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2013 NHL Draft Talk Part V: Flyers own the 11th overall pick

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Old
06-24-2013, 05:24 PM
  #826
DrinkFightFlyers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
In fairness to ISS and CSB, they also use a lot of video with regards to scouting. A lot of times, they have a scout already located in a place like Kazakhstan or Uzbekistan or some remote town on the outskirts of Helsinki and a lot of time, the scout there has access to video and the video is then forwarded to the rest of the scouts to view. So, if someone from THW has access to the video that CSB or ISS use, then yes, it's very possible that someone has watched just as much video as someone from CSB or ISS.
Obviously it is possible that someone has access to this video and has taken the time to go over it, but I think that it is unlikely, or at least not a given to the point where someone who writes for a hockey blog should be on the same page as a professional. It's also possible that I have access to these videos, but if I posted on here about my top 90, it wouldn't be anywhere near the same level as ISS or CSS. I'm pretty surprised at the response I am getting from my post. People kill Eklund and others for making up rumors and no one believes a word the guy says, yet I say I am skeptical about a post from THW and people are defending them? At least we know Eklund and a lot of the other rumor guys have actual NHL connections.

Hell I did a mock draft for a website when I was in college for a website and I got 26/30 correct (not necessarily the order, but the players themselves). You know what I did my mock based on? YouTube and the Hockey News' draft preview where it talks about the strengths and weaknesses and ranks the prospects. No way that mock draft was representative of my credibility in the field. It was randomization and my interpretation of the couple minutes of video and brief scouting reports of the players. This author I'm sure knows more than me and I'm sure put more time in to it because this may be his job (is THW a site that pays its contributors? the site I worked for didn't). But that does not make him on the same level as the scouting services or even other hockey bloggers, at least not at face value. If you are not skeptical of this guy, who would you be skeptical of?

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06-24-2013, 05:43 PM
  #827
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Any interest in taking a chance on Doherty/ Petriecki from San Jose for a late pick? Could be worth IMO

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Old
06-24-2013, 05:44 PM
  #828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Obviously it is possible that someone has access to this video and has taken the time to go over it, but I think that it is unlikely, or at least not a given to the point where someone who writes for a hockey blog should be on the same page as a professional. It's also possible that I have access to these videos, but if I posted on here about my top 90, it wouldn't be anywhere near the same level as ISS or CSS. I'm pretty surprised at the response I am getting from my post. People kill Eklund and others for making up rumors and no one believes a word the guy says, yet I say I am skeptical about a post from THW and people are defending them? At least we know Eklund and a lot of the other rumor guys have actual NHL connections.

Hell I did a mock draft for a website when I was in college for a website and I got 26/30 correct (not necessarily the order, but the players themselves). You know what I did my mock based on? YouTube and the Hockey News' draft preview where it talks about the strengths and weaknesses and ranks the prospects. No way that mock draft was representative of my credibility in the field. It was randomization and my interpretation of the couple minutes of video and brief scouting reports of the players. This author I'm sure knows more than me and I'm sure put more time in to it because this may be his job (is THW a site that pays its contributors? the site I worked for didn't). But that does not make him on the same level as the scouting services or even other hockey bloggers, at least not at face value. If you are not skeptical of this guy, who would you be skeptical of?

Oh, I hope you take no offense to what I wrote at all. I'm just pointing out that in the day and age of Internet access and being able to watch all kinds of video, scouting has really taken a different approach from in the past. With that being said, there will always be a certain criteria that most will follow when scouting a player. That's universal. The key is, if you get your hands on that criteria (and that's where a THW or Hockeyprospect.com is such a good resource - they've got that information) you can then begin to see how they come to their conclusions.

Ultimately, the greatest resource in scouting isn't the NHL's Central Scouting Bureau - it's ISS as CSB often referes to ISS for player evaluation and criteria. I do think if you look at Hockeyprospect.com and THW and compare their list with ISS, it's not far off at all. They're pretty close to one another. In terms of skepticism, I think it's writers who write for teams and the NHL who I kind of view skeptically because they're going to write fluff pieces on players and they won't really give a unbiased view, especially if they get their information from someone with the organization.

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06-24-2013, 05:46 PM
  #829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I think the reason for the skepticism is for the reasons you just said. These guys don't have the resources that real scouts and beat writers have. I'm not trying to harsh on these guys or anything because like I said, I read THW and I wrote for a site similar to THW in college. The author may well be very well versed in hockey, but I am skeptical of his knowledge of a lot of these players. The guy probably knows more than me, I don't doubt that, but compared to others out there, I would question his credibility. I am not saying he is "wrong" or should not have posted this, I am just saying that I am not reading these rankings the same way I would read the ISS rankings. Always good to have another perspective on it, but this doesn't exactly hold a lot of weight.

Again, I am not trying to like hurt anyone's feelings or anything, but you are telling me that a guy writing a blog about hockey for THW ranking a guy like #74 Anton Slepyshev from the KHL has seen enough of him to actually make this a credible ranking? At least if it is someone like MacKenzie or someone from ISS or CSS or what have you, they have actually seen these guys play. Maybe the author of this post has seen these guys, but I am skeptical of that, I don't think it is unreasonable to be skeptical of that. These rankings should in no way be on the same level as other rankings.

you do realize guys like mackenzie get there info from scouts... mackenzie has seen some of the TOP guys but he's not out scouting ivan drodeztky in uzbekinstin russia.... most of these sites just gather up scouting reports and videos from around the internet and take educated guesses at what these players could translate into based on size/speed/age/IQ... after watching 22 years of hockey i can judge a player pretty well based on a few small videos around the net and watching a game or two... a good hockey player isn't hard to pick out and most NHL draft boards may be similar but they're all different.... ranking these guys is different for every scout

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06-24-2013, 05:56 PM
  #830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by potsiev2 View Post
you do realize guys like mackenzie get there info from scouts... mackenzie has seen some of the TOP guys but he's not out scouting ivan drodeztky in uzbekinstin russia.... most of these sites just gather up scouting reports and videos from around the internet and take educated guesses at what these players could translate into based on size/speed/age/IQ... after watching 22 years of hockey i can judge a player pretty well based on a few small videos around the net and watching a game or two... a good hockey player isn't hard to pick out and most NHL draft boards may be similar but they're all different.... ranking these guys is different for every scout
Yes, which is why he is reliable at least at face value. You don't need to really worry about whether or not he knows who Billy Smith playing at West Regional High School in Bumbledick, Iowa when he ranks him at number 87. But when you have a guy on a hockey blog website, where it is speculative about where he is getting his info from, I am not going to include his rankings in the same category as Button, MacKenzie, ISS, etc. He very well may have the same access as these guys. He may know more than them even. But I don't know who this guy is or what his reputation is, and he isn't writing for a major outlet, so I'm not sure why you wouldn't be skeptical of his rankings.

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06-24-2013, 06:50 PM
  #831
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Old
06-24-2013, 06:57 PM
  #832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyerFire View Post
Any interest in taking a chance on Doherty/ Petriecki from San Jose for a late pick? Could be worth IMO
I like Sena Acolatse personally.

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06-24-2013, 07:01 PM
  #833
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Shinkaruk could be a possible Danny Briere replacement. Wouldn't mind taking him at 11.

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06-24-2013, 07:07 PM
  #834
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I think Shinkaruk is going to be a phenom.

I have him as the 4th best forward in this draft. I have no problem if we choose him at 11.

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Old
06-24-2013, 07:23 PM
  #835
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Shinkaruk is a forward that I would not be sad to take either. From the articles I read about him, it seems like some try reallyyyy hard to find something wrong with him and reason why he fell. Reason why if we can grab another top 20 pick, take Shinkaruk at 11 and maybe a guy like Morrissey or Pulock at the other pick. Not only are you restocking the defense but also adding a forward to it also. Wouldnt be bad to the forward as well.

Can't go with a guy who plays at 100% every single game and while doing that scores goals and sets people up.

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Old
06-24-2013, 08:03 PM
  #836
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Late draft pick, I want Silas Makokis.

he has ties to the Flyers....

https://twitter.com/SMakokis/status/...618432/photo/1

He is a HIGH motor guy who likes to succeed. Learns quickly and is VERY coachable, very athletic, great body control, strong and quick.


Last edited by dingbathero: 06-24-2013 at 08:08 PM.
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06-24-2013, 10:09 PM
  #837
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Patrick Roy said as of today the Av's would select Nathan MacKinnon with the 1st pick. He said they have MacKinnon, Drouin, & Barkov as their top 3.

He could be telling the truth or this could be posturing to get Florida to pony up for MacKinnon or any of the other 2-4 picks for that matter.


Last edited by LegionOfDoom91: 06-24-2013 at 10:29 PM.
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06-24-2013, 10:09 PM
  #838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
Anthony San Filippo's mock has them taking Morin. He says they really like Zadorov, but he has him gone at 10.
I watched some of the Youtube videos of Morin's fights, the kid is a 17 year old beast and looks sound defensively. If homer could ever find a way to get an extra 1st round pick we sure could get a couple of future stars. (or at least good players)

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06-25-2013, 12:46 AM
  #839
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Finally the season is over, now on to the draft. I'm excited to see who we pick.

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06-25-2013, 01:26 AM
  #840
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Finally the season is over, now on to the draft. I'm excited to see who we pick.

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06-25-2013, 01:40 AM
  #841
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Originally Posted by stuccoman View Post
I watched some of the Youtube videos of Morin's fights, the kid is a 17 year old beast and looks sound defensively. If homer could ever find a way to get an extra 1st round pick we sure could get a couple of future stars. (or at least good players)
well except for this...

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06-25-2013, 02:26 AM
  #842
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Originally Posted by stuccoman View Post
I watched some of the Youtube videos of Morin's fights, the kid is a 17 year old beast and looks sound defensively. If homer could ever find a way to get an extra 1st round pick we sure could get a couple of future stars. (or at least good players)
If we pick Morin at 11, we should just burn it all down.

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06-25-2013, 08:54 AM
  #843
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I really hope that Colorado does take MacKinnon and then the Panthers take Jones. And then one of the forwards like Lindholm, Monahan, Shinkaruk, or Nichushkin fall to 11. Maybe the Panthers would want to trade back up to 11 and we could possibly trade for Kulikov. So 11 + for Kulikov. Then our defense would be

Timonen-Schenn
Streit-Coburn
Kulikov-Grossmann
Gus

or we could then trade coburn for forward help

Timonen-Schenn
Streit-Kulikov
Gus-Grossmann

either way if we had Kulikov and Schenn for the top pairing after next season, the future of our defense wouldn't look that bad

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06-25-2013, 08:56 AM
  #844
JDinkalage Morgoone
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I'd be really interested in acquiring another first. I want Shinkarunk if he falls now. It'd be cool if somehow they could get 10 or 12 and take Shinkarunk/Zadorov or Ristolainen. Pipedreams, I know.

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Old
06-25-2013, 08:58 AM
  #845
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
I really hope that Colorado does take MacKinnon and then the Panthers take Jones. And then one of the forwards like Lindholm, Monahan, Shinkaruk, or Nichushkin fall to 11. Maybe the Panthers would want to trade back up to 11 and we could possibly trade for Kulikov. So 11 + for Kulikov. Then our defense would be

Timonen-Schenn
Streit-Coburn
Kulikov-Grossmann
Gus

or we could then trade coburn for forward help

Timonen-Schenn
Streit-Kulikov
Gus-Grossmann

either way if we had Kulikov and Schenn for the top pairing after next season, the future of our defense wouldn't look that bad
Is Kulikov actually rumored to be available? If so, I would be all over this.

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06-25-2013, 09:08 AM
  #846
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Is Kulikov actually rumored to be available? If so, I would be all over this.
I haven't seen anything. But I was thinking if they get jones they may be willing to move him or Gudrbanson to get a center to play with Huberdeau. Some on the Panthers board were happy with a Couturier/Kulikov even swap. But I was trying to find a way to get Kulikov and keep Couturier

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06-25-2013, 09:53 AM
  #847
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
I haven't seen anything. But I was thinking if they get jones they may be willing to move him or Gudrbanson to get a center to play with Huberdeau. Some on the Panthers board were happy with a Couturier/Kulikov even swap. But I was trying to find a way to get Kulikov and keep Couturier
I would do a Couturier for Gudbranson swap but not Kulikov.

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06-25-2013, 09:56 AM
  #848
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilaFlyers View Post
Shinkaruk could be a possible Danny Briere replacement. Wouldn't mind taking him at 11.
Even his goal celebration is like Danny's

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Old
06-25-2013, 10:37 AM
  #849
dingbathero
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[/INDENT]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I would do a Couturier for Gudbranson swap but not Kulikov.
I don't think I would. As we would need to bring in a PMD to take over for Kimmo/Striet eventually.

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06-25-2013, 10:37 AM
  #850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I would do a Couturier for Gudbranson swap but not Kulikov.
Really? I thought Kulikov has been pretty damned good in Florida. Gudbranson hasn't impressed me too much, though I admittedly haven't seen much of him.

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