie year, over the last 4 seasons Myers actually has the 4th best shooting % for dmen from 2009-2013.2/3rds of his points have come at ES.If our PP can ever improve then Myers will return to the 45+ point dman we know he can be.

As for trading Myers, anything less then a top 3 pick is not worth the return.This team hasn't had a true franchise #1 dman the whole 16 years Regier has been here and people want to trade the only guy who has the tools and potential to be that guy.He is 23 years old but yet people want to trade him to "rebuild"? There are no dmen in our pipeline that have the overall skillset that Myers has.Myers is an all situation guy that has shown he can put up 40+ points.One season doesn't erase the 3 previous ones.
Yeah. I disagree. He was lights out as rookie. Regressed a little as a sophomore but finished with a great series against Philly. Expected a lot from him in 2012 but was fairly mediocre and injured most of the year. Then last year he was a baby giraffe.

Myers isn't a no #1 dman. Doesn't have the IQ for it. Skates well for a big man, but is there anything else you can say he does well? He's looks horrifically awkward at times, doesn't have a great shot, has to manufacture toughness, isn't great positionally.

I don't care that he's only 23. He's played 4 seasons, and even though Chara took longer to emerge, the only reason we even use that comparison still is because they're both ****ing tall. Other than that, they have nothing in common, as Myers plays more like Brian Rafalski. I'd trade him for a top 15 pick right now. Draft a centerman, and 2 of Ristoleinen/Nurse/Zadorov. I think we'd be better for it.

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06-23-2013, 02:47 PM
  #83
Rob Paxon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afinogretzky View Post
Yeah. I disagree. He was lights out as rookie. Regressed a little as a sophomore but finished with a great series against Philly. Expected a lot from him in 2012 but was fairly mediocre and injured most of the year. Then last year he was a baby giraffe.

Myers isn't a no #1 dman. Doesn't have the IQ for it. Skates well for a big man, but is there anything else you can say he does well? He's looks horrifically awkward at times, doesn't have a great shot, has to manufacture toughness, isn't great positionally.

I don't care that he's only 23. He's played 4 seasons, and even though Chara took longer to emerge, the only reason we even use that comparison still is because they're both ****ing tall. Other than that, they have nothing in common, as Myers plays more like Brian Rafalski. I'd trade him for a top 15 pick right now. Draft a centerman, and 2 of Ristoleinen/Nurse/Zadorov. I think we'd be better for it.
Myers had a bad stretch last season then got over it and started on a very good stretch, then he got hurt. If it wasn't such a short season the most likely turn of events would've been that the bad stretch ended up being something like 1/4 of the season. We've seen it happen before with slow starts for him. That's not to excuse his awful stretches but it doesn't make him awful overall.

Myers does have a good shot. He does a better job creating offense with it than the vast majority of defensemen.

Chara didn't play very tough when he came into the league and wasn't half the skater Myers is. Not that I think Myers will end up anything like Chara.

Myers right now is a top 4 defenseman. Most of the players in the top 15 will not become more than top 4 defensemen. There's nothing remotely uncommon in Myer's career path. I have questions about his hockey IQ as well, let's face it... it isn't ever going to be great. Maybe he won't be a #1 elite franchise defenseman, but it's possible, and he could easily become a very good top-pairing defenseman.

Giving him up for poor value is a major mistake. He's the most valuable asset in our entire organization. If you can't maximize it, then you're ruining the franchise.

Finally, can we stop overrating his rookie season? He wasn't great defensively and has on the whole improved physically and defensively (when his head's in the game). He produced more offense and had a lesser role defensively thanks to Tallinder.


Last edited by Rob Paxon: 06-23-2013 at 02:55 PM.
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06-23-2013, 02:52 PM
  #84
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Id trade him up for the 5th but I have no problem keeping him to see how he, as well as others on this team, does under another coach.

Ruff sucked. No game plan, relied on wrong players, squares in round holes, etc. hopefully, he rebounds

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06-23-2013, 03:25 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post

Myers right now is a top 4 defenseman. Most of the players in the top 15 will not become more than top 4 defensemen.
Myers when playing well is a top 4 defenseman. Myers when playing poorly is not an NHL defenseman. How do you know Risto, Nurse, Zadarov, etc won't be top 4 d-men? I've seen reports saying every one of them could be top pairing guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post

Giving him up for poor value is a major mistake.
Who's giving him up for poor value? Is someone here suggesting we dump him a couple of fringe prospects? In my opinion, Myers will always be an underachiever who never quite gets it, so I'd be trying to trade him now before this downsloping trend gets even worse.

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06-23-2013, 03:46 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afinogretzky View Post
Myers when playing well is a top 4 defenseman. Myers when playing poorly is not an NHL defenseman. How do you know Risto, Nurse, Zadarov, etc won't be top 4 d-men? I've seen reports saying every one of them could be top pairing guys.
Myers not an NHL defenseman? Myers' baseline play is that of a top 4 defenseman.

What I said implied Risto, Nurse, and Zadorov WILL be top 4 defensemen, they're just not more likely than Myers to be more than that. I want this team to draft one of Risto or Zadorov, by the way.

Saying you'd trade Myers for, say, Ristolainen, is one thing (crazy, but whatever). Saying you'd just trade him for a top 15 pick when you could easily not end up with any of those 3 players or a prospect even remotely as good as Myers is just ridiculous, sorry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Afinogretzky View Post
Who's giving him up for poor value? Is someone here suggesting we dump him a couple of fringe prospects? In my opinion, Myers will always be an underachiever who never quite gets it, so I'd be trying to trade him now before this downsloping trend gets even worse.
You are. Trading him for a top 15 pick is poor value. Myers as an underachiever is better than the return you're talking about, yet if he ceases to be an underachiever...

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06-23-2013, 04:07 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
Myers not an NHL defenseman? Myers' baseline play is that of a top 4 defenseman.

What I said implied Risto, Nurse, and Zadorov WILL be top 4 defensemen, they're just not more likely than Myers to be more than that. I want this team to draft one of Risto or Zadorov, by the way.

Saying you'd trade Myers for, say, Ristolainen, is one thing (crazy, but whatever). Saying you'd just trade him for a top 15 pick when you could easily not end up with any of those 3 players or a prospect even remotely as good as Myers is just ridiculous, sorry.



You are. Trading him for a top 15 pick is poor value. Myers as an underachiever is better than the return you're talking about, yet if he ceases to be an underachiever...
we just disagree. for the majority of last year, it was considered a success if myers wasn't directly responsible for 2 goals allowed each game. everytime he stepped on the ice it gave me flashbacks to watching jillson, paetsch, janik against the hurricanes. my point is that - when he's playing at his worst, it looks like he has no business being in the NHL. i don't see how you, or anyone else who watched every game last year, could possibly disagree with that. at his worst, myers can single handedly give games away - it happened 4 or 5 times this past season.

don't forget how our team defense improved dramatically when myers went down, and was replaced by ruhwedel, pardy, pysyk, and those guys. it was a sobering moment when you realized they were all more reliable than our "future Norris trophy winner."

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06-23-2013, 04:11 PM
  #88
Rob Paxon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afinogretzky View Post
we just disagree. for the majority of last year, it was considered a success if myers wasn't directly responsible for 2 goals allowed each game. everytime he stepped on the ice it gave me flashbacks to watching jillson, paetsch, janik against the hurricanes. my point is that - when he's playing at his worst, it looks like he has no business being in the NHL. i don't see how you, or anyone else who watched every game last year, could possibly disagree with that. at his worst, myers can single handedly give games away - it happened 4 or 5 times this past season.

don't forget how our team defense improved dramatically when myers went down, and was replaced by ruhwedel, pardy, pysyk, and those guys. it was a sobering moment when you realized they were all more reliable than our "future Norris trophy winner."
Team defense improved dramatically when we got rid of Regehr and Leopold

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06-23-2013, 04:39 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Afinogretzky View Post
Yeah. I disagree. He was lights out as rookie. Regressed a little as a sophomore but finished with a great series against Philly. Expected a lot from him in 2012 but was fairly mediocre and injured most of the year. Then last year he was a baby giraffe.

Myers isn't a no #1 dman. Doesn't have the IQ for it. Skates well for a big man, but is there anything else you can say he does well? He's looks horrifically awkward at times, doesn't have a great shot, has to manufacture toughness, isn't great positionally.

I don't care that he's only 23. He's played 4 seasons, and even though Chara took longer to emerge, the only reason we even use that comparison still is because they're both ****ing tall. Other than that, they have nothing in common, as Myers plays more like Brian Rafalski. I'd trade him for a top 15 pick right now. Draft a centerman, and 2 of Ristoleinen/Nurse/Zadorov. I think we'd be better for it.
Whats wrong with Brian Rafalski? Trading Myers for a top 15 pick is just dumb.

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06-23-2013, 04:51 PM
  #90
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As much as I love myers, when he's playing bad he's not an NHL defenseman, he's just a disaster waiting to happen

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06-23-2013, 04:56 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
As much as I love myers, when he's playing bad he's not an NHL defenseman, he's just a disaster waiting to happen
I agree. There isn't much middle ground with him. It's either really good or really, really bad.

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06-23-2013, 04:58 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
Darcy Regier has said their are 6 elite players available, MacKinnon, Jones, Barkov and Drouin are almost assured to be in that group. The other two could potentially be Lindholm, Monahan, Nichushkin. Seeing as Devine stated that Nichushkin plays like a Malkin and said in his interview that after Nichushkin you would have Lindholm that makes me think that the Sabres elite 6 are

MacKinnon
Jones
Drouin
Barkov
Nichushkin
Lindholm

If Lindholm and Nichushkin are on that list then Monahan should be there as well. If they truly believe these are the top 6 then you could either stay at 8 and hope Nichushkin is there or move up to 5 and have your pick between Lindholm, Nichushkin and even Monahan. Carolina trading out of that pick seems like a strong possibility. It probably takes 8 + 52 + LAs 2014 2nd to make Carolina budge, they want a top 4 Dman in return but won't get it.
What interview did he say this in? Not saying he didn't say it, I just have never heard him say anything about Nichushkin and I'd be interested in listening to what he said.


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I still don't want ROR. I want guys that can skate.
When was the last time you saw him play? His skating has improved tenfold since he entered the league. I wouldn't classify him as a good/great skater, but the improvement he's made since his rookie year is huge.

Also, David Krejci is in all likelihood going to lead the playoffs in points and potentially goals, and he's a guy who's not considered a very good skater. It's something you can overcome with good hockey IQ, which O'Reilly definitely has.


Last edited by Sean McG: 06-23-2013 at 05:04 PM.
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06-23-2013, 05:06 PM
  #93
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On WGR he said "Nichushkin plays like a Malkin"

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06-23-2013, 05:06 PM
  #94
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Whats wrong with Brian Rafalski? Trading Myers for a top 15 pick is just dumb.
Exactly. Rafalski won Cups with two different organizations and was a key contributor to those wins.

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06-23-2013, 05:08 PM
  #95
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Whats wrong with Brian Rafalski? Trading Myers for a top 15 pick is just dumb.
lol i know right? is there anything dumber than getting a player like Bo Horvat for your awkward, goofball #4 dman who is insanely overpaid? sounds like the dumbest thing i've ever heard.

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06-23-2013, 05:11 PM
  #96
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Exactly. Rafalski was an excellent dman that was a key contirbutor for two different organizations that won Cups.
it wasn't a shot at rafalski. rafalski was an excellent dman. i'm referencing the fact that myers plays like he's 5'10", even though people continue to say "don't trade him! he might be chara." you could inject myers with HGH for 5 years and he still couldn't be chara.

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06-23-2013, 05:11 PM
  #97
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Here's a trade-up scenario I don't believe I've seen discussed:

Assuming Bryzgalov is bought out by Philly...

Miller + 16th

for

11th + additional asset from Philly

The quality of the additional asset would depend on whether or not salary is withheld (and how much is withheld). It could also be something conditional as well...starts as a 2014 2nd, but upgrades to a 2014 1st if Miller resigns.

That's probably a little on the high side (the conditional compensation), but at it's core, I think it's realistic and works for both teams. Philly is in a perpetual state of "win now" due to Snider's impatience, and I don't think they would bat an eye at nabbing a proven starting goaltender with a history of putting up respectable numbers behind suspect defenses, even if it ends up being for a single year only.

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06-23-2013, 05:13 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Afinogretzky View Post
lol i know right? is there anything dumber than getting a player like Bo Horvat for your awkward, goofball #4 dman who is insanely overpaid? sounds like the dumbest thing i've ever heard.
I'd be willing to trade myers for a top 7 pick. Anything later is dumb

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06-23-2013, 05:29 PM
  #99
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I dont understand how any Sabres fan would want to trade Myers or even consider trading Myers?

We are talking about a 23 year old Calder winner that is still growing into his body. The guy has shut down #1 D potential. We dont have anyone else like him.

Yes he needs to work on a lot of stuff, but he has time to. We need to be patient.

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06-23-2013, 05:40 PM
  #100
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Agree with Scary. D men take a little longer to hit a good consistent stride.

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