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2013 Offseason Thread Part IV: SCF, end. Trades, begin.

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06-24-2013, 09:39 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Was that lack of depth due to that 3rd line or a lack of any sort of offense outside of Gaborik?

Players fill roles on a team. We as fans classify guys as 3rd and 4th liner but many in the bottom-6 should be role-fillers. Nystrom is a guy who will play 10-12 minutes a night. Classify him as you will, it doesn't matter if he is effective in his role.

Gregory Campbell played 13+ minutes per game this past season. People call him a 4th liner. Guys have to fill roles.

Boyle is the same way. People want to classify him as a 4th liner, however he is this teams defensive centerman and one of their top PKers. He plays 10-12 minutes a night easily. The same will happen with Nystrom.
That lack of depth was due to not having offense anywhere outside of the top-6 who were, for the most part, effectively keyed on and shutdown. Not an uncommon occurrence in the playoffs for any team, although something you hope to avoid. You need your 3rd or 4th line to be able to break through.

Greg Campbell, by the way, was a consistent 4th in Bruins ES TOI/G among centers who actually played center (as in, Peverley and Seguin are listed at C, but didn't play C for much of the year). That makes him a 4th liner. He took the 3rd most faceoffs at even strength, but Chris Kelly had a higher rate of faceoffs per game, he just missed 14 of them. Campbell is a 4th liner. His role on the penalty kill doesn't change that fact.

As I've stated, I have no issue with signing Nystrom. We just need to make sure we're addressing the bigger issues too.

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06-24-2013, 09:42 AM
  #77
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06-24-2013, 09:44 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Nystrom would be brought in to play similar minutes to Boyle. 4th line ES time. Tons of PK time. Call him whatever you want. 3rd liner. 4th liner. He is effective in his role.
This team shouldn't be slotting 4th line players like Pyatt, Boyle, Dorsett or Nystrom on the 3rd line. That bit them hard last year.

Would much prefer Clarke MacArthur and Brian Bickell.


Last edited by Kershaw: 06-24-2013 at 09:49 AM.
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06-24-2013, 09:51 AM
  #79
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Bickell is going to get way overpaid. Let a dumb team like Calgary throw a boat load of money at him. He'll easily get at least 5 years/20 million. Exactly the kind of situation the Rangers need to avoid.

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06-24-2013, 09:52 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
That lack of depth was due to not having offense anywhere outside of the top-6 who were, for the most part, effectively keyed on and shutdown. Not an uncommon occurrence in the playoffs for any team, although something you hope to avoid. You need your 3rd or 4th line to be able to break through.

Greg Campbell, by the way, was a consistent 4th in Bruins ES TOI/G among centers who actually played center (as in, Peverley and Seguin are listed at C, but didn't play C for much of the year). That makes him a 4th liner. He took the 3rd most faceoffs at even strength, but Chris Kelly had a higher rate of faceoffs per game, he just missed 14 of them. Campbell is a 4th liner. His role on the penalty kill doesn't change that fact.

As I've stated, I have no issue with signing Nystrom. We just need to make sure we're addressing the bigger issues too.
They need a Top-6 LW, 3rd line C, 3rd line RW. One of those spots can be filled by MZA. I am hoping Lindberg or Miller take that 3c spot.

Besides that, they need a "4th line" LW who can contribute as a defensive forward, provide energy and play on the PK. I have a problem strictly classifying guys who play 10-12 minutes a night consistently as 4th liners. But I agree with the premise of the above.

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06-24-2013, 09:53 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
This team shouldn't be slotting 4th line players like Pyatt, Boyle, Dorsett or Nystrom on the 3rd line. That bit them hard last year.

Would much prefer Clarke MacArthur and Brian Bickell.
Like I said, he can play with Boyle on the "4th" line, but when a player plays 10-12 minutes a night, I have a hard time classifying them as only a 4th liner. More that they fill a role as a defensive forward or energy forward like AV said.

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06-24-2013, 09:54 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by I Eat Crow View Post
Bickell is going to get way overpaid. Let a dumb team like Calgary throw a boat load of money at him. He'll easily get at least 5 years/20 million. Exactly the kind of situation the Rangers need to avoid.
I agree. And it's unjustified too. I think of some of the other similar type players that got those big contracts, and at least they were versatile. Joel Ward, for example, was one of Nashville's top PKers. The Caps haven't used him that way, much, but that was a part of his game. Bickell doesn't PK. He barely plays the PP. But is very effective at ES. I would love to have him on the team, but he's going to get paid more than his value.

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06-24-2013, 09:59 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
They need a Top-6 LW, 3rd line C, 3rd line RW. One of those spots can be filled by MZA. I am hoping Lindberg or Miller take that 3c spot.

Besides that, they need a "4th line" LW who can contribute as a defensive forward, provide energy and play on the PK. I have a problem strictly classifying guys who play 10-12 minutes a night consistently as 4th liners. But I agree with the premise of the above.
I classify guys as 4th liners when they're playing the 4th most ES minutes at their position. Some 4th liners are better than others. For example, Boyle is definitely a better player than Newbury. Even as a 4th liner, he deserves more ice time than Newbury would get in the same role. Campbell is also another excellent 4th liner, so he gets the ice time to reflect that.

And honestly, I'm not so rigid to realize that these guys could fit in on a 3rd line with two legitimate 3rd liners with whom he shows chemistry. Kinda like what Boyle and Zuccarello looked like together before MZA broke his wrist. Or what Mitchell and Hagelin looked like together before Hagelin moved up into the top-6.

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06-24-2013, 10:00 AM
  #84
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There's virtually nothing that's available from Calgary that would interest me. Cammalleri is a good player, but are we really going to be able to retain him beyond next year? Not to mention he's 31 and notoriously inconsistent. Glencross isn't going anywhere unless there's a cattle ranch within 15 miles where he can 'rope' in his free time. Wideman has a big contract. Giordano plays the wrong side. Stajan sucks. Tanguay will be 34 in November and has 3 more years left on his deal. Hudler has too much term on his deal and threatens to bolt to Russia every year if things don't go his way.

Stempniak is of minor interest, but I'm certainly not giving up quality assets for a guy who is that inconsistent offensively.

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06-24-2013, 10:01 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
I agree. And it's unjustified too. I think of some of the other similar type players that got those big contracts, and at least they were versatile. Joel Ward, for example, was one of Nashville's top PKers. The Caps haven't used him that way, much, but that was a part of his game. Bickell doesn't PK. He barely plays the PP. But is very effective at ES. I would love to have him on the team, but he's going to get paid more than his value.
Absolutely, I'll even go out and say that Joel Ward is an overall better player than Bickell. Playing with Toews and Kane will make just about anyone look good. Look at Saad now. Decent player, but looks like no more than a career 3rd liner out there with Shaw and Stalberg. Playing with franchise talent helps.

Stay the course and let kids fight it out for spots. Maybe bring back Clowe if he comes back cheap, losing that other 2nd rounder really hurts though. Him and Zuccarello complement each other really well, I'd gamble. He'll be playing for a retirement contract too...one year deal for him to prove he can still play and be healthy. Look at Briere if Clowe's demands are asinine.

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06-24-2013, 10:04 AM
  #86
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All of the role players get 3 and 4 year contracts now. Handing out that type of contract is a big mistake. Many of the those players aren't upgrades over Boyle,Powe,Asham and Pyatt. Its just rearranging the deck charts. Its not worth it.
I agree 100%.

I think we have a big need to rearrange the set-up of this team to suit AV. But we can get pretty far with the players we have while not becoming too soft.

Hagelin, Kreider, JT Miller, Lindberg, Fasth and maybe even Hrivik are atleast options for speed/skill on the bottom lines.

We have a bunch of players besides them that AV can work with (Boyle, Pyatt, Dorsett, Powe, Asham, Haley and co). They are definitely not hand picked for him, but it's not spending the summer to rearrange that deck and start from scratch in terms of chemistry etc in October to get 2-3 new guys.

Fasth is closer than people might think.

JT Miller will have improved over the summer.

Kreider will get a look higher up in the lineup early on, but I don't know if he is ready for a top 2 line role next season. Looking at how he looked on avg last season, he was not ready for a 4th line role (while he did improve at the end).

Lindberg is a good fit atleast for AV.

My point is just, AV will not know what he have before after camp is over. 4 kids, not 2, will challenge for spots during the season. Not worth overpaying to get another grinder.

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06-24-2013, 10:05 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
There's virtually nothing that's available from Calgary that would interest me. Cammalleri is a good player, but are we really going to be able to retain him beyond next year? Not to mention he's 31 and notoriously inconsistent. Glencross isn't going anywhere unless there's a cattle ranch within 15 miles where he can 'rope' in his free time. Wideman has a big contract. Giordano plays the wrong side. Stajan sucks. Tanguay will be 34 in November and has 3 more years left on his deal. Hudler has too much term on his deal and threatens to bolt to Russia every year if things don't go his way.

Stempniak is of minor interest, but I'm certainly not giving up quality assets for a guy who is that inconsistent offensively.
I feel the exact same way. See: my rant of a post on the last page. The only thing that would interest me is something around Del Zotto and the #6 overall. Even then, I'm not sure if Feaster would consider it. He would be smart to though, his team needs young, established talent, and fast. Rangers take a big risk, but if it means getting Nichushkin, Lindholm, Monahan, or even Barkov if he falls, it's a home run.

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06-24-2013, 10:08 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
There's virtually nothing that's available from Calgary that would interest me. Cammalleri is a good player, but are we really going to be able to retain him beyond next year? Not to mention he's 31 and notoriously inconsistent. Glencross isn't going anywhere unless there's a cattle ranch within 15 miles where he can 'rope' in his free time. Wideman has a big contract. Giordano plays the wrong side. Stajan sucks. Tanguay will be 34 in November and has 3 more years left on his deal. Hudler has too much term on his deal and threatens to bolt to Russia every year if things don't go his way.

Stempniak is of minor interest, but I'm certainly not giving up quality assets for a guy who is that inconsistent offensively.
I actually think Cammalerri wouldn't be a bad option if he came very cheap and the Rangers could unload a couple of people like Powe and Pyatt. Let him try and prove himself. He would increase the skill on this team and he would help the PP for sure.

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06-24-2013, 10:10 AM
  #89
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Asham has no spot on the team. Nash,Callahan,Zuccarello and Dorsett. Fasth will challenge for a spot. Thomas will be a 2nd year pro. Trade Asham. He played for all of the teams in the Atlantic. The NHL hasn't announced the names of the new divisions but there are 3 new teams joining the Atlantic division teams. He needs to play for all three of those teams. Caps. Canes. Jackets. He only makes $1M in cap and salary. Last year of his contract.

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06-24-2013, 10:10 AM
  #90
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I actually think Cammalerri wouldn't be a bad option if he came very cheap and the Rangers could unload a couple of people like Powe and Pyatt. Let him try and prove himself. He would increase the skill on this team and he would help the PP for sure.
I'd want Calgary to retain some of Cammaleri's salary if we were to acquire him, too.

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06-24-2013, 10:12 AM
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I'd want Calgary to retain some of Cammaleri's salary if we were to acquire him, though.
For 1 season? If they said we could unload Pyatt + Powe/Asham on them for Cammalerri or Pyatt + Asham/Powe + Fast/Hrivik/Miller/Lindberg for Cammalerri (At half the cap hit) I take the first one.

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06-24-2013, 10:12 AM
  #92
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I'd want Calgary to retain some of Cammaleri's salary if we were to acquire him, though.
That's the only way I'd take him. If Calgary retains $2 million of the $6 million he's owed so the Rangers only pay $4 million, I'm on board.

EDIT: Viper, he'll come cheap. His value is in the toilet since he came out outright and said he wanted out. Pyatt, Powe, and prospect NOT named Fast, Miller, Skjei, Lindberg, or Kreider should do it.

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06-24-2013, 10:14 AM
  #93
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For 1 season? If they said we could unload Pyatt + Powe/Asham on them for Cammalerri or Pyatt + Asham/Powe + Fast/Hrivik/Miller/Lindberg for Cammalerri (At half the cap hit) I take the first one.
Sure. But how about for 1/4 of the hit? Cammalleri is probably worth $4.5m to a team, in terms of production, but not $6m.

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06-24-2013, 10:16 AM
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Sure. But how about for 1/4 of the hit? Cammalleri is probably worth $4.5m to a team, in terms of production, but not $6m.
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Originally Posted by I Eat Crow View Post
That's the only way I'd take him. If Calgary retains $2 million of the $6 million he's owed so the Rangers only pay $4 million, I'm on board.

EDIT: Viper, he'll come cheap. His value is in the toilet since he came out outright and said he wanted out. Pyatt, Powe, and prospect NOT named Fast, Miller, Skjei, Lindberg, or Kreider should do it.
If that is the case, than I hope they retain some. I just want to make sure they can unload Pyatt and Powe/Asham. That's 2.55 in savings right there and I don't have to watch them play.

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06-24-2013, 10:21 AM
  #95
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Cammalieri makes $7M in salary. He is another lefty. $6M cap hit. The previous Rangers regime lead by Maloney and Renney liked Cammalieri. They tried to acquire him at the 2004 draft. That was a very long time ago. The Rangers have two righties in Stepan and Callahan. One more year on the contract.

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06-24-2013, 10:22 AM
  #96
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If that is the case, than I hope they retain some. I just want to make sure they can unload Pyatt and Powe/Asham. That's 2.55 in savings right there and I don't have to watch them play.
I don't get what the problem is with Asham and Powe. They are what they are, one fights more, can score an odd goal so he's not useless. Powe can PK. Both are 4th line but at a million its not bad depth to have as the 12/13th Forwards

Pyatt needs to go. Funny how an extra 500 K on the cap makes me think that but it does.

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06-24-2013, 10:28 AM
  #97
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You know, not for nothing, but Tanguay is on a very reasonable contract ($3.5m per) for a player that has averaged 58 points per 82 over the last 5 years. 3 years left on the deal would take him to 36. Risk is, of course, that his game falls off the cliff during that time.

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06-24-2013, 10:29 AM
  #98
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You know, not for nothing, but Tanguay is on a very reasonable contract ($3.5m per) for a player that has averaged 58 points per 82 over the last 5 years. 3 years left on the deal would take him to 36. Risk is, of course, that his game falls off the cliff during that time.
That's the scary part, why I don't think/hope Rangers should do that deal

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06-24-2013, 10:33 AM
  #99
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That's the scary part, why I don't think/hope Rangers should do that deal
On the other hand, he's already shown he can compete in his 32 and 33 year old years. Those are the kinds of guys you want, if you're acquiring players at that age. As opposed to acquiring guys at the beginning of their 30s hoping they'll adjust well.

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06-24-2013, 10:34 AM
  #100
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I feel the exact same way. See: my rant of a post on the last page. The only thing that would interest me is something around Del Zotto and the #6 overall. Even then, I'm not sure if Feaster would consider it. He would be smart to though, his team needs young, established talent, and fast. Rangers take a big risk, but if it means getting Nichushkin, Lindholm, Monahan, or even Barkov if he falls, it's a home run.
I'd also consider MDZ for Baertschi, but doubt calgary would go for that.

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