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Old
06-25-2013, 04:03 AM
  #1026
damacles1156
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Originally Posted by Moses Doughty View Post
Dmac you may not want to use the Bolland comparison. He was on the 4th line for a good stretch of this postseason. And many fans think he is done.
Bolland did not play well this year, it's no secret. But the Guy is comparable to Stoll(Career wise).

Money Wise too.

Bolland is having issues with injures too, he is turning out to be injury prone.

The other reason I am using Bolland is , some people think the Hawks bottom six is sooooooo much better.

That's a myth, the Hawks best players stepped up and buried the Kings.

I will concede the Hawks have Better wingers , But their bottom six Statistics wise is not that much better.

The Hawks will still have a second line Center hole next year(unless they get someone cheap or rookie steps up)...Crawford over 82 games ? Emery will be gone most likely.

Bickell would be stupid to resign with the Hawks, huge payday waiting for him July 5th.

The Hawks are going to have holes like everyone else next season.

Who could have predicted that Michael Handzus would outplay Kopitar ????

Also I will say it, Crawford outplayed Quick.....You think Quick is going to allow that to happen again next year ?

I don't.


Last edited by damacles1156: 06-25-2013 at 04:15 AM.
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Old
06-25-2013, 04:18 AM
  #1027
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Has nothing to do with that, You don't trade Slava for Nail.

You trade him for a Legit Top Six LW that will fill the hole you have had on your team for Six years now.

Someone like Patrick Sharp. Or Taylor Hall. An Established Difference maker.

Not some kid (who doesn't play LW to begin with)you hope pans out.
Swaping Stoll for Nails and bringing back WM/RS/RR and filling out the rest of the roster leaves about 3.5 million for the 2nd line LW spot....

Hall makes 6 million... cap don't work...

would need to find a young LW on an EL contract.. don't think that will happen... Nino from Islanders? Don't know of any others...

filling the LW hole looks like Holloway/Frattin/Pearson/Kitsyn or a UFA making under 3.5 million...

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Old
06-25-2013, 04:21 AM
  #1028
Moses Doughty
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Bolland did not play well this year, it's no secret. But the Guy is comparable to Stoll(Career wise).

Money Wise too.

Bolland is having issues with injures too, he is turning out to be injury prone.

The other reason I am using Bolland is , some people think the Hawks bottom six is sooooooo much better.

That's a myth, the Hawks best players stepped up and buried the Kings.

I will concede the Hawks have Better wingers , But their bottom six Statistics wise is not that much better.

The Hawks will stay have a second line Center hole next year...Crawford over 82 games ? Emery will be gone most likely.

Bickell would stupid to resign with the Hawks, huge payday waiting for him July 5th.

The Hawks are going to have holes like everyone else next season.

Bolland has been a good comparison for the past, but we shoudn't be living in the past. We can't rely on a 3rd line center who will dissapear offensively when it matters. That's why the Blackhawks could win. They realized Bolland was not getting his job done so they put Shaw in that spot and he had a great postseason. One point in 12 games is absolutely pathetic and no team can ever win with those numbers. As a King, he is on a below 20 point pace in the playoffs.

And sure, Chicago may have won because their big guns did better. But in no way were they not much better on the bottom 6. Their bottom 6 could produce points. Our top full time point scorer on the bottom 6 was Dwight King who had 5 points in 18 games. A 22 point pace over 82 games. The Blackhawks had ONE player in the bottom 6 do worse, and that was Stalberg who was benched at times. King's stats were similar PPG wise to Kruger and Saad also. Saad was a 19 year old rookie and Kruger a 4th liner. The rest of their bottom 6 did better. Even Bolland who Hawks fans called a liability did better than any Kings bottom 6 player. Frolik and Shaw combined for 19 points, which was more than our entire bottom 6.

We need more from the bottom 6 to win, and Stoll is not the answer anymore. On the 4th line he would probably do better. But I imagine this top 9.

Brown-Kopitar-Williams
Frattin/Holloway/FA-Carter-Toffoli
Holloway/Frattin/FA-Richards-Lewis

If we sign Holloway our top 9 is potentially set. One player I would like to add is Lauri Korpikoski. Has wheels and good offensive talent and could be relatively cheap.

Sure Stoll is good at faceoffs. But faceoffs and decent PK ability is not worth 3+ million and no offense. If we need a faceoff guy so badly sign David Steckel/Boyd Gordon type to play on the 4th line with Nolan, Clifford, and King rotating. And PK has Kopi, Brown, Richards, Carter, Lewis as the 5 horses. I'm pretty sure Williams played PK too.

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06-25-2013, 04:29 AM
  #1029
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Originally Posted by Moses Doughty View Post
Bolland has been a good comparison for the past, but we shoudn't be living in the past. We can't rely on a 3rd line center who will dissapear offensively when it matters. That's why the Blackhawks could win. They realized Bolland was not getting his job done so they put Shaw in that spot and he had a great postseason. One point in 12 games is absolutely pathetic and no team can ever win with those numbers. As a King, he is on a below 20 point pace in the playoffs.

And sure, Chicago may have won because their big guns did better. But in no way were they not much better on the bottom 6. Their bottom 6 could produce points. Our top full time point scorer on the bottom 6 was Dwight King who had 5 points in 18 games. A 22 point pace over 82 games. The Blackhawks had ONE player in the bottom 6 do worse, and that was Stalberg who was benched at times. King's stats were similar PPG wise to Kruger and Saad also. Saad was a 19 year old rookie and Kruger a 4th liner. The rest of their bottom 6 did better. Even Bolland who Hawks fans called a liability did better than any Kings bottom 6 player. Frolik and Shaw combined for 19 points, which was more than our entire bottom 6.

We need more from the bottom 6 to win, and Stoll is not the answer anymore. On the 4th line he would probably do better. But I imagine this top 9.

Brown-Kopitar-Williams
Frattin/Holloway/FA-Carter-Toffoli
Holloway/Frattin/FA-Richards-Lewis

If we sign Holloway our top 9 is potentially set. One player I would like to add is Lauri Korpikoski. Has wheels and good offensive talent and could be relatively cheap.

Sure Stoll is good at faceoffs. But faceoffs and decent PK ability is not worth 3+ million and no offense. If we need a faceoff guy so badly sign David Steckel/Boyd Gordon type to play on the 4th line with Nolan, Clifford, and King rotating. And PK has Kopi, Brown, Richards, Carter, Lewis as the 5 horses. I'm pretty sure Williams played PK too.
Over the course of the playoffs the Hawks bottom six produced.

But against the Kings is was not the reason they won.

The Hawks Bottom six was pretty much non existent.

Frolik+ Shaw had two points Total.....


The Hawks best players killed the Kings....Sharp,Kane,Hossa.(Bickell playing a top six role)...

The Kings bottom six including Stoll, produced enough to win the Kings their first Cup in History.

Had Brown+Kopitar+Drew stepped up, that series is different. And no one is complaining.

During the season the bottom six scored and bottom six pace.

They all except for King/Penner were on pace to beat career averages.

You guys are making mountains out of nothing. Bottom Six players don't score 50 points a year....They are really good if they hit 35-40 points.

I am shocked at the lack of outrage about Brown+Kopitar+Doughty.

Those guys were about 50% off the pace they had last year.

They are paid to score, and produce. I don't care Drew had a sprained ankle, You make 7 Million dollars a year.

He was awful against the Hawks.


Last edited by damacles1156: 06-25-2013 at 04:42 AM.
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Old
06-25-2013, 04:53 AM
  #1030
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Third line Centers I like and their cap hits.
Dave Bolland 3.3m
Paul Gaustad 3.25m
Mike Fisher (bounces around with 2nd line duty)3m
Brandon Sutter 2.7m
Steve Ott (plays center when needed) 3.2m

Boston has the best probably.

Its ether Kelly 3m or Peverley 3.25m.

Stoll is paid like a Third line Center.....


Last edited by damacles1156: 06-25-2013 at 05:04 AM.
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Old
06-25-2013, 05:13 AM
  #1031
Moses Doughty
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The point I was making is that Chicago won the Cup because everyone was putting up points. We can't expect to win Cups with Stoll's 19 point/82 game pace in the postseason anchoring the 3rd line. I don't care if my 3rd liners score 40 points which would be great. I want them to produce when it matters. Stoll has a history of not doing that for the Kings. Sure he's good at faceoffs but that's replaceable in free agency.

Let's go through those centers

Bolland-Decent season, regressed. Hawks fans wondering what to do with him and he's 4th line in playoffs
Gaustad-11 points in 47 games in Nashville. I'm not 100% sure but I believe he was a 4th liner quite often
Fisher-Would be a great 3rd liner, much better than Stoll tbh
Sutter-Decent, I think Pittsburgh expected more out of him this year
Ott-Good player who I hate. I do believe he has been 2nd line though so he's putting up decent stats
Peverley-Boston fans want him gone. They'd pretty much give him away for free
Kelly-I do believe he played 4th line this year but he's good in the role and puts up better offense than Stoll

Of the guys you mentioned who did better than Stoll, 1 was a 3rd liner on an offensive dynamo in Pittsburgh and the others played 2nd line minutes. The rest who were equivalent to Stoll in offense were sometimes/mostly 4th liners and their future is questioned among the team's fans. That's an issue

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Old
06-25-2013, 05:21 AM
  #1032
damacles1156
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Originally Posted by Moses Doughty View Post
The point I was making is that Chicago won the Cup because everyone was putting up points. We can't expect to win Cups with Stoll's 19 point/82 game pace in the postseason anchoring the 3rd line. I don't care if my 3rd liners score 40 points which would be great. I want them to produce when it matters. Stoll has a history of not doing that for the Kings. Sure he's good at faceoffs but that's replaceable in free agency.

Let's go through those centers

Bolland-Decent season, regressed. Hawks fans wondering what to do with him and he's 4th line in playoffs
Gaustad-11 points in 47 games in Nashville. I'm not 100% sure but I believe he was a 4th liner quite often
Fisher-Would be a great 3rd liner, much better than Stoll tbh
Sutter-Decent, I think Pittsburgh expected more out of him this year
Ott-Good player who I hate. I do believe he has been 2nd line though so he's putting up decent stats
Peverley-Boston fans want him gone. They'd pretty much give him away for free
Kelly-I do believe he played 4th line this year but he's good in the role and puts up better offense than Stoll

Of the guys you mentioned who did better than Stoll, 1 was a 3rd liner on an offensive dynamo in Pittsburgh and the others played 2nd line minutes. The rest who were equivalent to Stoll in offense were sometimes/mostly 4th liners and their future is questioned among the team's fans. That's an issue


Bolland played an awful lot of minutes on that fourth line then.

Same goes for Gaustad.

Ott is a third line guy, but he can play wing as well.

When Ott is on a proper team with depth he is a third line player.

I would love more players that score when it counts too. But those players cost money.

Hench Bickell going to get a fat raise....

Which is why the Kings need Kopitar+Brown+Drew to not have another post season like this one they just had.

Or someone on an ELC to step up and produce gang busters style in the top six.

Looking at you Toffoli.

If Lombardi felt Stoll could easily replaced in UFA. Wouldn't he have done that ?

Especially when Stoll was coming off a career worse year...


Last edited by damacles1156: 06-25-2013 at 05:32 AM.
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Old
06-25-2013, 05:59 AM
  #1033
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Yeesh Mayor pointed something out about the Kings on his website.

Pearson/Vey both have 900k Cap hits.

They cost more than guys like Lewis 735k/King 750k/Clifford 714k/Nolan 535k/Fraser 825k....

Wow, that is how cheap the Kings Qualified those RFA at.

So moving Pearson/Vey into the lineup would actually cost the Kings more money than to bring back the RFA.

food for thought.

The Cap coming down, Signing Regehr,Mitchell injury has really kind of screwed the Kings.

Lewis I could see asking for more money than the Qualified 735k.

That 500k Lombardi got out of Toronto may prove to be Huge.

Edit:

I have the Toronto/Bruins series on my DVR.

Frattin is just like Brown, Hits everything that moves. But when he is not going north/south......Not effective.

Got decent looking hands, not afraid to hit people that's for sure. Good Speed.


Last edited by damacles1156: 06-25-2013 at 06:30 AM.
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Old
06-25-2013, 08:44 AM
  #1034
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Yeesh Mayor pointed something out about the Kings on his website.

Pearson/Vey both have 900k Cap hits.

They cost more than guys like Lewis 735k/King 750k/Clifford 714k/Nolan 535k/Fraser 825k....

Wow, that is how cheap the Kings Qualified those RFA at.

So moving Pearson/Vey into the lineup would actually cost the Kings more money than to bring back the RFA.

food for thought.

The Cap coming down, Signing Regehr,Mitchell injury has really kind of screwed the Kings.

Lewis I could see asking for more money than the Qualified 735k.

That 500k Lombardi got out of Toronto may prove to be Huge.

Edit:

I have the Toronto/Bruins series on my DVR.

Frattin is just like Brown, Hits everything that moves. But when he is not going north/south......Not effective.

Got decent looking hands, not afraid to hit people that's for sure. Good Speed.
Precisely... if The Kings sign Scuderi, guys like Cliche & Campbell have an excellent shot at making the team based on their $500+K salaries (in theory). Fraser and Martinez would need to be dealt for picks...or something like that.

People forget our top prospects make almost $1M vs. the cap.

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06-25-2013, 09:16 AM
  #1035
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Originally Posted by Moses Doughty View Post
The point I was making is that Chicago won the Cup because everyone was putting up points. We can't expect to win Cups with Stoll's 19 point/82 game pace in the postseason anchoring the 3rd line. I don't care if my 3rd liners score 40 points which would be great. I want them to produce when it matters. Stoll has a history of not doing that for the Kings. Sure he's good at faceoffs but that's replaceable in free agency.

Let's go through those centers

Bolland-Decent season, regressed. Hawks fans wondering what to do with him and he's 4th line in playoffs
Gaustad-11 points in 47 games in Nashville. I'm not 100% sure but I believe he was a 4th liner quite often
Fisher-Would be a great 3rd liner, much better than Stoll tbh
Sutter-Decent, I think Pittsburgh expected more out of him this year
Ott-Good player who I hate. I do believe he has been 2nd line though so he's putting up decent stats
Peverley-Boston fans want him gone. They'd pretty much give him away for free
Kelly-I do believe he played 4th line this year but he's good in the role and puts up better offense than Stoll

Of the guys you mentioned who did better than Stoll, 1 was a 3rd liner on an offensive dynamo in Pittsburgh and the others played 2nd line minutes. The rest who were equivalent to Stoll in offense were sometimes/mostly 4th liners and their future is questioned among the team's fans. That's an issue
Every team has players who produce less than what their paycheck says they should. It's guaranteed to happen.

If Stoll is so ineffective relative to his cap hit, who is banging down the door to take him? Especially for the nebulous draft pick that everyone wants for him. With Stoll that bad, the other team is doing the Kings a favor trading for him. They're going to be extra nice and take on that contract and lack of production for basically nothing?

Figure on Stoll being on the Kings next year. Any line speculation should keep Stoll's name on the team. He will either be the 3rd line center, or a very expensive 4th line center. If Lombardi was dumb enough to give a player like Stoll as much money and years as he did last summer, he's not going to be smart enough to get rid of him this summer.

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06-25-2013, 09:43 AM
  #1036
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Originally Posted by Moses Doughty View Post
Bolland has been a good comparison for the past, but we shoudn't be living in the past. We can't rely on a 3rd line center who will dissapear offensively when it matters. That's why the Blackhawks could win. They realized Bolland was not getting his job done so they put Shaw in that spot and he had a great postseason. One point in 12 games is absolutely pathetic and no team can ever win with those numbers. As a King, he is on a below 20 point pace in the playoffs.

And sure, Chicago may have won because their big guns did better. But in no way were they not much better on the bottom 6. Their bottom 6 could produce points. Our top full time point scorer on the bottom 6 was Dwight King who had 5 points in 18 games. A 22 point pace over 82 games. The Blackhawks had ONE player in the bottom 6 do worse, and that was Stalberg who was benched at times. King's stats were similar PPG wise to Kruger and Saad also. Saad was a 19 year old rookie and Kruger a 4th liner. The rest of their bottom 6 did better. Even Bolland who Hawks fans called a liability did better than any Kings bottom 6 player. Frolik and Shaw combined for 19 points, which was more than our entire bottom 6.

We need more from the bottom 6 to win, and Stoll is not the answer anymore. On the 4th line he would probably do better. But I imagine this top 9.
What did Chicago do last year?

Kane - 6GP, 0G, 4Pts(a future Conn Smythe winner did this)
Sharp - 6GP, 1G, 1Pt
Hossa - 3GP, 0G, 0Pts
Bickell - 6GP, 2G, 2Pts
Bolland - 6GP, 0G, 3Pts
Keith - 6GP, 0G, 1 Pt

It changes from year to year.

Look at Boston last year:

Peverly - 7GP, 3G, 5Pts(led their team in playoff scoring last year...crazy right?)
Krejci - 7GP, 1G, 3Pts
Lucic - 7GP, 0G, 3Pts
Chara - 7GP, 1G, 3Pts
Bergeron - 7GP, 0G, 2Pts
Marchand - 7GP 1G, 2Pts
Campbell - 7GP, 0G, 2Pts
Paille - 7GP, 1G, 1Pt

The Kings got some production from their bottom 6 last year, as well as their top 6. Teams that win the Cup get production from both sets at the same time. Teams that don't get simultaneous production do not. But you can't be sure year to year if it's going to happen or not.

It sounds like you want, and somewhat expect, far more certainty than is probably possible.

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06-25-2013, 09:58 AM
  #1037
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the Hawks will again be faced with some significant offseason changes. sports radio here in Chicago and guys i know that are big Hawks fans already know this. this was being discussed well before last night's SC win.

five guys that are speculated that won't return, or will be bought out are:
Bolland
Hossa
Emery
Stalberg
Bickell

Bolland and Hossa are both coming up in talks concerning the buyouts. whether it is this summer or next, both of them are always mentioned as buyouts. Bolland it only applies though for this summer, as he is a UFA after next season. Hossa especially is mentioned, long term that contract will be a boat anchor for the BH's. Bolland is mentioned for the same reasons that Stoll is mentioned by LA fans. what a small world

Emery and Stalberg are both UFA's that will possibly depart for other opportunities. Emery played excellent this season and likely has a chance of moving someplace and becoming the #1 as a true 'bridge' type player for a club. Stalberg will likely move along for more money and to get away from Q's wrath. this may be his one chance to secure a decent payday for a 2-4 year term.

Bickell is also UFA and has the best chance of cashing in. the guy was a tremendous down the stretch for the BH's. BUT....when he was on the wing with Toews. when Q moved him off Toews wing, Bickell was lost out there. there will be some serious offers made to the big guy, but i won't be surprised to see him take the hometown discount and stay with CHI.

iirc they are still carrying the contracts for Montador and Brookbank next season, which is $4M. it is highly likely they re-sign Rozsival and Leddy, so they need money there.

Bowman will again have some serious re-tooling to do this offseason for CHI. not quite as extensive as post 2010, but it will change the face of the team for next year.

i still predict that LA & CHI will be the teams to beat in the west for years to come

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06-25-2013, 10:32 AM
  #1038
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Originally Posted by Whiskeypete View Post
the Hawks will again be faced with some significant offseason changes. sports radio here in Chicago and guys i know that are big Hawks fans already know this. this was being discussed well before last night's SC win.

five guys that are speculated that won't return, or will be bought out are:
Bolland
Hossa
Emery
Stalberg
Bickell

Bolland and Hossa are both coming up in talks concerning the buyouts. whether it is this summer or next, both of them are always mentioned as buyouts. Bolland it only applies though for this summer, as he is a UFA after next season. Hossa especially is mentioned, long term that contract will be a boat anchor for the BH's. Bolland is mentioned for the same reasons that Stoll is mentioned by LA fans. what a small world

Emery and Stalberg are both UFA's that will possibly depart for other opportunities. Emery played excellent this season and likely has a chance of moving someplace and becoming the #1 as a true 'bridge' type player for a club. Stalberg will likely move along for more money and to get away from Q's wrath. this may be his one chance to secure a decent payday for a 2-4 year term.

Bickell is also UFA and has the best chance of cashing in. the guy was a tremendous down the stretch for the BH's. BUT....when he was on the wing with Toews. when Q moved him off Toews wing, Bickell was lost out there. there will be some serious offers made to the big guy, but i won't be surprised to see him take the hometown discount and stay with CHI.

iirc they are still carrying the contracts for Montador and Brookbank next season, which is $4M. it is highly likely they re-sign Rozsival and Leddy, so they need money there.

Bowman will again have some serious re-tooling to do this offseason for CHI. not quite as extensive as post 2010, but it will change the face of the team for next year.

i still predict that LA & CHI will be the teams to beat in the west for years to come
Still nowhere near as bad as their situation after they won their cup 3 years ago. Credit to Stan Bowman for re-tooling that mess created by Tallon and still forming a group together to win another cup. They kept their core together but added important pieces/role players to go along with Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook and Sharp. Kudos.

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06-25-2013, 10:59 AM
  #1039
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Still nowhere near as bad as their situation after they won their cup 3 years ago. Credit to Stan Bowman for re-tooling that mess created by Tallon and still forming a group together to win another cup. They kept their core together but added important pieces/role players to go along with Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook and Sharp. Kudos.
They kept their core, and went through a few years of letting cheap young players develop at the NHL level.

Chicago ended up going out in the 1st round round in each of the two seasons between Cups. Kane(future Conn Smythe winner) had 1 goal in 13 playoff games during that time. Toews(previously won the Conn Smythe) with 3 in 13. Hossa 2 in 10. Sharp 4 in 13.

It happens.

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06-25-2013, 11:06 AM
  #1040
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Here is how I see this working out:

Scuderi - He will go to free agency. My guess is PITT will be dying to get him back. He was very undervalued in their Cup run and Im sure they would LOVE to have him back...even if they have to overpay a little.
For the Kings, hopefully Mitchell returns. In that case, Regehr basically replaces Scuderi and all is well. Regehr is a year younger than Scuderi and plays a similar shutdown style.

Holloway - The Kings would be stupid not to sign him. It will probably come down to Penner or Holloway. When its between a 30 year old Penner who still probably wants $2 mill or more (and can get it as UFA) and a 25 year old Holloway who still has some upside and would probably take $1 - $1.5, I think the choice is pretty clear. I'm sure LA will low-ball him until July 5, but I still see them coming to their senses and signing him.


Your team will look pretty deep at that point:
Brown - Kopitar - Williams
Holloway - Richards - Carter
Toffoli - Stoll - Frattin
Clifford - Lewis - King
Fraser

Doughty - Regehr
Voynov - Mitchell
Muzzin - Greene
Martinez

Quick
Scrivens

Even this very conservative approach will only leave you with about $1-$1.5 million in cap room. So LA trying to re-sign Penner and Scuderi is completely unrealistic...they are dreaming.
swap frattin and toffoli and it looks about right but the biggest thing to remember is that both Holloway and Frattin bring speed and some really gritty/chippy play which fits right in.again good job with this line up p.s. ellerby =650k of free money

i copied and pasted this from the bud thread lol

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06-25-2013, 11:16 AM
  #1041
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The other thing that really concerns me next year, is Sochi.

The Kings have the potential of Carter/Richards/Drew/Brown/Quick/Kopitar.

All playing....I really don't want another Cup Run sabotaged by injures.
I would also give Slava a decent shot at making team Russia, I think it will only be one of Carter/Richards on Canada I'd bet on it being Richie.

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06-25-2013, 12:48 PM
  #1042
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If Carter is at even 2/3 the goal pace in 13/14 that he was this past year, he's a lock for Team Canada.

Look at the way they built their team in 2010 - a lot of established familiarity. Crosby-Iginla will still likely be on their first line, Stamkos will be on the second, and then you'll have Getzlaf-Perry and likely Richards-Carter in the bottom six.

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06-25-2013, 01:22 PM
  #1043
Brad Doty
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Sorry Winger23, Black1963--was extra grouchy last night for no real reason and just got to re-read your posts. You were right. Apologies.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
What did Chicago do last year?

Kane - 6GP, 0G, 4Pts(a future Conn Smythe winner did this)
Sharp - 6GP, 1G, 1Pt
Hossa - 3GP, 0G, 0Pts
Bickell - 6GP, 2G, 2Pts
Bolland - 6GP, 0G, 3Pts
Keith - 6GP, 0G, 1 Pt

It changes from year to year.

Look at Boston last year:

Peverly - 7GP, 3G, 5Pts(led their team in playoff scoring last year...crazy right?)
Krejci - 7GP, 1G, 3Pts
Lucic - 7GP, 0G, 3Pts
Chara - 7GP, 1G, 3Pts
Bergeron - 7GP, 0G, 2Pts
Marchand - 7GP 1G, 2Pts
Campbell - 7GP, 0G, 2Pts
Paille - 7GP, 1G, 1Pt

The Kings got some production from their bottom 6 last year, as well as their top 6. Teams that win the Cup get production from both sets at the same time. Teams that don't get simultaneous production do not. But you can't be sure year to year if it's going to happen or not.

It sounds like you want, and somewhat expect, far more certainty than is probably possible.
Crazy how that goes, eh? And is partly why the cup is who is clicking at the right time. Last year, amongst everyone firing on all cylinders, we had Dwight freaking King lighting it up like Bickell this year. There is no certainty--people can slump or catch fire at any time. Patrick Kane was invisible for most of the first two rounds this year...what happened after?

I think it's telling of how competitive our team is going to be year-to-year that seemingly everyone was slumping/injured at once and we still limped to the WCF and went down with pride to the eventual cup winners.

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06-25-2013, 01:22 PM
  #1044
AKAY47
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
There are going to be a few big announcements over the next couple of days.

This **** just got real.
Bryzgalov buyout? Is that what you were referring to? Hahaha

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06-25-2013, 01:28 PM
  #1045
Brad Doty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Nor should he.

Scuderi isn't worth that, sorry. I know a lot of this board gets wood whenever his name is mentioned, but he's starting to get older and frankly I don't think he looked that great when he was asked to play top pairing minutes at the start of the season. He's a stud stay at home guy, but $3.5 million is his max value in my books. Anything more and he can walk. We'll get by without him and if we really need to we can seek out a replacement via trade.
I think the money is ok but the term is a killer imo. Scuds will get 4 years from NYI or someone and we won't do that. And i lol'ed hard at the italicized

I think his money can be used for Holloway and if Soderberg's play was any indication than those skills are translatable. I think both him and Frattin may be 2nd/3rd line tweeners, but Holloway would be a good 3rd liner at worst, and both are definite upgrades on King in that spot. I still hold out hope that we'll snag him.

Also, so as not to slag on King--I think he still has more than he has shown us. I still look forward to what Sutter can do with a training camp for some of the kids who sophomore slumped (King, Nolan, Clifford) and seem to have stagnated in development.

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06-25-2013, 01:34 PM
  #1046
Moses Doughty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
Every team has players who produce less than what their paycheck says they should. It's guaranteed to happen.

If Stoll is so ineffective relative to his cap hit, who is banging down the door to take him? Especially for the nebulous draft pick that everyone wants for him. With Stoll that bad, the other team is doing the Kings a favor trading for him. They're going to be extra nice and take on that contract and lack of production for basically nothing?

Figure on Stoll being on the Kings next year. Any line speculation should keep Stoll's name on the team. He will either be the 3rd line center, or a very expensive 4th line center. If Lombardi was dumb enough to give a player like Stoll as much money and years as he did last summer, he's not going to be smart enough to get rid of him this summer.
Teams are prone to overpay for players, and may overlook his stats. Seemingly every other fanbase on HF thinks he is so good still. We don't expect to get a whole bunch for him, and we also know his value isn't very high.

I don't think we could afford him as a 4th line center. I'd like to keep him there if we could but money wise it seems impossible if we're actually getting decent wingers for Richards.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
What did Chicago do last year?

Kane - 6GP, 0G, 4Pts(a future Conn Smythe winner did this)
Sharp - 6GP, 1G, 1Pt
Hossa - 3GP, 0G, 0Pts
Bickell - 6GP, 2G, 2Pts
Bolland - 6GP, 0G, 3Pts
Keith - 6GP, 0G, 1 Pt

It changes from year to year.

Look at Boston last year:

Peverly - 7GP, 3G, 5Pts(led their team in playoff scoring last year...crazy right?)
Krejci - 7GP, 1G, 3Pts
Lucic - 7GP, 0G, 3Pts
Chara - 7GP, 1G, 3Pts
Bergeron - 7GP, 0G, 2Pts
Marchand - 7GP 1G, 2Pts
Campbell - 7GP, 0G, 2Pts
Paille - 7GP, 1G, 1Pt

The Kings got some production from their bottom 6 last year, as well as their top 6. Teams that win the Cup get production from both sets at the same time. Teams that don't get simultaneous production do not. But you can't be sure year to year if it's going to happen or not.

It sounds like you want, and somewhat expect, far more certainty than is probably possible.
You proved my exact point by saying we get production from both top 6 and bottom 6. And yeah, Peverley was great before this year according to Bruins fans. And Stoll has never proven that he can produce enough. He's a 19 point per year player based on the playoffs, and yes he scored the goal against Vancouver to end it but otherwise...5 points, just above his pace. Our bottom 6 contribution was King and Lewis, who combined for 17 points in 20 games, which was huge.

I just want a guy who can be expected to score more than .2 PPG in the playoffs, because unless guys around you are scoring alot more you're not winning.

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06-25-2013, 01:45 PM
  #1047
Winger23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MN14 View Post
Sorry Winger23, Black1963--was extra grouchy last night for no real reason and just got to re-read your posts. You were right. Apologies.
It's all good. Everyone has those days, but in the end we all support the same team regardless of how different each person plays armchair GM.

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06-25-2013, 01:50 PM
  #1048
Mats26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie10 View Post
If Carter is at even 2/3 the goal pace in 13/14 that he was this past year, he's a lock for Team Canada.

Look at the way they built their team in 2010 - a lot of established familiarity. Crosby-Iginla will still likely be on their first line, Stamkos will be on the second, and then you'll have Getzlaf-Perry and likely Richards-Carter in the bottom six.
...lol dude Iginla on the first line? r u for real. Bigger ice surface, they will go with more speed.

Tavares, Duchene,Toews, Bergeron, Staal(s), Hall, Eberly....Iggy won't go to Sochi.

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06-25-2013, 02:06 PM
  #1049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moses Doughty View Post
I don't think we could afford him as a 4th line center. I'd like to keep him there if we could but money wise it seems impossible if we're actually getting decent wingers for Richards.
Which is why he's going to be the 3rd line center. It's unlikely that he won't be. If you're making lines, until something actually changes, work around Kopitar/Richards/Stoll as the top 3 centers.

Quote:
You proved my exact point by saying we get production from both top 6 and bottom 6. And yeah, Peverley was great before this year according to Bruins fans. And Stoll has never proven that he can produce enough. He's a 19 point per year player based on the playoffs, and yes he scored the goal against Vancouver to end it but otherwise...5 points, just above his pace. Our bottom 6 contribution was King and Lewis, who combined for 17 points in 20 games, which was huge.

I just want a guy who can be expected to score more than .2 PPG in the playoffs, because unless guys around you are scoring alot more you're not winning.
But scoring and winning come playoff time can be fickle. Patrick Kane had 1 goal in 13 playoff games between 2011 and 2012. He tripled that production in Game 5 alone against the Kings this year.

You just don't know what will happen. King had 4 goals in 5 games against Phoenix last year. Kane had 0 goals in 6 games against the same Coyote team last year. Maybe Stoll has a crazy playoff next year. Maybe he doesn't.

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06-25-2013, 02:08 PM
  #1050
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
Which is why he's going to be the 3rd line center. It's unlikely that he won't be. If you're making lines, until something actually changes, work around Kopitar/Richards/Stoll as the top 3 centers.



But scoring and winning come playoff time can be fickle. Patrick Kane had 1 goal in 13 playoff games between 2011 and 2012. He tripled that production in Game 5 alone against the Kings this year.

You just don't know what will happen. King had 4 goals in 5 games against Phoenix last year. Kane had 0 goals in 6 games against the same Coyote team last year. Maybe Stoll has a crazy playoff next year. Maybe he doesn't.
True, but you can see which players have the jump and the burning desire to succeed...and that usually trumps bad playoff luck. Kopitar was a shell of his 2012 self. Brown was injured, so can't comment until next season. Guys like Richards, Voynov and Quick were the difference makers. Carter and Williams did pretty well. Need Kopitar/Doughty to be better.

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