HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, expansion and relocation, and NHL revenues.

CHL (junior) considering banning European goalies; UPD 2013 last draft, 1st rnd only

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-11-2013, 04:24 PM
  #101
Canadiens1958
Registered User
 
Canadiens1958's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 11,868
vCash: 500
Malcolm Subban

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko604 View Post
I wouldn't say their isn't a crisis, so to speak. Since 2003, only Marc-Andre Fluery Brian Elliot, Corey Crawford, Devan Dubnyk, Carey Price, Steve Mason and James Reimer have become starters or at least have made a significant impact on their teams at one point or another. You can throw Ward in there too, if you want. He was drafted in 02.

Couple that with dreadful performances in net at the World Juniors, and it does make you wonder what's going on. Now having said that, it doesn't mean that banning Euro goalies from the CHL is the answer.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Hockey Canada really needs to look at the cost and access to specialty coaching for the position. It's simply too expensive for kids to play in net, nevermind at an elite level.
When all is said and done it is still about applying the access to specialty coaching to actual game conditions at the elite CHL level as soon as possible.

Example Malcolm Subban, first round pick, Team Canada goalie at the WJC but lost a year of OHL development to an import:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php?pid=112814

2009-10 Belleville is not a playoff team whether they play the import or Malcom Subban:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...008202010.html

Yet Malcolm Subban's development was held back


Last edited by Canadiens1958: 06-11-2013 at 04:28 PM. Reason: link
Canadiens1958 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-11-2013, 09:46 PM
  #102
LadyStanley
Elasmobranchology-go
 
LadyStanley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North of the Tank
Country: United States
Posts: 58,345
vCash: 500
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/canada-...204347246.html

Wings goalie coach: challenge, not a crisis in developing next generation of goalies

Quote:
I think for sure over the last couple years that other countries have caught up to Canada in terms of determination and development, said Binnington.
For many followers of junior hockey, the banning of import goalies is nothing more than a convenient scapegoat for deeper issues. Its one thing to have talent, but its another to manage that talent properly. Development and the teaching of fundamentals happen long before a player is ready for the CHL. That happens in minor hockey.
And the cold hard fact is playing hockey in Canada has become an expensive undertaking. Many families can no longer afford the cost ice time, travel fees, equipment, etc. to keep their children playing. Its even pricier if your child happens to be a goaltender. It can become financially crippling and many talented goalies are forced out by economics.
Thats definitely a factor, said Bedard, a former OHL goaltender who also runs summer camps to help young goalies. I see kids who come to camp with a lot of potential but their equipment is very shabby. You can see that the parents have been stretched to the limit with the cost of the equipment. If you want everything custom and to keep up with everything, youre looking at a $2,500 to $4,000 bill from head-to-toe.

LadyStanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-12-2013, 10:53 AM
  #103
Rocko604
Registered User
 
Rocko604's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,738
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
When all is said and done it is still about applying the access to specialty coaching to actual game conditions at the elite CHL level as soon as possible.

Example Malcolm Subban, first round pick, Team Canada goalie at the WJC but lost a year of OHL development to an import:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php?pid=112814

2009-10 Belleville is not a playoff team whether they play the import or Malcom Subban:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...008202010.html

Yet Malcolm Subban's development was held back
Not necessarily the import's fault he "lost" that year. Looking at the roster, he still couldn't crack the line-up after Grubauer was traded. Peters and Teichmann are both Canadian.

Rocko604 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-19-2013, 06:30 PM
  #104
LadyStanley
Elasmobranchology-go
 
LadyStanley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North of the Tank
Country: United States
Posts: 58,345
vCash: 500
http://kuklaskorner.com/hockey/comme...ending-nor-eur

George Malik with columnist-take

Quote:
The honest truth regarding player development at all levels--regardless of whether we're talking about "Junior B" or "Junior A" hockey, Minor Midget, Major Junior (see: the QMJHL, OHL and WHL, a.k.a. the "CHL" collective), the USHL, the NAHL, NCAA hockey, European junior or professional hockey, the minor pro CHL, the ECHL, the AHL and even amateur underwater basket weaving--is an unpleasant one in terms of producing NHL players.

Put simply, NO developmental league generates oodles of thousand-game-playing, Cup-winning, Hall of Fame-making superstars. At best, and on a team-by-team basis, developmental leagues generate one NHL "regular" and a couple of call-up quality professional hockey "journeymen" per season, occasionally giving rise to a superstar. There are some exceptions in terms of the respective leagues' powerhouses (see: the OHL's Plymouth Whalers, who play in my backyard here in Southeastern Michigan), but the player development meat grinder is not particularly kind to its applicants' NHL dreams.

LadyStanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-19-2013, 08:13 PM
  #105
danishh
Dat Stache
 
danishh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: mtl/ott/somewhere
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,826
vCash: 500
don cherry had a bit of a rant on this tonight. Planned to talk more about it on saturday night.

he's predicting that CHL teams are going to load up on import Dmen now.

I dont buy it. There's only 2 import spots per team. Most teams are going to end up going one dman and one forward. It's not going to effect the development of CHL dmen significantly.

danishh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-19-2013, 09:44 PM
  #106
Dado
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Yet Malcolm Subban's development was held back
Subban's development wasn't held back by an import, it was held back by an archaic drafting system that has him stuck on the wrong team.

  Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2013, 02:31 PM
  #107
LadyStanley
Elasmobranchology-go
 
LadyStanley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North of the Tank
Country: United States
Posts: 58,345
vCash: 500
http://www.mississaugasteelheads.com...l-import-draft

Import draft 7/3. (Guessing delayed until after NHL entry draft due to lockout)

LadyStanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2013, 06:12 PM
  #108
Uncle Rotter
Registered User
 
Uncle Rotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Kelowna, B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,306
vCash: 500
Support for the ban from the IIHF website:
http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/n...ash=78d9a19115

Uncle Rotter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2013, 03:54 PM
  #109
LadyStanley
Elasmobranchology-go
 
LadyStanley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North of the Tank
Country: United States
Posts: 58,345
vCash: 500
http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/a...3-import-draft

And exactly ONE European goalie drafted in today's CHL import draft.

LadyStanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2013, 10:54 PM
  #110
gammaraej
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 92
vCash: 500
someone tell me why europeans are considered 'imports', where US born players are not. this rule is utterly ridiculous. chl should be the best junior hockey league in the world, why ban the worthy.

gammaraej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2013, 11:02 PM
  #111
danishh
Dat Stache
 
danishh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: mtl/ott/somewhere
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,826
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gammaraej View Post
someone tell me why europeans are considered 'imports', where US born players are not. this rule is utterly ridiculous. chl should be the best junior hockey league in the world, why ban the worthy.
the CHL is not just a canadian league. There are 9 american teams.

danishh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-03-2013, 11:51 PM
  #112
gammaraej
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 92
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
the CHL is not just a canadian league. There are 9 american teams.
Yeah, I know.

So this rule benefits American goalies as well. Maybe college hockey should complain, these major junior teams are gonna take away their top tier goalies even more now.

gammaraej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-04-2013, 07:11 AM
  #113
Canadiens1958
Registered User
 
Canadiens1958's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 11,868
vCash: 500
NCAA Route

Quote:
Originally Posted by gammaraej View Post
Yeah, I know.

So this rule benefits American goalies as well. Maybe college hockey should complain, these major junior teams are gonna take away their top tier goalies even more now.
Actually more and more hockey playing Europeans, including goalies, are taking the NCAA route, foregoing the financial benefits they receive from the CHL teams.

Likewise the younger ones are taking the prep school, private school route to North American hockey.

Also there is no cap on the number of European players an NCAA hockey program may have. Similarly no cap on prep or private school players.

Then you have the USHL option which is also growing in popularity and impact.


Last edited by Canadiens1958: 07-04-2013 at 07:13 AM. Reason: addition.
Canadiens1958 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-04-2013, 10:54 AM
  #114
gammaraej
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 92
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Actually more and more hockey playing Europeans, including goalies, are taking the NCAA route, foregoing the financial benefits they receive from the CHL teams.

Likewise the younger ones are taking the prep school, private school route to North American hockey.

Also there is no cap on the number of European players an NCAA hockey program may have. Similarly no cap on prep or private school players.

Then you have the USHL option which is also growing in popularity and impact.
That's definitely interesting to hear. I've thought all along that there should be no limit to the number of 'imports' in the CHL. I'd also like to see more players from 'non-traditional' countries getting a chance to play against higher competition. Be it in Junior B, or Division II or III schools.

The limit of goalies is disappointing.

gammaraej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2013, 05:55 PM
  #115
Shrimper
Trick or ruddy treat
 
Shrimper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Essex
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 76,036
vCash: 50
http://www.torontosun.com/2013/07/09...ason-nhl-moves

Whether it's true that Cherry said that or not (Isn't the Sun un-reliable?) I have a problem with this quote;

Quote:
On the new junior rule disallowing European goaltenders:

Don: “Three out of the four goaltenders in the Memorial Cup were Europeans. Let me explain what happens because I owned a junior club (Missisauga Ice Dogs). They don’t bring over young European goaltenders to train them. They bring older ones over. So our kids don’t have a chance. Our younger kids are backups. And when that older goaltender from Europe gets too old, they just go an get another older goalie, and we don’t have a chance. I don’t believe that they should be over here. It’s a Canadian hockey league for Canadian players, that’s what it is for, in fact they had a little motto “For Canadians to Learn Hockey” but they took that out. I believe the Canadian Hockey League is for Canadians...and you have to have Americans , I mean they have Canadians over there (American franchises). To tell you the truth I’ll let you in on a little secret...most of them (teams) don’t want them (Europeans) over here, but they are caught in a situation they can’t get out of. Canadians should always be first.”
I don't think that's right, out of the goalies this year only Makarov was a European. In the last 5 Memorial Cups there's been 2 European goalies in total (Grubauer (sp?) the other). There's 4 starting jobs per Memorial Cup so out of 20 spots, only 2 were taken by Europeans. That's 10%.

Shrimper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 05:45 AM
  #116
vorky
@vorkywh24
 
vorky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 7,208
vCash: 500
"I spoke to leadership of Q,O,W during CHL Import Draft and I was told that CHL is going to ban all Euros in next yrs, goalies are only a beginning," Dementiev, russian agent, told to championat.com. If I know, he is agent of Khokhlachev, Tarasenko and others. http://www.championat.com/hockey/art....html#comments


Last edited by vorky: 07-11-2013 at 05:57 AM.
vorky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-11-2013, 07:54 AM
  #117
Pilky01
I hate Dion Phanuef
 
Pilky01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: London
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,698
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Rotter View Post
Support for the ban from the IIHF website:
http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/n...ash=78d9a19115
The statistics cited certainly support his position.

I think people are only upset about this move because it 'sounds' xenophobic.

Maybe the CHL should have sold this move more as 'putting an end to CHL teams uprooting European teenagers and hauling them across the Atlantic so that owners might make a quick buck', and less as a 'European goalie ban'.

Pilky01 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:23 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.