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2013 NHL Draft Talk Part V: Flyers own the 11th overall pick

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Old
06-24-2013, 11:38 AM
  #801
poneill27
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The Hockey Writers final top 90 has Morrissey at 11

http://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-draf...pect-rankings/

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06-24-2013, 11:40 AM
  #802
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Would Nick Petan be available in the 3rd round?
I doubt it. Someone is going to take a chance on someone who led all draft eligible players in scoring.

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06-24-2013, 12:07 PM
  #803
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Morrissey or bust for me

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06-24-2013, 12:22 PM
  #804
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Would Nick Petan be available in the 3rd round?
Late 1st, early 2nd. A healthy tumble would be late 2nd. So, no.

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06-24-2013, 12:26 PM
  #805
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Originally Posted by poneill27 View Post
The Hockey Writers final top 90 has Morrissey at 11

http://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-draf...pect-rankings/
Mantha is the 41 too. Wow those rankings are way different than most.

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06-24-2013, 12:33 PM
  #806
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I could deal with Morrissey and Mantha.

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06-24-2013, 12:34 PM
  #807
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I'd rather have Rist at 11th and Mantha/Lodge at 41st.

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06-24-2013, 12:35 PM
  #808
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Originally Posted by poneill27 View Post
The Hockey Writers final top 90 has Morrissey at 11

http://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-draf...pect-rankings/
And Ristolainen at 6.

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06-24-2013, 12:39 PM
  #809
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Being as honest as I can, I wouldn't spend too much time wrapping my head around something like this from THW. It's like fan fiction. I know those guys are passionate about hockey, but I'd trust the professional scouting services (and even they can be a stretch at times in their effort to make sales) a lot sooner than Bleacher Report or THW.

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06-24-2013, 12:45 PM
  #810
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
Being as honest as I can, I wouldn't spend too much time wrapping my head around something like this from THW. It's like fan fiction. I know those guys are passionate about hockey, but I'd trust the professional scouting services (and even they can be a stretch at times in their effort to make sales) a lot sooner than Bleacher Report or THW.
Honestly the professional guys are all over the place too. Most guys have similar top 7-10 but after that there really is no consistency.

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06-24-2013, 12:49 PM
  #811
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
Being as honest as I can, I wouldn't spend too much time wrapping my head around something like this from THW. It's like fan fiction. I know those guys are passionate about hockey, but I'd trust the professional scouting services (and even they can be a stretch at times in their effort to make sales) a lot sooner than Bleacher Report or THW.
Honestly I wouldn't put stock into anything related to draft rankings, no matter who it's from.

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06-24-2013, 12:52 PM
  #812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
Being as honest as I can, I wouldn't spend too much time wrapping my head around something like this from THW. It's like fan fiction. I know those guys are passionate about hockey, but I'd trust the professional scouting services (and even they can be a stretch at times in their effort to make sales) a lot sooner than Bleacher Report or THW.
Yeah that was my thinking. No offense to the guys at THW, because I do read them on a relatively normal basis and enjoy most of their stuff, but I would be surpised if the author has actually seen enough tape on these guys to really formulate accurate rankings, especially on a top 90 list. I worked for a site like this when I was in college, going back and reading some of my articles makes me laugh now seeing what I wrote and how very unreliable I was. Haha.

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06-24-2013, 12:53 PM
  #813
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Honestly the professional guys are all over the place too. Most guys have similar top 7-10 but after that there really is no consistency.
This is an inexact science for sure. That said, THW is no different than you or I developing the list. It shouldn't change anyone else's opinion of who we should take or pass on.

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06-24-2013, 12:56 PM
  #814
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
Honestly I wouldn't put stock into anything related to draft rankings, no matter who it's from.
Depends. Some of the scoring based systems can help you understand a the particular strengths and weaknesses of the players versus their draft class.

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06-24-2013, 01:00 PM
  #815
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
Anthony San Filippo's mock has them taking Morin. He says they really like Zadorov, but he has him gone at 10.
He's also a paid writer for the Flyers, so he's obviously talking to a few people within the organization.

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06-24-2013, 01:00 PM
  #816
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arent a lot of these guys from 8-20 or so pretty much lumped together? there seems to be a wide variety of opinions on who the Flyers should grab at 11.

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06-24-2013, 01:11 PM
  #817
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
arent a lot of these guys from 8-20 or so pretty much lumped together? there seems to be a wide variety of opinions on who the Flyers should grab at 11.
Maybe even more. I can't tell you how many rankings and mocks I've seen where a player is projected right outside the top 10 then they'll be in the late 1st/early 2nd round in another projection. Pulock, Morin, Risto, Zad, Mantha to name a few all fit this description if I'm not misremembering.

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06-24-2013, 01:13 PM
  #818
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Yeah that was my thinking. No offense to the guys at THW, because I do read them on a relatively normal basis and enjoy most of their stuff, but I would be surpised if the author has actually seen enough tape on these guys to really formulate accurate rankings, especially on a top 90 list. I worked for a site like this when I was in college, going back and reading some of my articles makes me laugh now seeing what I wrote and how very unreliable I was. Haha.
I was one of the founding writers for THW back in the day. I left at a time it was hard for me to commit to so much on my plate at the same time, but a number of the guys who I started with are now writing professionally for various papers, news sources, and media outlets; not small ones either.

I also know of Reznik, and I can assure you that he puts as much time and effort into research as any professional.

The problem lies more in the access to information than anything else. Beat writers have access to organizational tools; at least moreso than amateurs. I will say this though. Nobody, not one soul, outside of the organization knows how the team ranks players going into draft day; writers included. They may be able to guess, but their guess is often as founded as any of yours.

All of these lists are pure speculation, but I agree with Reznik on some points; particularly that Morrissey and Ristolainen could very readily go off the board higher than expected. They could easily go higher than guys like Zadorov and Pulock. Nurse could also fall.

These are all things that we have discussed on these boards. It seems odd to discredit him just for thinking the same way that some of us do even if he was bold enough to put in on paper.

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06-24-2013, 01:59 PM
  #819
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
He's also a paid writer for the Flyers, so he's obviously talking to a few people within the organization.
He also said he would be surprised if the Flyers actually picked at 11. Should be a very interesting weekend up ahead.

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06-24-2013, 02:10 PM
  #820
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I was one of the founding writers for THW back in the day. I left at a time it was hard for me to commit to so much on my plate at the same time, but a number of the guys who I started with are now writing professionally for various papers, news sources, and media outlets; not small ones either.

I also know of Reznik, and I can assure you that he puts as much time and effort into research as any professional.

The problem lies more in the access to information than anything else. Beat writers have access to organizational tools; at least moreso than amateurs. I will say this though. Nobody, not one soul, outside of the organization knows how the team ranks players going into draft day; writers included. They may be able to guess, but their guess is often as founded as any of yours.

All of these lists are pure speculation, but I agree with Reznik on some points; particularly that Morrissey and Ristolainen could very readily go off the board higher than expected. They could easily go higher than guys like Zadorov and Pulock. Nurse could also fall.

These are all things that we have discussed on these boards. It seems odd to discredit him just for thinking the same way that some of us do even if he was bold enough to put in on paper.
I think the reason for the skepticism is for the reasons you just said. These guys don't have the resources that real scouts and beat writers have. I'm not trying to harsh on these guys or anything because like I said, I read THW and I wrote for a site similar to THW in college. The author may well be very well versed in hockey, but I am skeptical of his knowledge of a lot of these players. The guy probably knows more than me, I don't doubt that, but compared to others out there, I would question his credibility. I am not saying he is "wrong" or should not have posted this, I am just saying that I am not reading these rankings the same way I would read the ISS rankings. Always good to have another perspective on it, but this doesn't exactly hold a lot of weight.

Again, I am not trying to like hurt anyone's feelings or anything, but you are telling me that a guy writing a blog about hockey for THW ranking a guy like #74 Anton Slepyshev from the KHL has seen enough of him to actually make this a credible ranking? At least if it is someone like MacKenzie or someone from ISS or CSS or what have you, they have actually seen these guys play. Maybe the author of this post has seen these guys, but I am skeptical of that, I don't think it is unreasonable to be skeptical of that. These rankings should in no way be on the same level as other rankings.

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06-24-2013, 02:28 PM
  #821
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Draft ranking are always going to be subjective. Craig Button for example favors high potential over someone who might be a bit more NHL ready with more limited upside.

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06-24-2013, 02:34 PM
  #822
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Draft ranking are always going to be subjective. Craig Button for example favors high potential over someone who might be a bit more NHL ready with more limited upside.
I think the point is that a guy like Button is presumed to have seen a lot more of these guys. Yes it is possible that someone from the THW has, in fact, seen more of these players. But it is not likely. So if Craig Button ranks guys 1-90, people can safely assume that he knows what he is talking about. If I rank guys 1-90, I don't think too many people would feel that it holds as much weight as Craig Button.

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06-24-2013, 02:41 PM
  #823
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I think the point is that a guy like Button is presumed to have seen a lot more of these guys. Yes it is possible that someone from the THW has, in fact, seen more of these players. But it is not likely. So if Craig Button ranks guys 1-90, people can safely assume that he knows what he is talking about. If I rank guys 1-90, I don't think too many people would feel that it holds as much weight as Craig Button.
I can confirm this

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06-24-2013, 02:45 PM
  #824
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
I can confirm this
Bro, my rankings are legit.

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06-24-2013, 03:31 PM
  #825
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I think the reason for the skepticism is for the reasons you just said. These guys don't have the resources that real scouts and beat writers have. I'm not trying to harsh on these guys or anything because like I said, I read THW and I wrote for a site similar to THW in college. The author may well be very well versed in hockey, but I am skeptical of his knowledge of a lot of these players. The guy probably knows more than me, I don't doubt that, but compared to others out there, I would question his credibility. I am not saying he is "wrong" or should not have posted this, I am just saying that I am not reading these rankings the same way I would read the ISS rankings. Always good to have another perspective on it, but this doesn't exactly hold a lot of weight.

Again, I am not trying to like hurt anyone's feelings or anything, but you are telling me that a guy writing a blog about hockey for THW ranking a guy like #74 Anton Slepyshev from the KHL has seen enough of him to actually make this a credible ranking? At least if it is someone like MacKenzie or someone from ISS or CSS or what have you, they have actually seen these guys play. Maybe the author of this post has seen these guys, but I am skeptical of that, I don't think it is unreasonable to be skeptical of that. These rankings should in no way be on the same level as other rankings.
In fairness to ISS and CSB, they also use a lot of video with regards to scouting. A lot of times, they have a scout already located in a place like Kazakhstan or Uzbekistan or some remote town on the outskirts of Helsinki and a lot of time, the scout there has access to video and the video is then forwarded to the rest of the scouts to view. So, if someone from THW has access to the video that CSB or ISS use, then yes, it's very possible that someone has watched just as much video as someone from CSB or ISS.

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