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Old
06-25-2013, 12:58 AM
  #976
Herby
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DMac,

Richards already contributed very little last season at even strength. 6 goals, and a team worst -8. He is a guy who does most of his damage on the PP, and that will not be taken away from him he will still be on the #1 PP unit with Kopitar and Carter.

It comes down to rolling three lines that are capable of scoring and present a matchup problem for other coaches, do you think that is possible with Stoll or Vey centering a third scoring line?

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06-25-2013, 01:00 AM
  #977
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DMac,

Richards already contributed very little last season at even strength. 6 goals, and a team worst -8. He is a guy who does most of his damage on the PP, and that will not be taken away from him he will still be on the #1 PP unit with Kopitar and Carter.

It comes down to rolling three lines that are capable of scoring and present a matchup problem for other coaches, do you think that is possible with Stoll or Vey centering a third scoring line?
So Richards who can't score 5 on 5(your words)makes that better ?

How are you creating three scoring lines when you just said Richards is not good 5 on 5 ?

Why wouldn't you just keep Stoll ?

Stoll's 3 million does not land a Top Six player.....

This is going to blow your mind....

Most of Stoll's scoring this year was 5 on 5. Also it was compatible to Dave Bolland.

Dave Bolland has a better choice of Wingers.


Last edited by damacles1156: 06-25-2013 at 01:07 AM.
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06-25-2013, 01:00 AM
  #978
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
You know the guy personally ? His production warrants he not take a Pay cut.

Why would the Kings even want him ? The guy is old.
He played well for the pens and still has something left in the tank. I think he could be a good signing for less than 3M.

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06-25-2013, 01:02 AM
  #979
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Originally Posted by deeshamrock View Post
The thing is, Lombardi loves Stoll and I don't see him moving him, esp since whether or not Holloway decides if playing for the Kings or playing for $ is more important to him. From the cryptic clues DL has given , it might be that they haven't been able to agree on a number they both feel is fair. And I don't think DL will overpay for a player who has yet to play 1 game in the NHL, nor should he.

And I love Scuds, and hope that something can be done, but you can't blame him if the Islanders offer him Streit's money (4.75 per year) Scuds is younger and would fill that need for them. I don't think Lombardi can offer him anything close to that.

And if he doesn't think they can get him signed by Sunday, then he might be traded rather than lose him to FA.

And there's also Mitchell's money. He's rehabbing hard to return. That means he gets full salary.

A lot for DL to consider...and RR 's contract was the writing on the wall...I think he knew then that most likely, that signing Scuds might be a problem.
Exactly, it was preemptive damage control. I still like the signing.

It seems like most of these posts forget we were in the Western Conference Finals with a team that was essentially running on empty. No need to gut the team.

Try to re-sign Scuderi, get Holloway on board, and prepare for the draft.

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06-25-2013, 01:04 AM
  #980
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If Scuderi wants to test free agency, he is GONE

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06-25-2013, 01:09 AM
  #981
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
So Richards who can't score 5 on 5 makes that better ?

How are you creating three scoring lines when you just said Richards is not good 5 on 5 ?

Why wouldn't you just keep Stoll ?

Stoll's 3 million does not land a Top Six player.....

This is going to blow your mind....

Most of Stoll's scoring this year was 5 on 5.
Richards had a poor year 5 on 5, but he is still a much more skilled player than Stoll. Having Richards playing behind Kopitar and Carter would also free him to to face bottom pair defenders, Stoll may not have taken advantage of that, but I think Richards certainly would have.

And yes, the Kings could get a capable 2nd line player with some of the freed up money from Penner, Richardson and Stoll being off the books, and the Leafs retaining 500k of cap space.

It's poor asset management for a team up against the cap to be paying 3+ to a faceoff specialist/energy player who provides zero offense and isn't expected to do any heavy defensive lifting.

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06-25-2013, 01:13 AM
  #982
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Deesham,

Paying Mike Richards $5.7 to center a line that will be expected to score while freeing up cap space in other places is better off than paying Stoll 3+ to contribute energy and faceoffs with no scoring or defensive responsibility.

The Kings need to get a better, more talented and more balanced lineup, and that is going to be hard to do when you are paying 3+ mill a year to a guy who went the final 28 games of last season without scoring a goal.

The Kings are really up against the cap, they just can't pay Stoll 3+ for what he contributes, he is essentially a specialist who provides energy.
I understand what you're saying, and love the idea of 3 balanced lines that could contribute. But the fact is, the Kings, like a lot of teams, are up against the CAP. The Bruins and Hawks will both have to dump players. At least the Kings core (save Brown and that will be taken care of) is signed long term and I don't think there's another team in the league that have that luxury for the next several years.

But DL has a lot of decisions to make and it won't be easy. I'd like to think that with better wingers, Stoll's line might have been better. Maybe not. The thing is, DL likes him and it's his team. So all the speculating here doesn't really change anything. I just don't see DL getting rid of him.

For Mike Richards to be on a line the produces goals on a regular basis , he would require skilled wingers. And without knowing who will be bought out later this week, maybe that's possible. Maybe someone gets bought out and will sign cheap because the Kings are a contender.
For me, I would rather see Richards center that 2nd line w /Carter at wing because they have had success and produced. If Frattin gives them the power forward and strength to balance out what has been missing onthat line, then maybe the top 2 lines become 2 dominant lines. And Sutter said he intends to have those young players compete at camp, so maybe one of them wins a job.

It's a tricky balancing act. And esp since DL's first priority, from what he's been saying all week, is to try to sign Scuds. And then there's Mitchell's money, he's rehabbing hard and what if he's on the team in Sept? That's full salary.


Quote:
Richards already contributed very little last season at even strength. 6 goals,
Goals are just 1 part of that contribution, he also set up Carter 14 times and several other chances that Carter didn't capitalize on. Not having a LW didn't help and losing 3 weeks or more from march 10 (blindside hit from Calgary and shoulder) hindered him.
And it goes back to the fact this is Sutter's team and he likes MR and JC together.


Anyway, it's 215 am on a humid night in Philly an I'm the crazy hockey fan that is losing sleep here. 6 am rolls around early

night all...


Last edited by deeshamrock: 06-25-2013 at 01:24 AM.
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Old
06-25-2013, 01:16 AM
  #983
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Originally Posted by ScoreZeGoals View Post
If Scuderi wants to test free agency, he is GONE
Sorry to break the news to you, but he was gone once we signed RR.

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06-25-2013, 01:16 AM
  #984
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Jarret Stoll was on pace for about 35 to 40 points this year.

Six Goals at even strength.....That matched Richards.

Bolland has scored over 40 points once in his entire career.

Bolland has access to much better wingers.

Makes about the same as Stoll.

Stoll has done it Four times, might have done it this year with 82 games.

What exactly are people looking for ?

50 points out of Stoll on the third line ? He would be the Best third line Center in the entire league.

The Hawks have no problem paying Bolland 3.3 million(Third line Center).


Last edited by damacles1156: 06-25-2013 at 01:22 AM.
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06-25-2013, 01:17 AM
  #985
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Sutter gets his old Captain and gets Iginla meaning we have to trade Stoll for money sakes

Kopitar - Brown - Toffoli
Carter - Frattin - Iginla
Richards - Holloway/King - Williams
Fraser - Clifford - Lewis
Vey - Pearson - Nolan

Or mix and match.

Lots of depth and a package of Stoll/ Martinez and pick may pick up an upgrade at one of the wings. Personally I see Iggy as past his prime but may gamble on a cheap 1 or 2 year deal 3 mil a year range

I guess I should point out I think Stoll is going nowhere but I wonder if we will sniff around Iggy.

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06-25-2013, 01:17 AM
  #986
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It's poor asset management for a team up against the cap to be paying 3+ to a faceoff specialist/energy player who provides zero offense and isn't expected to do any heavy defensive lifting.
We know why the Kings are up against the cap. It's not of their own doing.

How are the Kings supposed to get rid of Stoll when he's this unproductive and overpaid?

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Old
06-25-2013, 01:19 AM
  #987
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Sorry to break the news to you, but he was gone once we signed RR.
Or they signed RR because he was gone.

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Old
06-25-2013, 01:22 AM
  #988
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Sutter gets his old Captain and gets Iginla meaning we have to trade Stoll for money sakes

Kopitar - Brown - Toffoli
Carter - Frattin - Iginla
Richards - Holloway/King - Williams
Fraser - Clifford - Lewis
Vey - Pearson - Nolan

Or mix and match.

Lots of depth and a package of Stoll/ Martinez and pick may pick up an upgrade at one of the wings. Personally I see Iggy as past his prime but may gamble on a cheap 1 or 2 year deal 3 mil a year range

I guess I should point out I think Stoll is going nowhere but I wonder if we will sniff around Iggy.
Well, sniffing is free, so yeah, I'm sure we'll get in a sniff or two. But unfortunately, Iggy being a RW, hinders the thought of acquisition. If he were a LW, I'm sure Lombardi would have been all over him.

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06-25-2013, 01:23 AM
  #989
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Stoll 56% at the Dot this year, Bolland was around 46%......

Bolland did come up big though this last three games.

The Hawks are going to have holes just like every team.

Bickell is gone they will have a tough time replacing his post season magic(size/Grit/Speed).

They are also most likely not going to keep Stalberg. That's more speed coming out of the Hawks lineup.


Last edited by damacles1156: 06-25-2013 at 01:32 AM.
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06-25-2013, 01:27 AM
  #990
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
There are going to be a few big announcements over the next couple of days.

This **** just got real.
All just guessing... welcome to my crazy land trade....
the kings have a bunch of bottom 6 guys they can move and fill spots with guys from minors.... Nolan, Clifford, Fraser, 1 of their D is going to get traded (cap)... but none of these pieces bring back a top 6 guy.... also can't roll kopitar/carter/richards down the middle because the kings don't have the talent to put around them.... so

Edmonton: MacT took over... they have acquired tons of talent... now need to trade to get pieces..... what I'm guessing is D, 3rd line center, size/grit

Stoll ... (60% stop reading here) any large trade will almost have to involve Stoll for cap purposes....
Clifford
Nolan
AMart (added if needed)
Voynov I know right... just had an amazing off-season... no way him or Stoll gets traded

would that be enough to get Nails back? Pretty much Nails for Voynov +++... would then lead to something like

Brown/Kopitar/Williams
(DP/BH/UFA)/Carter/TT
Frattin/Richards/Nail
King/Lewis/Vey
Pearson/kozun

DD/WM
MG/RR
JM/RS
KE

Ok start mocking now....

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06-25-2013, 01:29 AM
  #991
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All just guessing... welcome to my crazy land trade....
the kings have a bunch of bottom 6 guys they can move and fill spots with guys from minors.... Nolan, Clifford, Fraser, 1 of their D is going to get traded (cap)... but none of these pieces bring back a top 6 guy.... also can't roll kopitar/carter/richards down the middle because the kings don't have the talent to put around them.... so

Edmonton: MacT took over... they have acquired tons of talent... now need to trade to get pieces..... what I'm guessing is D, 3rd line center, size/grit

Stoll ... (60% stop reading here) any large trade will almost have to involve Stoll for cap purposes....
Clifford
Nolan
AMart (added if needed)
Voynov I know right... just had an amazing off-season... no way him or Stoll gets traded

would that be enough to get Nails back? Pretty much Nails for Voynov +++... would then lead to something like

Brown/Kopitar/Williams
(DP/BH/UFA)/Carter/TT
Frattin/Richards/Nail
King/Lewis/Vey
Pearson/kozun

DD/WM
MG/RR
JM/RS
KE

Ok start mocking now....
Why would you trade all that to put Nail on the Third line ?

And have another RW ?

Stoll+ Slava would be 8 million Dollars a Team would taking on....

There is a Salary Cap folks.

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06-25-2013, 01:32 AM
  #992
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Dmac.

Stoll finished the year on a 28 game goalless drought, this is the third straight season he went through a drought like that. Are you really comfortable with him in a role where he is expected to score a few goals here and there?

Kings78,

That is why the Stoll extension last summer was incredibly short sighted and poor on DL's part. He should have gotten the same deal Penner got, you bring the Cup team back together, while giving both guys a chance to redeem themselves, and if they didn't the Kings wouldn't be between a rock and a hard place with the cap. And maybe your right, there might not be a market for Stoll. But what does that tell you about Stoll and what teams think about him and what hes making.

Rhino,

The Kings are not trading Voynov, and very unlikely EDM would want to take on Stoll's contract.

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06-25-2013, 01:35 AM
  #993
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Dmac.

Stoll finished the year on a 28 game goalless drought, this is the third straight season he went through a drought like that. Are you really comfortable with him in a role where he is expected to score a few goals here and there?

Kings78,

That is why the Stoll extension last summer was incredibly short sighted and poor on DL's part. He should have gotten the same deal Penner got, you bring the Cup team back together, while giving both guys a chance to redeem themselves, and if they didn't the Kings wouldn't be between a rock and a hard place with the cap. And maybe your right, there might not be a market for Stoll. But what does that tell you about Stoll and what teams think about him and what hes making.
Players go through scoring droughts Dave Bolland has had simmiliar ones.

Kopitar has too, Richards as well. Brown....What exactly do you want from Stoll ?

Kopitar went and ENTIRE YEAR without scoring a PP goal ? Kopitar has 19 to 25+ games EVERY YEAR without scoring a Goal.

How is it that we are holding Bottom Six players to such High standards ?

If Stoll scored every seven to Ten Games he would Be the Malkin of third line Centers...

Actually he wouldn't be a Third line Center he would be bumping Mike Richards out his spot.

You Guys have unrealistic expectations for Depth players.

Had Stoll kept his regualar season pace, he would have scored right about were Third line players score.....

30 to 40 points.

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06-25-2013, 01:37 AM
  #994
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Even if Stoll gets traded, who replaces him? Who on the bottom 6 will pick up his PK time? Can take big draws? Brings his tenacity and can score here and there? He's an important player, he's always in the top-6 among forwards in TOI on our team.

No one in our system fits that, we would have to bring someone else in. Any UFA who brings what Stoll does is going to cost you $3M anyways, that's just the going rate.

This is only an issue because the cap is down this year. Every team is dealing with it. I'm just glad the Kings are in a better position than most.

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06-25-2013, 01:38 AM
  #995
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DMac,

Three consecutive seasons Stoll went through one of those droughts, it's not a slump. He is just not an offensive player, his offensive game is totally gone. You can't count on him to contribute anything offensively.

I am confused, do you not agree the Kings need to have three lines capable of generating offense, or are you happy with a King-Lewis-Stoll 3rd line again next season?

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06-25-2013, 01:40 AM
  #996
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DMac,

Three consecutive seasons Stoll went through one of those droughts, it's not a slump. He is just not an offensive player, his offensive game is totally gone. You can't count on him to contribute anything offensively.

I am confused, do you not agree the Kings need to have three lines capable of generating offense, or are you happy with a King-Lewis-Stoll 3rd line again next season?
You are not understanding what I am saying.....

Third line players Score at that pace...LEAGUE WIDE....

They may be two teams Pitt/Boston.

That has third line players scoring at unusual rates.

Stoll scores at a third line player pace......

Bolland does as well.

What Third line player are you envisioning Herby ?

They typically don't score more than 35 points.....

You think Stoll can't score that ? He was on pace to beat that this year. With the Majority of his scoring coming 5 on 5.

That should be encouraging to anyone.

If you people think that Third line players Score 50 points a year......

That doesn't happen....


Last edited by damacles1156: 06-25-2013 at 01:45 AM.
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06-25-2013, 01:45 AM
  #997
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You are not understanding what I am saying.....

Third line players Score at that pace...LEAGUE WIDE....

They may be two teams Pitt/Boston.

That has third line players scoring at unusual rates.

Stoll scores at a third line player pace......

Bolland does as well.

What Third line player are you envisioning Herby ?
I'm envisioning getting even a goal or 2 from our bottom lines.

I see guys like Kruger, Bolland, Shaw, Paille and Kelly scoring big goals in this series. And I look at our bottom six, Stoll included, and I didn't see anything like that from our guys.

You are right, the Kings do need Brown and Kopitar to return, obviously. But even if they do return, no one is winning a championship with zero offense from the bottom six, and that is what LA has with Stoll, King, Lewis, Clifford, Fraser and Nolan.

Our bottom six is a glaring glaring weakness.

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06-25-2013, 01:49 AM
  #998
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I'm envisioning getting even a goal or 2 from our bottom lines.

I see guys like Kruger, Bolland, Shaw, Paille and Kelly scoring big goals in this series. And I look at our bottom six, Stoll included, and I didn't see anything like that from our guys.

You are right, the Kings do need Brown and Kopitar to return, obviously. But even if they do return, no one is winning a championship with zero offense from the bottom six, and that is what LA has with Stoll, King, Lewis, Clifford, Fraser and Nolan.

Our bottom six is a glaring glaring weakness.
And was a Strength during the Cup run...

You can't predict what happens year to year.

The trend for Stoll is on the up though, he scored the majority of his points 5 on 5, He was on pace to meet or exceed third line player scoring....

Would anyone predicted that Brown and Kopitar would be complete no shows ?

And that Drew Doughty would play the worse series of his post season career ?

With the Cap , you are going to have holes, the Kings holes are Wingers, and Depth in Bottom Six.

A rookie is not going to replace what Stoll brings PERIOD.

It's not going to happen folks. He takes two times the draws Carter/Richards takes.

There would be constant *****ing about how the Kings don't have the puck next season.

I would have loved Lombardi not paying Stoll 3+ million. But he did it.

Bolland makes 3.3mill

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06-25-2013, 01:50 AM
  #999
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I'm envisioning getting even a goal or 2 from our bottom lines.

I see guys like Kruger, Bolland, Shaw, Paille and Kelly scoring big goals in this series. And I look at our bottom six, Stoll included, and I didn't see anything like that from our guys.

You are right, the Kings do need Brown and Kopitar to return, obviously. But even if they do return, no one is winning a championship with zero offense from the bottom six, and that is what LA has with Stoll, King, Lewis, Clifford, Fraser and Nolan.

Our bottom six is a glaring glaring weakness.
They did it last season in the playoffs. I don't think Stoll was the issue, though. If Richards isn't the second line center, he is in even less of a position to succeed. Richards playing the third line will get 30 points max.

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06-25-2013, 01:55 AM
  #1000
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That is why the Stoll extension last summer was incredibly short sighted and poor on DL's part. He should have gotten the same deal Penner got, you bring the Cup team back together, while giving both guys a chance to redeem themselves, and if they didn't the Kings wouldn't be between a rock and a hard place with the cap.
A center that can do various things is more valuable than a winger that doesn't do various things. When Penner isn't scoring in the regular season, what is he doing? Sitting in the press box it seems. At least Stoll can win a faceoff and kill a penalty.

Maybe Lombardi can't bring Stoll back for the same exact deal as Penner. Don't bring Stoll back at all then. Who replaces him? Some other free agent you have to overpay in money or years? A prospect who may not be ready?

Quote:
And maybe your right, there might not be a market for Stoll. But what does that tell you about Stoll and what teams think about him and what hes making.
At the same time, there might be a market for Stoll. What would that say about him? Other than he must be gotten rid of right away.

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