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Interesting Info: Part XIII (All Jackets-related "tidbits" in here)

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06-12-2013, 03:07 AM
  #426
major major
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=425203



Cullen always has a tasteful point of view on things, really enjoy these articles heading into the draft.
I'm curious to hear why you call his viewpoint tasteful. It seems every sentence he writes is based on a statistic (questionable stats, I think) which is why I'm curious a scout would put so much stock in him. If Cullen's approach is what he says it is, and possession metrics outpredict all else, then that marginalizes scouts.

Here he is on Prout:

"A sixth-round pick in 2010, Dalton Prout had a standout plus-15 rating in only 28 games as a rookie, but that number was misleading in terms of how effective he actually was. Prout was bailed out by an extraordinarily high (.974) on-ice save percentage, which made up for his negative shot differentials. Nonetheless, he has good size and earned more responsibility as the season went along."

Did we see this or are these stats useless? I remember Prout being rock-solid in terms of defence. He was great at shutdown, and he moved the puck forward ably if not gracefully. Should I question this because of on-ice save percentage? It seems on-ice save percentage should be a stat that is attributable to the goalie and all five skaters, who try to keep pucks to the outside where shots are less dangerous. Why is this counting against Prout?


Last edited by major major: 06-12-2013 at 03:17 AM.
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06-12-2013, 06:09 AM
  #427
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Cullen's view is directed primarily as a Fantasy Player. Note the posting under "Fantasy News", so it's not surprising his is a statistical analysis.

I also find an interesting omission, not a single comment, yea or nay, on Vinny Prospal. One would think that if you were doing any kind of serious research on the Blue Jackets you might want to examine the effect of his returning or retiring.

Also, while he spends a great deal of time examining the situation on Bobrovsky (warranted), he makes no mention of the signing of EMac, and under his projected Cap geek roster he has the CBJ signing Mathieu Garon. Seriously??

He lists the club "needs" as one top six forward and one defenseman.

As a whole I find his analysis, while not particularly objectionable, as usual for most publications when it comes to the Blue Jackets, rather shallow and somewhat uninformed.

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06-12-2013, 09:35 AM
  #428
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Originally Posted by Roadman View Post

I also find an interesting omission, not a single comment, yea or nay, on Vinny Prospal. One would think that if you were doing any kind of serious research on the Blue Jackets you might want to examine the effect of his returning or retiring.
Thanks Roadman, I thought that was just me that noticed this. You'd think Prospal was 21st out of 20th in scoring....

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06-12-2013, 12:01 PM
  #429
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On Prout, the save percentage numbers aren't necessarily an indication that he was 'bailed out' by Bob. Good defenseman push shots to the outside, which makes them easier to stop. Prout being a shutdown defenseman, that would be a skill at which he would excel. High save percentage could also mean a high percentage of shots were easily stoppable, so it's a pretty useless stat IMO.

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06-12-2013, 01:14 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by gojackets1 View Post
On Prout, the save percentage numbers aren't necessarily an indication that he was 'bailed out' by Bob. Good defenseman push shots to the outside, which makes them easier to stop. Prout being a shutdown defenseman, that would be a skill at which he would excel. High save percentage could also mean a high percentage of shots were easily stoppable, so it's a pretty useless stat IMO.
Excellent point. I can appreciate the advanced stats but it's like playing the political games... Stats can be utilized to support any argument. That guy is hitting 0.300 amazing. He's awesome. Someone else can spin it by saying 70% of the time that guy doesn't hit for squat....

I'm not saying all stats are useless but they need to be taken with a grain of salt sometimes. Goals are goals but a 25 goal scorer can be more valuable than a 30 goal scorer depending on situations, etc.

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06-12-2013, 08:20 PM
  #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadman View Post
Cullen's view is directed primarily as a Fantasy Player. Note the posting under "Fantasy News", so it's not surprising his is a statistical analysis.

I also find an interesting omission, not a single comment, yea or nay, on Vinny Prospal. One would think that if you were doing any kind of serious research on the Blue Jackets you might want to examine the effect of his returning or retiring.

Also, while he spends a great deal of time examining the situation on Bobrovsky (warranted), he makes no mention of the signing of EMac, and under his projected Cap geek roster he has the CBJ signing Mathieu Garon. Seriously??

He lists the club "needs" as one top six forward and one defenseman.

As a whole I find his analysis, while not particularly objectionable, as usual for most publications when it comes to the Blue Jackets, rather shallow and somewhat uninformed.
Yes, I agree...shallow and pedantic.

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06-12-2013, 09:26 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by major major View Post
I'm curious to hear why you call his viewpoint tasteful. It seems every sentence he writes is based on a statistic (questionable stats, I think) which is why I'm curious a scout would put so much stock in him. If Cullen's approach is what he says it is, and possession metrics outpredict all else, then that marginalizes scouts.

Here he is on Prout:

"A sixth-round pick in 2010, Dalton Prout had a standout plus-15 rating in only 28 games as a rookie, but that number was misleading in terms of how effective he actually was. Prout was bailed out by an extraordinarily high (.974) on-ice save percentage, which made up for his negative shot differentials. Nonetheless, he has good size and earned more responsibility as the season went along."

Did we see this or are these stats useless? I remember Prout being rock-solid in terms of defence. He was great at shutdown, and he moved the puck forward ably if not gracefully. Should I question this because of on-ice save percentage? It seems on-ice save percentage should be a stat that is attributable to the goalie and all five skaters, who try to keep pucks to the outside where shots are less dangerous. Why is this counting against Prout?
Yes, how dare anyone make statistical analysis - and how dare anyone appreciate this sort of thing.

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06-13-2013, 12:21 AM
  #433
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
Yes, how dare anyone make statistical analysis - and how dare anyone appreciate this sort of thing.
Statistical analysis is what I do for a living, so you should know that I'm not saying "IT's all BS, God Dammit!" But in hockey a lot of it is shallow BS. There's publications all over the place where the writers look at a few stats and do their write-ups which don't jibe with what what actual fans see. How many Jackets games did Cullen watch this year? 2? I chose Prout to highlight how silly his approach can be but you can pick many others from his write-up.

BTW, I read most of Cullen's off-season game plans every year, and I've learned to decode his language back into stats-speak so I'm not deceived into thinking its a real reflection of how effective the players were. I just thought it odd that you were into it.

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06-15-2013, 12:01 AM
  #434
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Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post
Yes, how dare anyone make statistical analysis - and how dare anyone appreciate this sort of thing.
Far be it from me to pile on, but I think a lot of hockey writers have difficulty separating the meaningful from the interesting when it comes to stats or analytics (let alone both of them together).

Of course, from reading this thread on the main boards, they're not alone.

Not entirely related, but it reminds me of something that cracked me up a few years back. It was in a Yankees-Tigers game in August 2007, and Michael Kay (gag) was doing his usual annoying-as-hell commentary. Kay wouldn't shut up about the fact that Chien-Ming Wang (who was pitching) had an ERA of something like 0.25 when he was pitching with a full windup, compared to something like 8.50 when he was pitching from the stretch. He simply wouldn't leave this point alone and acted like he'd just discovered the Ark of the Covenant or something.

Of course, the conclusion that most people would draw (correctly, I might add) is that Kay couldn't seem to figure out that Wang gave up fewer runs by solo home run than all other methods combined.


Last edited by Mayor Bee: 06-15-2013 at 12:17 AM.
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06-15-2013, 01:34 AM
  #435
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Corsi is the advanced stat that I find most troubling. (It's basically a +/- of shot attempts, and it's what Scott Cullen means when he says someone struggled or succeeded at possession). Because there's way more shot attempts than goals or shots, it can be useful in expanding the sample size if that's a problem. But if you're not worried about sample size what's the point of including blocked shots and missed shots? Are they more predictive of future offence than current offence? I don't know but I doubt it.

There's more plain-vanilla advanced stats that I find to be easily useful, like points per 60 minutes 5 on 5, and zone starts and finishes.

Don Cherry had a hilarious and I think appropriate rant a few years back when Ron Maclean brought up Corsi. Ron Maclean mentioned a player's poor Corsi, and Don exploded at him. (The player's Corsi was mostly explained by the fact that he started in his own zone 2/3 of the time).

I can't find video. (Mayor, cue Don Cherry impression. Actually if you could do your Don Cherry impression on a daily basis, I would greatly appreciate it.)

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06-15-2013, 09:30 AM
  #436
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Originally Posted by major major View Post
corsi is the advanced stat that i find most troubling. (it's basically a +/- of shot attempts, and it's what scott cullen means when he says someone struggled or succeeded at possession). Because there's way more shot attempts than goals or shots, it can be useful in expanding the sample size if that's a problem. But if you're not worried about sample size what's the point of including blocked shots and missed shots? Are they more predictive of future offence than current offence? I don't know but i doubt it.

There's more plain-vanilla advanced stats that i find to be easily useful, like points per 60 minutes 5 on 5, and zone starts and finishes.

don cherry had a hilarious and i think appropriate rant a few years back when ron maclean brought up corsi. Ron maclean mentioned a player's poor corsi, and don exploded at him. (the player's corsi was mostly explained by the fact that he started in his own zone 2/3 of the time).

I can't find video. (mayor, cue don cherry impression. Actually if you could do your don cherry impression on a daily basis, i would greatly appreciate it.)
Begin Don Cherry rant mode
NOW LEMME TELL YA SOMETHING HERE, AND THIS IS FOR ALL YOU KIDS OUT THERE. BACK WHEN I WAS RIDING THE BUSES IN HERSHEY, THE GUYS WHO COULD COUNT TO 10 SAT UP IN FRONT WITH THE COACHES. THE GUYS WHO COULD ACTUALLY PUT THE PUCK IN THE NET SAT IN THE BACK. WE HAD A GUY NAMED DUNC FISHER WHO COULDN'T READ OR WRITE, BUT HE COULD SCORE MORE GOALS IN A GAME THAN THOSE SMART GUYS COULD THINK INTO THE NET IN A YEAR. BUT DUNC WAS FROM REGINA, AND YOU KNEW YOU COULD COUNT ON THOSE BIG OL' TOUGH WESTERN CANADIAN BOYS, NOT SOME HELMET-WEARING FRENCHIE.
End Don Cherry mode

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06-15-2013, 10:45 AM
  #437
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Begin Don Cherry rant mode
NOW LEMME TELL YA SOMETHING HERE, AND THIS IS FOR ALL YOU KIDS OUT THERE. BACK WHEN I WAS RIDING THE BUSES IN HERSHEY, THE GUYS WHO COULD COUNT TO 10 SAT UP IN FRONT WITH THE COACHES. THE GUYS WHO COULD ACTUALLY PUT THE PUCK IN THE NET SAT IN THE BACK. WE HAD A GUY NAMED DUNC FISHER WHO COULDN'T READ OR WRITE, BUT HE COULD SCORE MORE GOALS IN A GAME THAN THOSE SMART GUYS COULD THINK INTO THE NET IN A YEAR. BUT DUNC WAS FROM REGINA, AND YOU KNEW YOU COULD COUNT ON THOSE BIG OL' TOUGH WESTERN CANADIAN BOYS, NOT SOME HELMET-WEARING FRENCHIE.
End Don Cherry mode

You've captured the entire essence of the man.

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06-23-2013, 08:53 AM
  #438
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Told #CBJ will send qualifying offers early this week to those RFAs whose rights they wish to maintain, rather than push early-July deadline

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06-24-2013, 06:20 PM
  #439
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http://bluejacketsxtra.dispatch.com/...ebook-624.html

Surprised that no one has posted this here yet because even a Finnish news site had an article about it. Jarmo Kekäläinen will try to go through the same summer workout routine than the players

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06-24-2013, 06:34 PM
  #440
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Originally Posted by Miggus View Post
http://bluejacketsxtra.dispatch.com/...ebook-624.html

Surprised that no one has posted this here yet because even a Finnish news site had an article about it. Jarmo Kekäläinen will try to go through the same summer workout routine than the players
I had not seen that, Miggus, thanks for posting the link. I like the first comment:

I'm going to have a bumper sticker made: "My GM can kick your GM's ass!"

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07-08-2013, 10:04 PM
  #441
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I'm heading to Toronto in a couple of weeks and I was seeing if they have anything going on at the Hockey Hall of Fame.

There is 'Summer Fan Days' where every team gets one day and there's a discount if you show up that day wearing that team's attire. Also you get a free hockey card of the team's captain.

I was curious who'd they have as the CBJ 'captain' and it is Derek Dorsett. I realize he was alternate captain occasionally, but it seemed like a strange choice when he left at the trade deadline (I understand why Alfie, Streit and Lecavalier are there), he was hurt most of the season and probably only wore the A a handful of times (can't remember how many) last year. Very surprised it wasn't Prospal, JJ, Dubi or even Umberger.

Here's the link:
http://www.hhof.com/htmlNewsPromo/promoNHLFanDays.shtml

Anyways, I just found it an interesting tidbit....that is all.

Edit: Just looked at it closer. They don't have Iginla for Calgary and he was gone at trade deadline, too. Weird - did they not actually ask someone who it should be for the CBJ? No respect...

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07-08-2013, 10:10 PM
  #442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanabijou View Post
I'm heading to Toronto in a couple of weeks and I was seeing if they have anything going on at the Hockey Hall of Fame.

There is 'Summer Fan Days' where every team gets one day and there's a discount if you show up that day wearing that team's attire. Also you get a free hockey card of the team's captain.

I was curious who'd they have as the CBJ 'captain' and it is Derek Dorsett. I realize he was alternate captain occasionally, but it seemed like a strange choice when he left at the trade deadline (I understand why Alfie, Streit and Lecavalier are there), he was hurt most of the season and probably only wore the A a handful of times (can't remember how many) last year. Very surprised it wasn't Prospal, JJ, Dubi or even Umberger.

Here's the link:
http://www.hhof.com/htmlNewsPromo/promoNHLFanDays.shtml

Anyways, I just found it an interesting tidbit....that is all.

Edit: Just looked at it closer. They don't have Iginla for Calgary and he was gone at trade deadline, too. Weird - did they not actually ask someone who it should be for the CBJ? No respect...
It should have been Prospal.... RJ blew it last season dreaming of the many ways he was going to spend all the money he was given before earning it...

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07-08-2013, 10:15 PM
  #443
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It should have been Prospal.... RJ blew it last season dreaming of the many ways he was going to spend all the money he was given before earning it...
Agreed, but with his longer tenure with the CBJ, I could see why.

Anyways, it doesn't really matter, but it just seems odd.

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07-09-2013, 12:24 PM
  #444
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Glad to see the spike in season ticket sales. Would like to see that number above 11,000 at some point so that most nights at Nationwide are full or close to it.

http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/...of+Columbus%29

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07-10-2013, 03:01 PM
  #445
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Rob Mixer ‏@RobMixer 14 s
#CBJ have announced the 2013 preseason schedule. Includes a split-squad game on Sept. 17 w/MIN & BUF, 2 gms vs. each of PIT, CAR, BUF.

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07-10-2013, 07:51 PM
  #446
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Rob Mixer ‏@RobMixer 14 s
#CBJ have announced the 2013 preseason schedule. Includes a split-squad game on Sept. 17 w/MIN & BUF, 2 gms vs. each of PIT, CAR, BUF.
Dislike the split squad games because I can't watch both at the same time.

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07-12-2013, 02:55 PM
  #447
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For anyone interested, former CBJ goalie Dan LaCosta has signed to play with the Cardiff Devils this next season in the UK Elite League. Fans seem excited to have signed someone with NHL experience while he completes his MBA in Cardiff.

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07-12-2013, 02:59 PM
  #448
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For anyone interested, former CBJ goalie Dan LaCosta has signed to play with the Cardiff Devils this next season in the UK Elite League. Fans seem excited to have signed someone with NHL experience while he completes his MBA in Cardiff.
I remember watching him play outstanding in two gaems vs San Jose when Mase was down with mono. I also remember the Leneveu kid that we traded for to have the LaLa boys in Syracuse. Fun times

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07-12-2013, 03:24 PM
  #449
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That was Kevin Lalande, David Leneveu was the next season I think

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07-12-2013, 03:51 PM
  #450
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That was Kevin Lalande, David Leneveu was the next season I think
Fail by me.

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