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Starting Goaltender Part II

View Poll Results: Who do you want the Isles' #1 goaltender to be?
Evgeni Nabokov 20 12.20%
Kevin Poulin 3 1.83%
Anders Nilsson 5 3.05%
Ryan Miller 31 18.90%
Jonas Hiller 17 10.37%
Jaroslav Halak 11 6.71%
Anton Khudobin 35 21.34%
Roberto Luongo 27 16.46%
Mike Smith 8 4.88%
Other 7 4.27%
Voters: 164. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-23-2013, 04:06 PM
  #26
blitzkriegs
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Originally Posted by duster19 View Post
so bernier goes for cheap and its not a missed opportunity? God knows when I go shoppibg for a new car, I hate a good deal. Missed opportunity.
The Isles were not rumored to be among the three final teams.

Maybe Lombardi did not have interest in the players Snow was willing to give up to make this deal happen?

Maybe Snow put a line in the sand in value and said this guy, but not that?

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06-23-2013, 04:40 PM
  #27
Sheva7
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Originally Posted by duster19 View Post
so bernier goes for cheap and its not a missed opportunity? God knows when I go shoppibg for a new car, I hate a good deal. Missed opportunity.
I wouldnt call it a missed opportunity.

The Leafs just put together a package we couldn't match. In Frattin the kings get a solid, young NHL player, which is what they wanted more than a prospect.

Could we have offered a young NHL ready player similar to Frattin? Sure we could, but do we want to lose a CiZikas, Grabner, or Martin type player?

I don't think so.

Again, we got some nice prospects, but it seems to me Dean Lombardi wanted someone he could put in lineup right away.

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06-23-2013, 04:42 PM
  #28
Sheva7
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And if it counts for anything, I say Snow stays status quo.

Re-signs his starter Nabokov with Poulin in relief.

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06-23-2013, 04:54 PM
  #29
Riseonfire
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Originally Posted by Sheva7 View Post
I wouldnt call it a missed opportunity.

The Leafs just put together a package we couldn't match. In Frattin the kings get a solid, young NHL player, which is what they wanted more than a prospect.

Could we have offered a young NHL ready player similar to Frattin? Sure we could, but do we want to lose a CiZikas, Grabner, or Martin type player?

I don't think so.

Again, we got some nice prospects, but it seems to me Dean Lombardi wanted someone he could put in lineup right away.
Zeeker Grabs and Martin are a tier above Frattin.

If we offered McDonald, 2014's 2nd and Poulin it would be about the same. 3rd line energy guy with some skill.

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06-23-2013, 04:58 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by gramatanboy View Post
Maybe Snow had no interest in trading Nino for Bernier. Frattin is at best a 3rd liner, Scrivens is nothing more than a backup and a 2nd in 2014 or 2015 is hardly a great haul for Bernier. In fact, I would not trade Johan Sundstrom for those three pieces, let alone Nino. Let's see what Snow does in July and August before calling this a missed opportunity.

And who's to say that the Kings even wanted Nino? Maybe they hate him as much as some on these boards.

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06-23-2013, 05:02 PM
  #31
periferal
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If the Isles dealt for Bernier

Based on what the Leafs offered, the deal would have looked like....


Matt Martin
Kevin Poulin
2nd Round Pick


Jonathan Bernier


Are you willing to make that deal?

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06-23-2013, 05:05 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by periferal View Post
Based on what the Leafs offered, the deal would have looked like....


Matt Martin
Kevin Poulin
2nd Round Pick


Jonathan Bernier


Are you willing to make that deal?
Not even a little bit.

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06-23-2013, 05:12 PM
  #33
Riseonfire
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Fratin's NHL career PPG : 0.34
Martin's NHL career PPG: 0.20

Frattin's sample size is WAY smaller, he also played on the 3rd line instead of the 4th and no where near the amount of hits that Martin lays out.

Two incomparable players.

Colin McDonald? Now he's a 3rd liner who would like up with Frattin better.


McDonald a 2nd in 2014 or 2015 and Poulin?

Yes ****ing please.

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06-23-2013, 05:20 PM
  #34
Marlo Stanfield
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From the choices mentioned

Evgeni Nabokov - yes as a 1B/backup (25-30 games)
Kevin Poulin - no. Starting to dull on him personally.
Anders Nilsson - yes, but needs another 2 years of grooming/developing.
Ryan Miller - no. Pending UFA and pissy locker room attitude.
Jonas Hiller - pending UFA like Miller but I like his upside.
Jaroslav Halak - no, injury prone and pending UFA. Even in St. Louis, never fully established himself as a #1
Anton Khudobin - yes. Was weary of him at first but warmed up to him.
Roberto Luongo - yes but that contract makes me say no.
Mike Smith - NO. Locker room headache and system goalie.

From others - Neuvirth, Emery or Greiss to pair with Nabakov or Backstrom as 1A with Poulin/Nilsson. Mayyyybe Reimer becomes available now? Would definitely call about that.


Last edited by Marlo Stanfield: 06-23-2013 at 05:40 PM.
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Old
06-23-2013, 05:24 PM
  #35
periferal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riseonfire View Post
Fratin's NHL career PPG : 0.34
Martin's NHL career PPG: 0.20

Frattin's sample size is WAY smaller, he also played on the 3rd line instead of the 4th and no where near the amount of hits that Martin lays out.

Two incomparable players.

Colin McDonald? Now he's a 3rd liner who would like up with Frattin better.


McDonald a 2nd in 2014 or 2015 and Poulin?

Yes ****ing please.

Oh well why even offer McDonald? We should have traded Aaron Ness and a 6th rounder for Bernier.

I mean really. Colin McDonald is a fringe NHLer who you'll probably see on waivers/the AHL in the next two years. You think the Kings are taking a deal with McDonald for Bernier?

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06-23-2013, 05:25 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by periferal View Post
Based on what the Leafs offered, the deal would have looked like....


Matt Martin
Kevin Poulin
2nd Round Pick


Jonathan Bernier


Are you willing to make that deal?
Yes! I would have done anyone from Lee, Martin, Zeeker. However i don't think the kings would have i think they view frattin higher then any one of those guys. My question is this package better then a 1st 3rd and poulin?

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06-23-2013, 05:31 PM
  #37
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Money was a BIG issue in this deal. Frattin is cheap and in control for a few years.

LA also received cap relief from the Leafs, 500K, it was a BIG sticking point for them.

The CAP space will become a bigger issue going forward for teams.

That is why I do not see a buy for DP until Yashin's dollars are off the books. That would be 2 years from now.

Just my 2 cents...

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06-23-2013, 05:33 PM
  #38
Jester9881
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beastrt View Post
Yes! I would have done anyone from Lee, Martin, Zeeker.
Jesus H..... thank God you're not the Islanders GM.


Bernier is WAAAAAY over rated, and the Islanders problem in goal last year is being waaaaay over stated. Take DiPietro out of the equation and they're closer to middle of the pack..... give Nabokov more of a rest, and they might be even better than that.

Bernier is no more a sure thing than any of our 3 prospects, and that is a fact.

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06-23-2013, 05:33 PM
  #39
A Pointed Stick
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Who would I want? Miller, with hesitation towards what his presence/ego/persona/etc. might do to the group.I don't think he would consider playing here anyway, but he is the best of that group we had to choose from.

My second choice is Hiller. He is 31 and can still put up a 910+ save % behind an at times suspect Anaheim defense. At $4.5 mill for one more season we would unburden the Ducks so they could sign Ryan, along with the other 8 slots they have to pay for with only 8 million in cap space yet.

If the opportunity was there, and Miller wasn't deemed a team chemistry issue and willing to play on club still finding it's skates in the playoffs, I would gladly take either of these guys over Khudobin who proved he can't save the day on an equally developing Oiler squad. Of all the positions you can afford to allow to develop in the NHL, Goalie isn't one of them.

BTW, I think we can all assume LA asked for too much for Bernier. I'm not losing any sleep over this one deal. If they make it through summer without any new goaltender though, different story. But it is June, haven't made it past July 5th yet, so I am not going to have a cow over 1 over-coveted player.

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06-23-2013, 05:41 PM
  #40
Marlo Stanfield
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
I would gladly take either of these guys over Khudobin who proved he can't save the day on an equally developing Oiler squad. Of all the positions you can afford to allow to develop in the NHL, Goalie isn't one of them.
I think you confused Anton Khudobin with Nikolai Khabibulin

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06-23-2013, 05:46 PM
  #41
Beastrt
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
Jesus H..... thank God you're not the Islanders GM.


Bernier is WAAAAAY over rated, and the Islanders problem in goal last year is being waaaaay over stated. Take DiPietro out of the equation and they're closer to middle of the pack..... give Nabokov more of a rest, and they might be even better than that.

Bernier is no more a sure thing than any of our 3 prospects, and that is a fact.
Ya thank god we wouldn't trade a 4th round player for a #1 goaltender

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06-23-2013, 05:53 PM
  #42
A Pointed Stick
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Originally Posted by Marlo Stanfield View Post
I think you confused Anton Khudobin with Nikolai Khabibulin
Hey, beer thirty has it's pitfalls.

Khudobin has had a fairly easy ride in Boston provided who he plays behind, being the 5th best GAA team in the league. Maybe he is worth it? There isn't much sample size to judge from. I'd rather have a guy who I know will be good.

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06-23-2013, 05:54 PM
  #43
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People are trying to compare what it would have taken to trade for Bernier's rights. You don't know that the same criteria applied for any of the other teams inquiring.
For Philly they have only had interest in a Couturier type.

With the islanders they could have been asking for someone like Nelson or maybe even a Neilsen type.

You have to be various giving up assets for a goaltender who lost his job to a third rounder and never put a strangle hold on the job.

Bernier would have been nice don't get me wrong. However, the body of work is very minimal to make me feel totally ok to give up assets.

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06-23-2013, 05:55 PM
  #44
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Ya thank god we wouldn't trade a 4th round player for a #1 goaltender
Nice double standard. If we're just going to refer to Cizikas as a 4th rounder, why are we referring to Bernier as a #1 goaltender?

There are many other options in net. Cizikas and Martin are the type of players you need to win a Stanley Cup. You see it every year with the teams that make it deep into the playoffs. Just because they may be 4th liners or mid round draft picks does not mean they're dime a dozen. You can't teach character + work ethic.

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06-23-2013, 05:57 PM
  #45
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Ryan Miller, Luongo has no chance of coming here, so Ryan Miller is the only plausible

call me racist or whatever, but I am sick of players coming from the land where it seems the front runner on this list is from, they always seem to disappear in the playoffs

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06-23-2013, 06:03 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by periferal View Post
Based on what the Leafs offered, the deal would have looked like....


Matt Martin
Kevin Poulin
2nd Round Pick


Jonathan Bernier


Are you willing to make that deal?
would love to know what Snow offered if he even offered anything

Bernier was the guy to go for, I have a feeling he is going to be a good goalie, not to mention it looks like it did not take alot to get him

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06-23-2013, 06:10 PM
  #47
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I just hope its not Nabokov and Poulin. Nothing against Nab by, he's been great for us, but he's not the answer. He was atrocious in the playoffs and shouldn't be our starting goalie if we expect to go further into the playoffs.

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06-23-2013, 06:15 PM
  #48
Riseonfire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by periferal View Post
Oh well why even offer McDonald? We should have traded Aaron Ness and a 6th rounder for Bernier.

I mean really. Colin McDonald is a fringe NHLer who you'll probably see on waivers/the AHL in the next two years. You think the Kings are taking a deal with McDonald for Bernier?
You missed the point of my post.

Frattin is a fringe NHLer who has never played an NHL season without being sent down to the minors.

My point was that McDonald is more in line with Frattin than Martin is.
Martin is an established NHLer who most fans would kill to have on their team.

And no, I don't think the Kings would accept a deal like that, nor did I ever say so. But you threw Martin in the ring as a way to justify your belief that we should not be trading for Bernier.

Like Dan-o said earlier, this is a missed opportunity.

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Old
06-23-2013, 06:28 PM
  #49
Jester9881
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Originally Posted by Beastrt View Post
Ya thank god we wouldn't trade a 4th round player for a #1 goaltender
Your thinking is far too simplistic, I'll leave it at that.

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06-23-2013, 06:42 PM
  #50
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Who really cares what a similar deal would have looked like from the Islanders perspective? At this point it's irrelevant. It's one great big guessing game as you'll never know what Lombardi's wish list looked like, so why bother playing this game, it's a useless exercise. Bernier is in Toronto and he may or may not turn out to be a #1 NHL goaltender, it remains to be seen. Let's move on from bernier for 5 minutes. He's a living legend on the Islanders HF Boards.

On a related note, I can't wait for Keith Yandle to get traded to a team other than the Islanders so we can move on from his HF Islanders page immortality. (although not before 9,000 useless posts of 'we could have had him for X, Y and Z, Why didn't we do this?!?!?!').

Sorry just sick of hearing about these two guys, who are fine hockey players in their own right but so over talked about and overrated on these boards that I can't bear reading their names anymore.

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