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David Desharnais: Are we being too harsh?

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Old
06-22-2013, 07:52 PM
  #76
Milhouse40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Again, a typical hyperbolic HFboards argument. Desharnais' weakness on defense is due in good part to his physique. He is otherwise responsible and rarely caught out of position, which is what hockey sense is about. Desharnais knows how to play defense, he's just not very effective at it. Its in important distinction considering the argument you are trying to make. The players you named as having ''excellent hockey sense and vision'', Galchenyuk and Subban, truly are excellent but they benefit from great physical gifts and they are more skilled. Desharnais would be a high tier player as well if he were taller and stronger.

And I don't really see the comparison with Ryder, they are very different types of players.



Top20 NHL center in point in his first full season with 60pt and top40 in his second. I don't consider first or second line NHL centers ''sucky''. Its a perfect case of ridiculous management of expectations by fans, at 3.5m he doesn't have to score a point per game to be ''decent''. Expecting 50pt a year is perfectly reasonable, and a 50pt producing NHLer is not ''sucky'' no matter how you put it.

.
Actually, he often lost his battle 1 on 1 deep in the offensive zone and get caught out of position and he's not fast enough to make up for it. Add the fact that he is one of the smallest guy in the game.....i can't push anybody away from the puck (Even a big guy with absolutely no talent can do that).

Ryder did also put 62pts the same years made his 60.
This year Ryder put up more points than DD also.

Do you want the guy?
He does put up more points than Desharnais after all.
that's why i wrote: DD=Ryder
They both put up points.....but that's about the only thing these guys are good for.
And Ryder don't suck either....he put up many many points!!!
According to point, Ryder is better than DD, why we didn't keep him instead of the little guy????

Point isn't everything.
Players got downside and upside.

DD skillset is very limitated. Not a PP or PK specialist, not above average in the faceoff, got no defensive minded game, no grit, no physicality, no intimidation, no shot, not one of those fast players, not good at 1 on 1, not a forechecker or a backchecker, no leadership......

I'm not saying he suck at all of that, but he's not actually good at those.
Come on, what is his attribute that make him sooooo valuable that the habs should absolutely keep him???
He can make a couple great passes, great work ethic????

And i see him as a 45-50pts players. It's ridiculous to expect a 5'7" late-bloomer center to be a constant 60pts guy. He is also paid as that type of player. And he will never get back the offensive advantages he got in the past with Galchenyuk and Eller around. He will loose them sooner rather than later.

But i believe his downside hurt to much a team like the habs, don't bring enough at the table and only a production of 45-50pts at best isn't worth it....just like Ryder.


Last edited by Milhouse40: 06-22-2013 at 08:03 PM.
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06-22-2013, 08:14 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Again, a typical hyperbolic HFboards argument. Desharnais' weakness on defense is due in good part to his physique. He is otherwise responsible and rarely caught out of position, which is what hockey sense is about. Desharnais knows how to play defense, he's just not very effective at it. Its in important distinction considering the argument you are trying to make. The players you named as having ''excellent hockey sense and vision'', Galchenyuk and Subban, truly are excellent but they benefit from great physical gifts and they are more skilled. Desharnais would be a high tier player as well if he were taller and stronger.

And I don't really see the comparison with Ryder, they are very different types of players.



Top20 NHL center in point in his first full season with 60pt and top40 in his second. I don't consider first or second line NHL centers ''sucky''. Its a perfect case of ridiculous management of expectations by fans, at 3.5m he doesn't have to score a point per game to be ''decent''. Expecting 50pt a year is perfectly reasonable, and a 50pt producing NHLer is not ''sucky'' no matter how you put it.



Thanks for proving this thread is legitimate. ''Joke of a hockey player'', give me a break.
DD would be a better player if he were taller.

But he isn't.

Why do you bring it up?

It is not an important distinction.

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06-22-2013, 08:48 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by icerocket View Post
Habs will never win the SC with DD in the lineup. Take off your goggles. He is just a plug until they find something better.
bang on buddy

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06-22-2013, 08:59 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by CHwest View Post
I agree, he'll hang on in the league a while, but unless he changes his game drastically will never get a sniff of a cup. He is the weakest link on whatever team he plays on, and a SC team can't afford to carry the DD's of the league.
thank you

what more is there to say folks

I really dont understand how we can defend his role on this team

watch the finals , on what line or who is DD going to replace and be effective ?

the cup is won with warrriors , grit , character players and solid team defence

every player has a job to do

look at Jagr he hasnt scored but he has shown great puck control , he has hit numerous posts , made plays and used his 240 pound frame effectively

he brought different dimensions to the table on the top 6

DD`s limitations were exposed in the playoffs and was totally ineffective and shut down , he is easy to contain cause he doesnt have other aspects of him to offer .

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06-22-2013, 09:05 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by icerocket View Post
He is a non-factor in the playoffs.

He is too small.

Habs need to get bigger.
exactly and its not just DD , we have a brutal makeup

small finesse forwards , weak defensive zone blueliners who lack jam and strength
and a lack of overall team toughness

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06-22-2013, 09:18 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by icerocket View Post
Habs will never win the SC with DD in the lineup. Take off your goggles. He is just a plug until they find something better.
same could be said about 7-8 players

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06-22-2013, 09:21 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
exactly and its not just DD , we have a brutal makeup

small finesse forwards , weak defensive zone blueliners who lack jam and strength
and a lack of overall team toughness
Don't forget the goaltending. <shudder>

And yet, somehow finished 2nd in the Conference despite all that. Amazing. Must be the coaching?

Anyway, I think "we" are indeed being too harsh on Desharnais. He's a good little player, not a great fit for our current team, but so what, teams are never perfectly constructed of the perfect on-paper mix. If he comes back with a bit more spark in his game next year, that'd be nice. I presume we've got him for the next 4 years, so not really much point in getting too worked up against him. He's just not that bad. It will be a long and painful 4 years if the current rate of Desharnais-bashing keeps up.

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06-23-2013, 10:18 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by goalchenyuk View Post
same could be said about 7-8 players
I know.

Contrary to what some Habs fans think, the Canadiens are a long way from being able to compete for a SC. DD is just one of the many players that need to go.

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06-23-2013, 10:24 AM
  #84
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I'd rather DD's position on the Habs be filled by someone else - someone who can play at both ends of the rink effectively.

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06-23-2013, 01:25 PM
  #85
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As long as DD is surrounded with size he plays really well and should continue to improve his defensive play. On the other hand, maybe a move to winger would allow him an easier time on defense so that he does not have to cover players almost twice his size.

Getting him a big winger in FA to go with Patches should have him set at center. Perhaps if he were to move to winger then a line of Patches-Eller-DD could be possible in order to give him as much support as possible.

Honestly, as much as I'm not a fan of DD, I think he has earned his place on the team and has not played himself out of that position. I just wish that he had a bit more size with him to balance him out and that he received a few less important minutes. (Especially when he is on a cold streak)

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06-23-2013, 02:55 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by icerocket View Post
I know.

Contrary to what some Habs fans think, the Canadiens are a long way from being able to compete for a SC. DD is just one of the many players that need to go.
BANG ON 1/3 of this team needs to go at some point

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06-23-2013, 03:11 PM
  #87
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We sure make a lot of excuses, for players, on this forum.

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06-23-2013, 03:47 PM
  #88
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As worried about the size of the player as the size of his contract. It's mind boggling that they've committed to him like that after one good season with two 6'2 goal scoring wingers on his line.

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06-23-2013, 03:51 PM
  #89
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Are you guys exagerating? Yes.

He's doing his job. Until we have/get someone that can do what he does at a higher level, then we'll think about trading him and what not. Until then, it's pointless to cry about something that won't happen. Concentrate on the wings instead.

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06-23-2013, 05:17 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Stripper View Post
Are you guys exagerating? Yes.

He's doing his job. Until we have/get someone that can do what he does at a higher level, then we'll think about trading him and what not. Until then, it's pointless to cry about something that won't happen. Concentrate on the wings instead.
Well you could argue that the time has already come. Plekanec has always been better, Eller outproduced him last season with lesser linemates and if Galchenyuk isn't already better than him then there's a good chance by the end of next season he will be.

I think the time has come for him to move to the wing and then make a decision based on how he adapts.

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06-23-2013, 05:59 PM
  #91
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If Galchenyuk is ready to be our third line center, then by all means, put him there.

Also, Eller was playing with Galchenyuk and those two were quite good together. Eller might have stepped up, but I think Galchenyuk helped him reach the "next" level. Though, I'd first like to make sure the hit he got from Gryba didn't mess with his head. If he's the same as last season, he should be ready to be our 1st or 2nd center.

In time, probably in 2 years, I think it'll be Galchenyuk, Eller and Plekanec (in that order) that will be our three centers. Until then, Desharnais is fine as he is.

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06-23-2013, 06:23 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripper View Post
If Galchenyuk is ready to be our third line center, then by all means, put him there.

Also, Eller was playing with Galchenyuk and those two were quite good together. Eller might have stepped up, but I think Galchenyuk helped him reach the "next" level. Though, I'd first like to make sure the hit he got from Gryba didn't mess with his head. If he's the same as last season, he should be ready to be our 1st or 2nd center.

In time, probably in 2 years, I think it'll be Galchenyuk, Eller and Plekanec (in that order) that will be our three centers. Until then, Desharnais is fine as he is.
It wasn't just the fact that Eller got to play with skilled players like Galchenyuk/Gallagher the fact that those guys were sheltered meant that Eller also got softer minutes and I think that helped a lot as well. Obviously he has to come back healthy and not regress. But I don't see that taking 2 years. I don't mind starting the season with DD as a safety net in case Eller does regress or Galchenyuk still isn't ready but as I said we do that by putting him on the wing right now and re-evaluate things sometime during the season.

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06-23-2013, 07:11 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
It wasn't just the fact that Eller got to play with skilled players like Galchenyuk/Gallagher the fact that those guys were sheltered meant that Eller also got softer minutes and I think that helped a lot as well. Obviously he has to come back healthy and not regress. But I don't see that taking 2 years. I don't mind starting the season with DD as a safety net in case Eller does regress or Galchenyuk still isn't ready but as I said we do that by putting him on the wing right now and re-evaluate things sometime during the season.
Eller had almost 10% lower offensive zone starts than Galchenyuk and 2-3 more icetime/game so not sure they can be compared too much. In fact, his zone starts were close to Plekanec's (47.6% vs 48.7%): http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...61+62+64+65+66

What is your definition of shelter? Both Eller and Galchneyuk seemed to face tougher offensive players/tougher defensive assignment relative to the rest of the team:
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...26+27+13+15+29

Eller's 3rd most common opposition last season was Kadri: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_time_...44+45+46+47+48

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06-23-2013, 07:14 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
DD would be a better player if he were taller.

But he isn't.

Why do you bring it up?

It is not an important distinction.
Because size is not related to his hockey IQ and vision. Read the quoted post.

Desharnais is weak defensively because he's weak physically, not because he can't understand defensive hockey.

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06-23-2013, 07:21 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Eller had almost 10% lower offensive zone starts than Galchenyuk and 2-3 more icetime/game so not sure they can be compared too much. In fact, his zone starts were close to Plekanec's (47.6% vs 48.7%): http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...61+62+64+65+66

What is your definition of shelter? Both Eller and Galchneyuk seemed to face tougher offensive players/tougher defensive assignment relative to the rest of the team:
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...26+27+13+15+29
I was comparing Eller this year to his previous years. Under JM he was used more of a defensive role whereas this year it was a more offensive role.

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06-23-2013, 07:45 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
I was comparing Eller this year to his previous years. Under JM he was used more of a defensive role whereas this year it was a more offensive role.
11/12:
48.3% O-Zone Starts
0.570 QoC (4th with among Habs forwards with ~50%+ of season played: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...26+27+13+15+29)
Top 3 Linemates: Moen, Kostitsyn, Leblanc (http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_time_...24+25+26+27+28)

12/13:
48.7% O-Zone Starts
0.637 QoC (4th with among Habs forwards with ~50%+ of season played: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...26+27+13+15+29)
Top 3 Linemates: Galchenyuk, Prust, Armstrong (http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_time_...24+25+26+27+28)

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06-23-2013, 08:10 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
11/12:
48.3% O-Zone Starts
0.570 QoC (4th with among Habs forwards with ~50%+ of season played: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...26+27+13+15+29)
Top 3 Linemates: Moen, Kostitsyn, Leblanc (http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_time_...24+25+26+27+28)

12/13:
48.7% O-Zone Starts
0.637 QoC (4th with among Habs forwards with ~50%+ of season played: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...26+27+13+15+29)
Top 3 Linemates: Galchenyuk, Prust, Armstrong (http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_time_...24+25+26+27+28)
And if you look at the Quality of Competition he faced easier opponents. He also had nearly 1 extra offensive zone faceoff per game.

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06-23-2013, 09:33 PM
  #98
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It's not about his poor results this year, it's about the fact that he didn't looked nearly as dangerous as last year. He deserves another year I think but he better elevates his game. Eller and Galchenyuk are ready to push him out of a spot in MTL.

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06-23-2013, 09:51 PM
  #99
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It's not about his poor results this year, it's about the fact that he didn't looked nearly as dangerous as last year. He deserves another year I think but he better elevates his game. Eller and Galchenyuk are ready to push him out of a spot in MTL.
This. He'll get his chance, and deserves one. I just wouldn't have been so generous on his contract given all the variables associated. We could have hard-balled him or given him a much shorter term, and laughed at the concept of him taking us to arbitration or whatnot. Oh well. I don't hold that against Desharnais, though. It was one of few enough gaffes by Bergevin.

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06-23-2013, 10:12 PM
  #100
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No we are not.

He just doesn't fit our team. In a cup contender team, Plekanec would be our 2nd center a bit like Bergeron.. but then again, Bergeron is very clutch compared to Plekanec. So it gives us DD as a 1st center and that is a joke. How can we win a cup if we have DD playing against Chara in the playoffs? Even Karlsson can pin DD on the board effortless, imagine how a playoffs mode Chara will do to DD?

With our current centers, DD should not be playing center in this upcoming season. Plekanec as 1st, Eller as 2nd and we need to start using Galchenyuk as a center, so Galchy as 3rd center.

So I say play him on the wing until a team show interest and trade him asap. I don't even need a good return, just get rid of him and his contract. 3.5M$ is a good number for a quality top 9 winger.

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