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06-25-2013, 12:32 AM
  #951
Herby
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Everyone agrees the Kings bottom six is pretty bad, especially when it comes to contributing offense. Some people like myself want to move Richards down there to spread out the scoring and make the Kings tougher to play against. Some people are very much against that, the problem is, no one who is against having the three centers on different lines can come up with a lineup that gives the Kings a capable third line.

Sorry to say, because he had a good year all around, but any line that Jarret Stoll is centering is not going to be offensively productive. And if the Kings go with the status quo of King-Stoll-Lewis and Clifford-Fraser-Nolan they will be shaking hands and wishing Chicago good luck in the finals.

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06-25-2013, 12:32 AM
  #952
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Originally Posted by MN14 View Post
So show me the replacement lineup that's better? Talk about no substance to back it up. It's easy to pretend you're the GM when you just drive by with 'move Stoll' and nothing else.
You'd have to read the posts in order to see what the lineups could be but hey, let's keep posting no substance stuff its fun.

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06-25-2013, 12:35 AM
  #953
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Everyone agrees the Kings bottom six is pretty bad, especially when it comes to contributing offense. Some people like myself want to move Richards down there to spread out the scoring and make the Kings tougher to play against. Some people are very much against that, the problem is, no one who is against having the three centers on different lines can come up with a lineup that gives the Kings a capable third line.

Sorry to say, because he had a good year all around, but any line that Jarret Stoll is centering is not going to be offensively productive. And if the Kings go with the status quo of King-Stoll-Lewis and Clifford-Fraser-Nolan they will be shaking hands and wishing Chicago good luck in the finals.
How would you do the lineup then ? With the Current players the Kings are going to keep.

Dave Bolland and Stoll score at the same pace(career wise)......Keep that in mind.

It's Chicago's bottom Wingers that are a bit more productive.

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06-25-2013, 12:38 AM
  #954
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
You put one out there ?

Where ?

The second one was what I would like to see(if you move Stoll out).

The first one is what the Kings have.

Also the first lineup is basically what the Kings had to make it to the WCF...

So is that terrible ?

Unless people are suggesting Frattin is worse than Penner or King ?
No the entire point of my posts was to trade stoll in order to get holloway in and retain scuds And open a spot on RW for toffoli. Instead I got blasted for it being fantasy. Your lineup is pretty much what I had in mind.

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06-25-2013, 12:38 AM
  #955
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I stopped reading after the bolded. I guess by your definition of a good center, Stamkos isn't a good center either, since he's more of a goal scorer than he is a passer.

It really doesn't matter who scores, as long as we can score more than 2 goals per game. Having Richards as our 3C gives us that opportunity. And Stoll is too expensive to be our 4C for those thinking it.
No it doesn't. Putting a clever playmaking center on a 3rd line with bottom 6 players does not do that, nor does putting two shooters on the same line without a playmaker.

It still doesn't create balanced lines. balanced lines are more successful long term and it your '2 goals a game' comment is referring to the playoffs, that's because two thirds of the first line was on a milk carton for the entire playoffs and the 3rd and 4th lines , who contributed a fair amount of goals in the 2012 playoffs, went cold. Richards and Carter? They were most of the offense, playing together thru all 3 series.
If the first line and third line had contributed 1 to 2 goals a game, that lack of offense wouldn't' have been a problem.

And to bolster your point above, Richards is too expensive to be a 3rd line center.
And that's not why DL brought him here...and it's a waste of his time and talent.

Was Jeff Carter during the regular season, where he played great at RW potting goals and winning games, such a complete disappointment to you?

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06-25-2013, 12:41 AM
  #956
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Originally Posted by deeshamrock View Post
No it doesn't. Putting a clever playmaking center on a 3rd line with bottom 6 players does not do that, nor does putting two shooters on the same line without a playmaker.

It still doesn't create balanced lines. balanced lines are more successful long term and it your '2 goals a game' comment is referring to the playoffs, that's because two thirds of the first line was on a milk carton for the entire playoffs and the 3rd and 4th lines , who contributed a fair amount of goals in the 2012 playoffs, went cold. Richards and Carter? They were most of the offense, playing together thru all 3 series.
If the first line and third line had contributed 1 to 2 goals a game, that lack of offense wouldn't' have been a problem.

And to bolster your point above, Richards is too expensive to be a 3rd line center.
And that's not why DL brought him here...and it's a waste of his time and talent.

Was Jeff Carter during the regular season, where he played great at RW potting goals and winning games, such a complete disappointment to you?
He shouldn't be moved, no matter how good he looked for a period of games...


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06-25-2013, 12:43 AM
  #957
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Originally Posted by Winger23 View Post
No the entire point of my posts was to trade stoll in order to get holloway in and retain scuds And open a spot on RW for toffoli. Instead I got blasted for it being fantasy. Your lineup is pretty much what I had in mind.
If you have to move Stoll, then Yes it's an absolute must to get Holloway.

Cause then Richards has to be that Third line Center to replace Stoll.

I wish the Kings had a little more caps space.

Cause Holloway/Stoll/Lewis or Williams.....

That is a very good looking Third line.

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06-25-2013, 12:44 AM
  #958
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What you heard I got laid off too?


But in all seriousness, too ambiguous!
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Quit teasing! SPILL THE BEANS!
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Hawks won the cup?
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Kings will make announcement regarding Holloway and Scuderi signing?
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I'm so excited!
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Not cool man! Spill!
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Wait, wait, wait, you can't do that to us
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awww not cool man.....
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Talk about an ass**** without a reacharound...
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"The next couple days" better mean on my phone when I wake up tomorrow
My apologies all the way around. What a bull oney thing to do. This is a big week for announcements was all that I meant. So sorry about that. Entirely my bad.

That said I feel obligated to rumor monger a little bit out of guilt so take it for what its worth which isn't much.

There are a bunch of things but the most important is that Scuderi's agent has said that Rob is leaning towards waiting to test free agency. This was as of Saturday so things can change now that the JB deal is done but I think that Rob will wait and see his offers.

I know that the Pens and Isles are both very interested in talking to Scuds once they are allowed to do so. Shero said "it would be great to have Rob back here where he belongs" at the GM meetings, allegedly. Snow has made similar noises. Nobody is talking to anyone until after 7/5 but it is starting to look like Rob will get a good solid contract that can take him closer to home and pay him more then we will be able to for longer.

Never say never to DL but that is what it is looking like.

Que the "SCUDERI SINGS WITH KINGS" presser in 3.2.1.......

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06-25-2013, 12:45 AM
  #959
The Black1963
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Originally Posted by deeshamrock View Post
No it doesn't. Putting a clever playmaking center on a 3rd line with bottom 6 players does not do that, nor does putting two shooters on the same line without a playmaker.

It still doesn't create balanced lines. balanced lines are more successful long term and it your '2 goals a game' comment is referring to the playoffs, that's because two thirds of the first line was on a milk carton for the entire playoffs and the 3rd and 4th lines , who contributed a fair amount of goals in the 2012 playoffs, went cold. Richards and Carter? They were most of the offense, playing together thru all 3 series.
If the first line and third line had contributed 1 to 2 goals a game, that lack of offense wouldn't' have been a problem.

And to bolster your point above, Richards is too expensive to be a 3rd line center.
And that's not why DL brought him here...and it's a waste of his time and talent.

Was Jeff Carter during the regular season, where he played great at RW potting goals and winning games, such a complete disappointment to you?
There are a lot of things you said that I don't agree with, but, let me just tackle one, just to prove a point. You say that Richards is too expensive to be a 3C. But bottom line is we'll be lowering our salary cap by moving Richards to replace Stoll. And isn't that what is important? Creating more cap space in hopes of acquiring a better 2LW?

I think the main difference between our perspective is that you're more concerned with individual players, whereas concerned about the team as a whole.

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06-25-2013, 12:46 AM
  #960
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
My apologies all the way around. What a bull oney thing to do. This is a big week for announcements was all that I meant. So sorry about that. Entirely my bad.

That said I feel obligated to rumor monger a little bit out of guilt so take it for what its worth which isn't much.

There are a bunch of things but the most important is that Scuderi's agent has said that Rob is leaning towards waiting to test free agency. This was as of Saturday so things can change now that the JB deal is done but I think that Rob will wait and see his offers.

I know that the Pens and Isles are both very interested in talking to Scuds once they are allowed to do so. Shero said "it would be great to have Rob back here where he belongs" at the GM meetings, allegedly. Snow has made similar noises. Nobody is talking to anyone until after 7/5 but it is starting to look like Rob will get a good solid contract that can take him closer to home and pay him more then we will be able to for longer.

Never say never to DL but that is what it is looking like.

Que the "SCUDERI SINGS WITH KINGS" presser in 3.2.1.......
That would suck.

But I can't fault Scuds for wanting to go home. That would leave money for Holloway though .

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06-25-2013, 12:46 AM
  #961
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
If you have to move Stoll, then Yes it's an absolute must to get Holloway.

Cause then Richards has to be that Third line Center to replace Stoll.
Correct. It would be only if the kings were able to sign him. And it would give the kings the chance at keeping scuds even more.

Edit. Damn thanks TG depressing news. Kings are screwed if Mitchell isn't healthy.

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06-25-2013, 12:47 AM
  #962
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How would you do the lineup then ?
First off, I would not have re-signed Regehr. But that is over with.

I would trade Stoll for a draft pick, not that he was bad this year, but he doesn't do enough offensively or defensively to center a 3rd line, if he made $1.5 mill that would be fine, but no way is Stoll a 3+ mill a year player for a team against the cap, not even close.

Knowing that you need three scoring lines to compete and win a championship. I would go forward with the three centers signed long term and build the forward lines around them.

Right now we are looking at...

Brown - Kopitar - Toffoli
HOLE - Carter - Williams
HOLE - Richards - Frattin
Clifford - Vey - Lewis
Fraser/Nolan

I think from there you sign one UFA with the money saved on Stoll and then hope that one of the younger players like Pearson can step in and assume another spot. Either way, this gives the Kings a ton more cap and lineup flexibility than having Jarret Stoll pretending to be a 3C and Jeff Carter filling a RW spot on an already loaded right side.

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06-25-2013, 12:47 AM
  #963
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
If you have to move Stoll, then Yes it's an absolute must to get Holloway.

Cause then Richards has to be that Third line Center to replace Stoll.

I wish the Kings had a little more caps space.

Cause Holloway/Stoll/Lewis or Williams.....

That is a very good looking Third line.
Since when has acquiring Holloway, who has yet to play a single NHL minute an ABSOLUTE???

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06-25-2013, 12:48 AM
  #964
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This is something I mention in the Holloway thread. But, the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of giving Pearson a shot.

In my opinion, we really need to additional LW who can score. We need to have more offensive production on our 3rd line. Right now it looks like it's one of Holloway, Pearson, or Penner.

Penner is long a shot and if we CAN sign him.... The question is SHOULD we sign him?

Holloway is high risk, high reward type. Lots of potential with him! But, he hasn't play a single NHL game. He'll cost us at least 1m in cap space. So, if he's a dud, it's a major blow in this season with the cap coming down. We can't be using 1m in cap space on healthy scratches. The final issue with Holloway is he's a right handed shot. Which means our top 3 LW's are gonna be right handed shots. Not a huge problem. But, it does hindered the idea of Carter playing center. Since there would be no left handed shot on his line. Unless you go with King or Clifford. Who have been unsuccessful in the past when put in the top 6.

Pearson on the other hand has a lot high reward and very low risk. When looking at numbers. You'll see that Pearson had identical numbers in his first professional season to what Holloway had in his 2nd pro season. (19G-28A-47P). However, Pearson did it in 11 less games and 2 years younger. Then again Holloway wasn't playing with Vey and Toffoli. Which is something to consider.

Pearson is a left handed shot. So, that gives us more diversity in our line-up. And it makes it easier to put Carter at center if we wished.

Maybe the best thing going for Pearson is that he's on a 2-way contract and is wavier exempt. So, if things don't work for him. We can just send him back to Manchester to work on his game. Which aside from subbing Frattin for Penner, leaves us with essential the same line up that got us to the WCF this season. Not an ideal situation... But, not horrible one consider the limitations we have this season with the lowered cap.


With Pearson in the line-up I can see our lines looking like this:


Brown-Kopitar-Williams
Pearson-Richards-Carter
Frattin-Stoll-Toffoli
Clifford/King-Lewis/Fraser-Lewis/Nolan

I could also see Williams and Toffoli flipping spots later in the season as well. That's a top 9 with some serious offensive potential. And it doesn't require us to make another move or add another contract.


Last edited by CTKingsFan: 06-25-2013 at 12:53 AM.
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06-25-2013, 12:49 AM
  #965
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Since when has acquiring Holloway, who has yet to play a single NHL minute an ABSOLUTE???
Cheaper.

You are not going to find a 2nd LW for 3million.

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06-25-2013, 12:49 AM
  #966
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If Scuderi hits the open market he's gone. Simple as that. We can't outbid those two.

The entire plan depends on the status of WM and I'll never underestimate the heart of a champion.

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06-25-2013, 12:50 AM
  #967
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Scuderi might test free agency?? SINCE WHEN? I am just shocked!

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06-25-2013, 12:50 AM
  #968
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First off, I would not have re-signed Regehr. But that is over with.

I would trade Stoll for a draft pick, not that he was bad this year, but he doesn't do enough offensively or defensively to center a 3rd line, if he made $1.5 mill that would be fine, but no way is Stoll a 3+ mill a year player for a team against the cap, not even close.

Knowing that you need three scoring lines to compete and win a championship. I would go forward with the three centers signed long term and build the forward lines around them.

Right now we are looking at...

Brown - Kopitar - Toffoli
HOLE - Carter - Williams
HOLE - Richards - Frattin
Clifford - Vey - Lewis
Fraser/Nolan

I think from there you sign one UFA with the money saved on Stoll and then hope that one of the younger players like Pearson can step in and assume another spot. Either way, this gives the Kings a ton more cap and lineup flexibility than having Jarret Stoll pretending to be a 3C and Jeff Carter filling a RW spot on an already loaded right side.
Two holes one in the top six with only about 3 to 4 mill ?

You would be the first person bashing Richards when his offense dries up cause two rookies are on his wing.....

Stoll is not making 5 million, he really only free's up space to get another Depth type player.

Not a legit Top Six player.

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06-25-2013, 12:51 AM
  #969
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Deesham,

Paying Mike Richards $5.7 to center a line that will be expected to score while freeing up cap space in other places is better off than paying Stoll 3+ to contribute energy and faceoffs with no scoring or defensive responsibility.

The Kings need to get a better, more talented and more balanced lineup, and that is going to be hard to do when you are paying 3+ mill a year to a guy who went the final 28 games of last season without scoring a goal.

The Kings are really up against the cap, they just can't pay Stoll 3+ for what he contributes, he is essentially a specialist who provides energy.

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06-25-2013, 12:54 AM
  #970
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Cheaper.

You are not going to find a 2nd LW for 3million.
Yeah, he's cheaper, but we're talking about winning the cup, not just competing.

We could get Morrow for less than 3M.

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06-25-2013, 12:54 AM
  #971
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Correct. It would be only if the kings were able to sign him. And it would give the kings the chance at keeping scuds even more.
The thing is, Lombardi loves Stoll and I don't see him moving him, esp since whether or not Holloway decides if playing for the Kings or playing for $ is more important to him. From the cryptic clues DL has given , it might be that they haven't been able to agree on a number they both feel is fair. And I don't think DL will overpay for a player who has yet to play 1 game in the NHL, nor should he.

And I love Scuds, and hope that something can be done, but you can't blame him if the Islanders offer him Streit's money (4.75 per year) Scuds is younger and would fill that need for them. I don't think Lombardi can offer him anything close to that.

And if he doesn't think they can get him signed by Sunday, then he might be traded rather than lose him to FA.

And there's also Mitchell's money. He's rehabbing hard to return. That means he gets full salary.

A lot for DL to consider...and RR 's contract was the writing on the wall...I think he knew then that most likely, that signing Scuds might be a problem.

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06-25-2013, 12:55 AM
  #972
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Yeah, he's cheaper, but we're talking about winning the cup, not just competing.

We could get Morrow for less than 3M.
I don't think Morrow has ever made less than 4 million in his career.

He is not going to take a pay cut(nor should he).

Makes 4.1 mill now.

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06-25-2013, 12:56 AM
  #973
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I don't think Morrow has ever made less than 3million in his career.

He is not going to take a pay cut(nor should he).

Makes 4.1 mill now.
Dude, he's 34 yr old I believe, he'll take a pay cut for the chance at the ring. He IS a character type of guy after all.

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06-25-2013, 12:57 AM
  #974
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Where is Stoll going to be dealt? For what? The always popular draft picks? What team is going to give you simply a pick or two for a $3 million center who is apparently unproductive offensively? Seems the only team that would do something like is the Kings, since they got Regehr in a similar scenario.

Always easy to say trade X or Y player for picks. Easy to make a deal that only benefits the Kings. If Stoll is that ineffective, who's lining up to get him? Especially with the cap going down.

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06-25-2013, 12:57 AM
  #975
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Dude, he's 34 yr old I believe, he'll take a pay cut for the chance at the ring. He IS a character type of guy after all.
You know the guy personally ? His production warrants he not take a Pay cut.

Why would the Kings even want him ? The guy is old.

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