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2013 NHL Draft Talk Part V: Flyers own the 11th overall pick

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Old
06-23-2013, 09:24 AM
  #726
TheKingPin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHLAlert View Post
I've posted a lot about my thoughts on Nikita Zadorov and now I have a video that shows his skills. He really does have a unique skill set and for everyone that said his offensive game will never develop (for whatever reason) this will show you his potential.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4OsR...e_gdata_player
He looks great and he seems to have a good sense of when to move up or back kinda like a few very talented dmen have in the past.

I think he will be there at 11 and that's very exciting

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06-23-2013, 09:41 AM
  #727
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You sure Zads is a defensemen lol? Sure looks offensive to me, almost like a huge forward. As long as his D is good, Im down with this pick

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06-23-2013, 10:25 AM
  #728
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Zadorov is a very fine player and he's also a team first guy. When he got to London, the first thing he did was go to Dale Hunter and asked to be in the role of shut down defender because he wanted to earn his spot on the team. He didn't care about stats or power play time or anything like that. He wanted to go, play the toughest role in hockey and do well at it so that he would earn his teammate's respect. How can one not like a guy like that?

As well, you can see that there is a burgeoning offensive game underneath a fantastic defensive game already. Now that there's probably three defensemen that will be gone from the London lineup this year, Zadorov is probably going to get top two pairing and a lot of power play time. There's no reason to believe that he can't practically double his numbers that he put up this year. He's got a cannon of a shot that's accurate, he's got a hell of a snap and wrist shot, he can pass the puck well and he handles the puck very well and so calmly.

If the Flyers don't select Morrissey, I wouldn't exactly be heart broken if they chose Zadorov. The Flyers are going to need someone like him, especially playing against the likes of Lucic, Tom Wilson (when he arrives in Washington), James Neal, Rick Nash, etc.....They'll need that big defenseman who can muscle those guys off the puck when they come into the defensive zone.

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06-23-2013, 10:46 AM
  #729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Zadorov is a very fine player and he's also a team first guy. When he got to London, the first thing he did was go to Dale Hunter and asked to be in the role of shut down defender because he wanted to earn his spot on the team. He didn't care about stats or power play time or anything like that. He wanted to go, play the toughest role in hockey and do well at it so that he would earn his teammate's respect. How can one not like a guy like that?

As well, you can see that there is a burgeoning offensive game underneath a fantastic defensive game already. Now that there's probably three defensemen that will be gone from the London lineup this year, Zadorov is probably going to get top two pairing and a lot of power play time. There's no reason to believe that he can't practically double his numbers that he put up this year. He's got a cannon of a shot that's accurate, he's got a hell of a snap and wrist shot, he can pass the puck well and he handles the puck very well and so calmly.

If the Flyers don't select Morrissey, I wouldn't exactly be heart broken if they chose Zadorov. The Flyers are going to need someone like him, especially playing against the likes of Lucic, Tom Wilson (when he arrives in Washington), James Neal, Rick Nash, etc.....They'll need that big defenseman who can muscle those guys off the puck when they come into the defensive zone.
i agree 100%. and add crosby to the mix, bring in another big dman, let him loose on crosby and beat him like a red headed step child. risto would be another big guy that can hit, and morin yikes when that guy is done growing he is gonna be as big as a house.

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06-23-2013, 11:42 AM
  #730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Zadorov is a very fine player and he's also a team first guy. When he got to London, the first thing he did was go to Dale Hunter and asked to be in the role of shut down defender because he wanted to earn his spot on the team. He didn't care about stats or power play time or anything like that. He wanted to go, play the toughest role in hockey and do well at it so that he would earn his teammate's respect. How can one not like a guy like that?

As well, you can see that there is a burgeoning offensive game underneath a fantastic defensive game already. Now that there's probably three defensemen that will be gone from the London lineup this year, Zadorov is probably going to get top two pairing and a lot of power play time. There's no reason to believe that he can't practically double his numbers that he put up this year. He's got a cannon of a shot that's accurate, he's got a hell of a snap and wrist shot, he can pass the puck well and he handles the puck very well and so calmly.

If the Flyers don't select Morrissey, I wouldn't exactly be heart broken if they chose Zadorov. The Flyers are going to need someone like him, especially playing against the likes of Lucic, Tom Wilson (when he arrives in Washington), James Neal, Rick Nash, etc.....They'll need that big defenseman who can muscle those guys off the puck when they come into the defensive zone.
Do you agree when people say he is 5-6 years from making a true impact? Is he really that big of a project, or more in line with a Cowen type progression from a few years ago?

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06-23-2013, 12:15 PM
  #731
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
Do not want.
Not interested in Zadorov.
We need an offensively skilled defenseman to compete in today's NHL.
We have already players like Zadorov, in Schenn and Grossmann.
You can get players with defensive skills in the 2nd or 3rd rounds.

IMO, Zadorov is either going to be a stud #1 defenseman or a bust.
With the Flyers history drafting defenseman, I prefer not to gamble so much.
Would prefer Pulock, Morrisey or Ristolainen at #11.

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06-23-2013, 12:18 PM
  #732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
Not interested in Zadorov.
We need an offensively skilled defenseman to compete in today's NHL.
We have already players like Zadorov, in Schenn and Grossmann.
You can get players with defensive skills in the 2nd or 3rd rounds.

IMO, Zadorov is either going to be a stud #1 defenseman or a bust.
With the Flyers history drafting defenseman, I prefer not to gamble so much.
Would prefer Pulock, Morrisey or Ristolainen at #11.
There's really no such thing as a safe pick when it comes to defensemen and goaltenders. The positions are so hard to predict.

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06-23-2013, 12:23 PM
  #733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
Not interested in Zadorov.
We need an offensively skilled defenseman to compete in today's NHL.
We have already players like Zadorov, in Schenn and Grossmann.
You can get players with defensive skills in the 2nd or 3rd rounds.

IMO, Zadorov is either going to be a stud #1 defenseman or a bust.
With the Flyers history drafting defenseman, I prefer not to gamble so much.
Would prefer Pulock, Morrisey or Ristolainen at #11.
I would not be ok with Pulock. He's all offense and physically more mature then most and it's just my opinion but has a much lower potential then many of the other guys talked about in this thread.

Btw I also do not agree with the comparison of Zadorov to Schenn and Grossmann. Compare their numbers from junior/development leagues and with his tools there is no reason Zadorov won't be a bigger pt producer then these two if everything goes well. Grossmann never put up more then 10 pts in a season and Schenn hit mid 20's his final season of juniors. Zad only has one season in the CHL and he already practically matched Schenn's best offensive output.


Last edited by FlyersFan61290: 06-23-2013 at 12:29 PM.
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Old
06-23-2013, 12:34 PM
  #734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
Do not want.
Okay. Thanks.

Did you read about any of the other players listed. Quite a few done. Which was the basis of the post, but figured I'd tie zad to it due to he content.


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06-23-2013, 12:38 PM
  #735
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Originally Posted by FlyerFire View Post
You sure Zads is a defensemen lol? Sure looks offensive to me, almost like a huge forward. As long as his D is good, Im down with this pick
Lol thats what I was saying while watching that, hes down low below the goal line more then the forwards he's playing with in all those clips

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Old
06-23-2013, 12:41 PM
  #736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stizzle View Post
Do you agree when people say he is 5-6 years from making a true impact? Is he really that big of a project, or more in line with a Cowen type progression from a few years ago?
Personally, I think Zadorov could step into the NHL next year and be a serviceable defensive defenseman and PKer. He's a good skater for his size, and he's already physically mature(6'5", 229) and uses his size. I wouldn't want him to step in immediately because it would probably stunt his offensive development, and he'd offer the same thing that we can get from other NHL players. Let him develop the offensive side of his game for a year or two, then bring him in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
IMO, Zadorov is either going to be a stud #1 defenseman or a bust.
How? If a guy is 6'5", 229, physical, and a decent skater, he's got a place in the NHL, guaranteed. Even if Zadorov never takes his game to the next level and doesn't develop anything offensively, he's still a useful defensive #4 or at worst a #5. Guys that big that can hit and skate will stick.

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06-23-2013, 12:46 PM
  #737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
Not interested in Zadorov.
We need an offensively skilled defenseman to compete in today's NHL.
We have already players like Zadorov, in Schenn and Grossmann.
You can get players with defensive skills in the 2nd or 3rd rounds.

IMO, Zadorov is either going to be a stud #1 defenseman or a bust.
With the Flyers history drafting defenseman, I prefer not to gamble so much.
Would prefer Pulock, Morrisey or Ristolainen at #11.
I agree with everything you said, but no way do I think he is going to be a stud #1 defenseman. You need to be an excellent two way defender to be considered a #1. Despite what excuses people make, if he had that kind of skill set he'd already be playing that role in London.



Quote:
Originally Posted by dingbathero View Post
Okay. Thanks.

Did you read about any of the other players listed. Quite a few done. Which was the basis of the post, but figured I'd tie zad to it due to he content.

Yeah, I have been reading their profiles. I think theirs give us the best idea of what these kids may be with the historical comparisons. Their profiles only solidify my desire for Ristolainen.

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06-23-2013, 01:16 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
I agree with everything you said, but no way do I think he is going to be a stud #1 defenseman. You need to be an excellent two way defender to be considered a #1. Despite what excuses people make, if he had that kind of skill set he'd already be playing that role in London.
Not really. Shea Weber wasn't an offensive dynamo in his draft year, nor did he play the #1 role.

It's all about projecting with these young guys. That's what the scouts are for. To assess how these skills will continue to develop and translate at the next level.

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06-23-2013, 01:23 PM
  #739
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If Jones somehow slips to 4 (plausible with the Avs seriously interested in Barkov), the Flyers have to make a move. Nashville won't be thrilled to see both of the top centers gone along with Drouin. They really have no pressing need for Jones with their defense, and selecting Nichushkin has to give them Radulov nightmares. Monahan or Lindholm at 4 is an overdraft.

I'm terrible at proposals, so don't bite my head off. But would you trade Couturier and 11 for Jones and Watson/Beck? It'd be sweet to pry Forsberg out of Nashville, but that probably wouldn't happen.

I hate the thought of loosing Couturier and a high pick, but Jones is exactly what we need. Nashville has been linked to Couturier before we even drafted him, and he would be a perfect fit for Trotz's system. Watson and Beck are both potential top 6 forwards.

Simmonds-Giroux-Read
Hartnell-Schenn-Voracek
Gagne-Laughton-Watson/Beck
McGinn-Talbot-Rinaldo

Timonen-Schenn
Grossman-Jones
Coburn-Streit
Gustafsson

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06-23-2013, 01:41 PM
  #740
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If Jones fell to 4 (which I doubt happens) Nashville would be fielding a ton of offers for that pick. The price would be very high to begin with but adding other buyers driving the price up and I don't think we could afford it. We just wouldn't have the assets to match other teams.

I much rather move down than up if we were going to move out of the 11 spot.

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06-23-2013, 03:13 PM
  #741
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
If Jones fell to 4 (which I doubt happens) Nashville would be fielding a ton of offers for that pick. The price would be very high to begin with but adding other buyers driving the price up and I don't think we could afford it. We just wouldn't have the assets to match other teams.

I much rather move down than up if we were going to move out of the 11 spot.
QFT. If moving up can be done solely on picks, I would do it, but if Jones falls to four the value of that pick will skyrocket. Other than Jones, Mac, and Drouin, there is no one in this draft that I would be interested in trading up for, unless the cost was insanely low...which wouldn't happen. If they aren't picking at 11, they should try to move back and maybe pick up an extra second rounder (or even first from CBJ if someone big falls to 11).

It really is going to depend on what is there at 11. What would you idiots think about this...Lindholm falls to 11. CBJ is in love with him and wants to take him. 19, 27, 44 for 11 and 41? Take a defender with 19 (Pulock, Morrissey, Morin, whomever else may be available). Take Fucale if he is there at 27, if not draft a guy like Mantha if he falls or Erne or Hartman who should be available.

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06-23-2013, 03:22 PM
  #742
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Trading for the 4th if Jones falls would be almost as expensive as trading for the 1st overall right now. IMO teams would ask Couturier, 11th plus which is just ridiculous. I can't see a realistic situation where acquiring Jones is possible/worth it.

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06-23-2013, 03:31 PM
  #743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
If Jones fell to 4 (which I doubt happens) Nashville would be fielding a ton of offers for that pick. The price would be very high to begin with but adding other buyers driving the price up and I don't think we could afford it. We just wouldn't have the assets to match other teams.

I much rather move down than up if we were going to move out of the 11 spot.
How many teams can beat Couturier and 11 for that pick though? Keeping in mind that Nashville has expressed interest in Sean in the past. Only one I can think of is Calgary with their 3 picks that they reportedly offered to Colorado, if it was indeed Jones they were targeting.

Man, I just really want Jones on this team, he is a perfect fit for our young core. If only we didn't go on that winning streak to end the season, it might of been a little more realistic.

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06-23-2013, 03:42 PM
  #744
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Originally Posted by Couturioux View Post
How many teams can beat Couturier and 11 for that pick though? Keeping in mind that Nashville has expressed interest in Sean in the past. Only one I can think of is Calgary with their 3 picks that they reportedly offered to Colorado, if it was indeed Jones they were targeting.

Man, I just really want Jones on this team, he is a perfect fit for our young core. If only we didn't go on that winning streak to end the season, it might of been a little more realistic.
Any team could trade their most coveted young NHL player/prospect and two first rounders 2013 and 2014.
If Jones is seen as #1 defenseman, they could want Courturier, and both #1 in 2013
and 2014 for the 4th pick overall in this draft. I just remember what the Flyers traded for Pronger.

IMO, too many picks expended on moving up to the 4th overall for Jones.

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06-23-2013, 03:53 PM
  #745
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Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
Any team could trade their most coveted young NHL player/prospect and two first rounders 2013 and 2014.
If Jones is seen as #1 defenseman, they could want Courturier, and both #1 in 2013
and 2014 for the 4th pick overall in this draft. I just remember what the Flyers traded for Pronger.

IMO, too many picks expended on moving up to the 4th overall for Jones.
Yea but how many teams have the cajones that Homer has when it comes to making deals?

If somehow Jones does slip, which probably won't even happen because I could easily see the Lightning taking him...but if he does, Homer is one of the few GM's out there who will say **** it and give up what it takes to get him.

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06-23-2013, 03:57 PM
  #746
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I would not be ok with Pulock. He's all offense and physically more mature then most and it's just my opinion but has a much lower potential then many of the other guys talked about in this thread.

Btw I also do not agree with the comparison of Zadorov to Schenn and Grossmann. Compare their numbers from junior/development leagues and with his tools there is no reason Zadorov won't be a bigger pt producer then these two if everything goes well. Grossmann never put up more then 10 pts in a season and Schenn hit mid 20's his final season of juniors. Zad only has one season in the CHL and he already practically matched Schenn's best offensive output.
Thats ok, because at best I view Zadorov as the second coming of Coburn.
He is another big body, that skates ok with limited offensive ability.
The Flyers do not need another Coburn with the #11 pick of the first round.
The Flyers already have one Coburn too many, why draft another?

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06-23-2013, 04:04 PM
  #747
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Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
Thats ok, because at best I view Zadorov as the second coming of Coburn.
He is another big body, that skates ok with limited offensive ability.
The Flyers do not need another Coburn with the #11 pick of the first round.
The Flyers already have one Coburn too many, why draft another?
We may have one too many Pulock's by the time any of these kids make the NHL (if they even do at all). That's why it's silly to look at the roster now and draft a player based off that. You draft the player likely to make the NHL if that's Pulock too then go for it.

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06-23-2013, 05:08 PM
  #748
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Not really. Shea Weber wasn't an offensive dynamo in his draft year, nor did he play the #1 role.

It's all about projecting with these young guys. That's what the scouts are for. To assess how these skills will continue to develop and translate at the next level.
There is always an exception to every rule, but generally those who cannot produce offensively at the junior level aren't able to produce offensively in the best league in the world. He is not worth taking that high.

I feel like we have this debate every year, but scouting is not an exact science. Scouts have a penchant for overvaluing players with size and physicality. I always roll my eyes when juniors are compared to players like Weber, Chara, and Lucic. There is a reason why these guys are so revered. It's because they are one of a kind. Just because they wildly exceeded expectations doesn't mean everyone who is large is going to do the same. The odds are against it. That's why these players are so rare. If it was just as easy as looking for players with a similar body and physicality the league would be full of them. The goal should be to look for the player with the most skills, period. The more skill you take the more of these lottery tickets will pan out.

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06-23-2013, 05:11 PM
  #749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
We may have one too many Pulock's by the time any of these kids make the NHL (if they even do at all). That's why it's silly to look at the roster now and draft a player based off that. You draft the player likely to make the NHL if that's Pulock too then go for it.
I agree with the general sentiment, but you can never have too may puckmovers/offensive dmen. They are also much more valuable as a trade asset.

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06-23-2013, 05:18 PM
  #750
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
I would not be ok with Pulock. He's all offense and physically more mature then most and it's just my opinion but has a much lower potential then many of the other guys talked about in this thread.

Btw I also do not agree with the comparison of Zadorov to Schenn and Grossmann. Compare their numbers from junior/development leagues and with his tools there is no reason Zadorov won't be a bigger pt producer then these two if everything goes well. Grossmann never put up more then 10 pts in a season and Schenn hit mid 20's his final season of juniors. Zad only has one season in the CHL and he already practically matched Schenn's best offensive output.
What??
Zadorov's draft year: .10 gpg, .40ppg
L. Schenn's draft year: .12 gpg, .49 ppg

Schenn is a pretty good comparison.

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