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2013 Offseason Thread Part IV: SCF, end. Trades, begin.

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06-24-2013, 10:36 AM
  #101
RangerBoy
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The Rangers are not trading JT Miller for a player with one year remaining on his contract. AV made a comment about management telling him a couple of kids are on the cusp of making the team. He sat down with Sather,Gorton and Schoenfeld and they gave him the lay of the land. Miller is one of those kids. Kreider is the other.

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06-24-2013, 10:37 AM
  #102
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On the other hand, he's already shown he can compete in his 32 and 33 year old years. Those are the kinds of guys you want, if you're acquiring players at that age. As opposed to acquiring guys at the beginning of their 30s hoping they'll adjust well.
Well, believe big bad Brad is 33... Look at his situation..

I understand, it's a big risk... too big unfortunately. We shouldn't be taking chances on 34 year olds

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06-24-2013, 10:46 AM
  #103
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From Calgary, I'd like Stempniak for a mid rd pick, but no more than that. He can be the 3RW.

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06-24-2013, 10:46 AM
  #104
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I don't get what the problem is with Asham and Powe. They are what they are, one fights more, can score an odd goal so he's not useless. Powe can PK. Both are 4th line but at a million its not bad depth to have as the 12/13th Forwards

Pyatt needs to go. Funny how an extra 500 K on the cap makes me think that but it does.
1 dimensional. 1 dimensional bottom-6 players are not good for their role. They need to do multiple things or else the top-6 guys are asked to play too many minutes over a long season.

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06-24-2013, 10:46 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The Rangers are not trading JT Miller for a player with one year remaining on his contract. AV made a comment about management telling him a couple of kids are on the cusp of making the team. He sat down with Sather,Gorton and Schoenfeld and they gave him the lay of the land. Miller is one of those kids. Kreider is the other.
I thought the other kid in that discussion was Lindberg.

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06-24-2013, 10:47 AM
  #106
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I just don't see a situation where we can keep Cammalleri beyond the upcoming season. He'll want a retirement contract. No thanks.

Bite the bullet and bring in someone who can be a part of the team beyond next season. Preferably a righty. I still advocate a three-way deal between Winnipeg, St. Louis, and the Rangers. Perron to NYR, MDZ to Winnipeg, Burmistrov to St Louis. Fits the needs of each team. Add pieces to balance.

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06-24-2013, 10:49 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by azaloum90 View Post
Well, believe big bad Brad is 33... Look at his situation..

I understand, it's a big risk... too big unfortunately. We shouldn't be taking chances on 34 year olds
Richards is the exact situation I was saying Tanguay isn't. A player signed in his early 30s with the hope that he'd adjust well to declining ability. Tanguay has proven that he can adjust well to declining ability.

Tanguay's cap hit is also $3m less than Richards.

I'm not really strongly advocating bringing him in. Just playing a little devil's advocate here.

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06-24-2013, 10:49 AM
  #108
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I can really live with Mash on the 4th line with Boyle and Dorsett.
I know he didn't show much in his cup of tea last season, but he has the size/skills to be a productive 4th liner.
McLeod is another option.
Nystrom is another option, but I suspect he will re-sign with the stars.

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06-24-2013, 10:55 AM
  #109
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I'd also consider MDZ for Baertschi, but doubt calgary would go for that.
I doubt it too. He's untouchable I think though. Kid's a pure sniper, I like him.

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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
1 dimensional. 1 dimensional bottom-6 players are not good for their role. They need to do multiple things or else the top-6 guys are asked to play too many minutes over a long season.
Yeah..to elaborate, I wouldn't shed any tears if Pyatt wasn't on the team next season. He'd be a nice player to have in the playoffs, is all. Injuries happen, you need depth up and down the line up.


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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I just don't see a situation where we can keep Cammalleri beyond the upcoming season. He'll want a retirement contract. No thanks.

Bite the bullet and bring in someone who can be a part of the team beyond next season. Preferably a righty. I still advocate a three-way deal between Winnipeg, St. Louis, and the Rangers. Perron to NYR, MDZ to Winnipeg, Burmistrov to St Louis. Fits the needs of each team. Add pieces to balance.
I wouldn't want Cammy after next year either, which is why I wouldn't give up anything of substantial value for him. He can be looked at if the return market for Del Zotto isn't what management hopes, but only after looking over that option first.

In the deal you proposed, Winnepeg wins big. To be honest, I'd be pretty furious if the Rangers got Perron, whom, while a good player, missed a significant amount of time with a concussion. Who knows if he can regain his form. Del Zotto could get another player back that is as good without the injury rap sheet. If St. Louis wants Del Zotto, I want Tarasenko.

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06-24-2013, 11:02 AM
  #110
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If you really think about it, we have not had a legit. 3rd line for many years. In essense, we've had two 4th lines. Even Prust/Boyle/Fed at the best were really a glorified 4th line. A real 3rd line needs to contribute offensively perhaps to the tune of each player scoring 15-20 goals.

Our 3rd line for next year can go one of two ways. If AV envisions a 3rd line as being primarily a checking line than we are likely looking at more of Boyle and perhaps Dorsett.

If AV is not tied to that somewhat traditional mode of thinking, a 3rd line could be made up of younger players such as Lindberg and perhaps Fast.

Strange how legit 3rd liners capable of scoring 15-20 goals are almost harder to come by then 1st or 2nd liners. Perhaps because the cap makes many teams top heavy with 1st or 2nd line talent and they skimp on developing 3rd liners and just fill in, as we have done, with guys who are really 4th liners.

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06-24-2013, 11:03 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by I Eat Crow View Post
I wouldn't want Cammy after next year either, which is why I wouldn't give up anything of substantial value for him. He can be looked at if the return market for Del Zotto isn't what management hopes, but only after looking over that option first.

In the deal you proposed, Winnepeg wins big. To be honest, I'd be pretty furious if the Rangers got Perron, whom, while a good player, missed a significant amount of time with a concussion. Who knows if he can regain his form. Del Zotto could get another player back that is as good without the injury rap sheet. If St. Louis wants Del Zotto, I want Tarasenko.
St. Louis doesn't want Del Zotto, so why would they put Tarasenko in the deal? It's about three teams getting the pieces they want. That deal isn't for those three players straight across. There would be other pieces added to balance it out. The Blues need a center, the Rangers need a scoring winger, and the Jets need a top-4 LHD to slot in behind Enstrom. You're never going to acquire a player if you're afraid of concussions. Tarasenko has already missed 10 games thanks to a concussion.

There's no magic bullet here. The Rangers aren't going to land the perfect player in exchange for Del Zotto. Goligoski got Neal and Niskanen. Neal can't do anything without Malkin feeding him the puck. He was an underachieving scoring winger who rarely used his body in Dallas. Now he has better chemistry with his center and is putting up great numbers. He has warts just like most complimentary forwards.

Perron is signed to a cap friendly deal for a few more years, plays both wings, can score and create plays, and can be a chippy player as well. Del Zotto isn't going to land a perfect piece.

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06-24-2013, 11:13 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
St. Louis doesn't want Del Zotto, so why would they put Tarasenko in the deal? It's about three teams getting the pieces they want. That deal isn't for those three players straight across. There would be other pieces added to balance it out. The Blues need a center, the Rangers need a scoring winger, and the Jets need a top-4 LHD to slot in behind Enstrom. You're never going to acquire a player if you're afraid of concussions. Tarasenko has already missed 10 games thanks to a concussion.

There's no magic bullet here. The Rangers aren't going to land the perfect player in exchange for Del Zotto. Goligoski got Neal and Niskanen. Neal can't do anything without Malkin feeding him the puck. He was an underachieving scoring winger who rarely used his body in Dallas. Now he has better chemistry with his center and is putting up great numbers. He has warts just like most complimentary forwards.

Perron is signed to a cap friendly deal for a few more years, plays both wings, can score and create plays, and can be a chippy player as well. Del Zotto isn't going to land a perfect piece.
I realized my mistake a bit after I hit "submit reply". St. Louis would be getting Burmistrov and not Del Zotto. Regardless, my point on Winnepeg winning that deal big stands. Winnepeg could toss a 2nd or 3rd rounder to us in your proposed deal and I could live with it.

I agree Perron is a nice forward, but going from 21 goals in 58 games in 2012 to only 10 in 48 is a bit alarming as far as goal totals go. A Blues fan's perspective would really help here. Maybe he was used in a 2nd or 3rd line role with only 2nd unit PP time.

If we're getting 30 goal a season Perron I like it, right handed shot to boot. Injuries concern me though as I mentioned. I can live with it more now than I did with my initial knee jerk reaction. I thought he sustained the concussion last year rather than two years ago for some reason. He's proven he can be healthy since then playing all 48 games this past season.

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06-24-2013, 11:27 AM
  #113
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What we need is add size and grit and have multidimensional 4th liners rather than 1 or 2 (at best) dimensional ones that we mostly have now.

That is why I think adding the likes of Morrow, Jones, Lapierre, Chipchura, and Nystrom would help a lot more than the likes of Asham, Pyatt, Powe, and Haley.

Most of these guys are big, strong, young, good skaters, hit hard, able to score good amounts, and some are solid fighters and penalty killers.

Lapierre played under AV so that one is a no brainer. Chipchura I think I like a bit more than Nystrom and pick one of Jones or Morrow.

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06-24-2013, 11:36 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Vigneault13 View Post
What we need is add size and grit and have multidimensional 4th liners rather than 1 or 2 (at best) dimensional ones that we mostly have now.

That is why I think adding the likes of Morrow, Jones, Lapierre, Chipchura, and Nystrom would help a lot more than the likes of Asham, Pyatt, Powe, and Haley.

Most of these guys are big, strong, young, good skaters, hit hard, able to score good amounts, and some are solid fighters and penalty killers.

Lapierre played under AV so that one is a no brainer. Chipchura I think I like a bit more than Nystrom and pick one of Jones or Morrow.
didnt AV coach Chipchura in his first year or two in the NHL as part of the Habs???

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06-24-2013, 11:38 AM
  #115
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didnt AV coach Chipchura in his first year or two in the NHL as part of the Habs???
No. He stopped coaching the Habs when Chipchura was 14.

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06-24-2013, 11:39 AM
  #116
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I thought the other kid in that discussion was Lindberg.
If Lindberg was the one of the players AV was referring to along with Miller,that's fine. I would have no issue with Miller and Lindberg being the 3rd and 4th centers with Kreider is the top 6. Chicago is 1 game away from Cup with 2 young players in the middle and Saad on the left side being a top 6-9 forward for the entire season.

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06-24-2013, 11:44 AM
  #117
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Miller and Lindberg as the 3/4c is awful depth. I thought we wanted depth? This dream that Lindberg can just come in here and play well enough to be in the top 9 is just that a dream

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06-24-2013, 11:45 AM
  #118
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I would take either Glencross or Tanguay from Calgary and that's about it really. Both can score

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06-24-2013, 11:49 AM
  #119
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Miller and Lindberg as the 3/4c is awful depth. I thought we wanted depth? This dream that Lindberg can just come in here and play well enough to be in the top 9 is just that a dream
I think we'll see Miller, Lindberg and Boyle fighting it out for the bottom two center spots in training camp.

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06-24-2013, 11:50 AM
  #120
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I like Cammalleri a lot, as a scoring left winger. Power play guy.

But, Asham is a warrior. I wouldn't so so quick to write off Boyle and Asham as important bottom 6 players.

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06-24-2013, 11:53 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Nystrom is a 4th liner. However the Rangers finished 1st 2 years ago with Fedotenko and Prust on the 3rd line.

Nystrom can't score? He had 16 goals last year. 7 goals and 11 points in 48 games this year. Great PKer.

Asham had 2 goals and 2 points in 27 games.

Pyatt had 6 goals and 11 points. Provides nothing in terms of PKing or PP. Got a lot of playing time.

Powe had 0 goals and 0 points in 42 games this season. 0.

How is he not an upgrade?
He is an upgrade but we already have guys under contract and these random poor 3rd/good 4th liners always get way overpaid.

And the years before this he had 4 goals, 11 goals, 5 goals (age 25-27 so not like when he was too young). He averages maybe 15 points a year. The two years he scores a bunch (this and last) were the two years his shooing % was 50% above his career average (and higher than that if you take out these two years since the reason his career avg is at 10% and now lower is because these two years at 15% brought it up).

Pyatt is better offensively than him. He's pretty much always good for 10 goals 25 pts or so. That's like Nystroms ceiling.
Even Asham has almost the exact same offensive numbers as Nystrom over the past several years (~20 pt guy and he does it playing 9 mins a game to Nystroms 14)

Nystrom even got paid 1.4M last year soyou know that's going up so right away it's already too much money.

Powe provides completely nothing offensively, I obviously agree there.

My point is we don't need to pay 1.5-2M+ or whatever for guys with no offense when what we need is one more top 6/top 9 winger. You can fill in the 4th line with min contract guys basically.

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06-24-2013, 11:55 AM
  #122
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Asham if he can stay on the ice would be solid for a 4th liner, some speed and a great shot and a grinder who will fight. Him and Boyle on the 4th line is ok with me. Can either Dorsett or Asham play the left side?

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06-24-2013, 12:00 PM
  #123
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Asham could play left, if you lined up...

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
Cammalleri-Brassard-Zuccarello
Kreider-Miller-Callahan
Asham-Boyle-Dorsett

You have a balanced team, although the 2nd line is a horror show defensively.

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06-24-2013, 12:00 PM
  #124
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Asham if he can stay on the ice would be solid for a 4th liner, some speed and a great shot and a grinder who will fight. Him and Boyle on the 4th line is ok with me. Can either Dorsett or Asham play the left side?
I wouldn't dare try playing Asham on the left side.

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06-24-2013, 12:07 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Asham could play left, if you lined up...

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
Cammalleri-Brassard-Zuccarello
Kreider-Miller-Callahan
Asham-Boyle-Dorsett

You have a balanced team, although the 2nd line is a horror show defensively.
I agree with the premise. But I would rather someone better than Asham at 4LW. McLeod or Nystrom.

Just switch the lines up:

Cammalleri-Stepan-Nash
Kreider-Brassard-Callahan
Hagelin-Lindberg/Miller-MZA
McLeod/Nystrom-Boyle-Dorsett
Asham/Powe/Haley

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