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Ryan Miller

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Old
06-24-2013, 08:17 PM
  #76
NitHeel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegomyLeggio View Post
It depends what numbers you look at.

If you look at Even Strength Save%, it doesn't look like Miller is in decline.

12/13 - .928
11/12 - .922
10/11 - .924
09/10 - .928 (Vezina Trophy season)
08/09 - .927
07/08 - .915
06/07 - .928
05/06 - .928

As a comparison, Pekka Rinne had a .927 EVSave% this season.

So what you're saying is that he probably wouldn't be a fit for a team who is perennially in the top of the league in minor penalties? Like...oh I don't know...the Flyers?

Unless the NHL eliminates special teams, I'll stick with the overall numbers. Miller has been in the late teens in SV% for the last 3 years.

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06-24-2013, 08:24 PM
  #77
Rob Paxon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NitHeel View Post
So what you're saying is that he probably wouldn't be a fit for a team who is perennially in the top of the league in minor penalties? Like...oh I don't know...the Flyers?

Unless the NHL eliminates special teams, I'll stick with the overall numbers. Miller has been in the late teens in SV% for the last 3 years.
Like penalty killing units, systems, and most of all luck don't have an effect on his PK SV%...

The reason people evaluate goalies based on their ES SV% is because it is less flukey. PK SV% ends up having a disproportionate effect on overall SV% for several reasons.

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Old
06-24-2013, 08:41 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasper11 View Post
Buffalo fans...if the return isn't great (say 2nd round pick + decent but not great prospect), do you still see the team moving Miller?
No - Regier has built a reputation on overvaluing his players. Miller is one of his 3 most marketable assets; he'd rather keep him and buy time than to give him away in a trade that he perceives as a win for the other team.

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Old
06-24-2013, 08:46 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
No - Regier has built a reputation on overvaluing his players. Miller is one of his 3 most marketable assets; he'd rather keep him and buy time than to give him away in a trade that he perceives as a win for the other team.
You gotta think Miller is worth atleast a 1st and a good prospect.

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06-24-2013, 09:02 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
No - Regier has built a reputation on overvaluing his players. Miller is one of his 3 most marketable assets; he'd rather keep him and buy time than to give him away in a trade that he perceives as a win for the other team.
If Miller's return is that low then Ryan's not really one of his most marketable assets.

Vanek is worth more, Myers, Ehrhoff, probably a ton of guys if I want to keep rattling them off.

Regier pretty much flat out said he's not going to let Vanek and Miller walk away without getting anything in return the way he did Briere and Drury. Maybe that means a deadline deal but either way.

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06-24-2013, 11:50 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NitHeel View Post
Because he's 33 and his numbers have gone down each of the last 3 seasons.
.916, .916, .915 save% in the last 3 years.

2.59, 2.55, 2.81 GAA in the last 3 years.


Like I said in my other post, his GAA was under 2.00 in his last 30 games last year after coming back from a concussion. This year his save% BARELY dropped and he was playing behind arguably the worst defensive team.

To me, that doesn't seem much of a decline in his numbers.


Last edited by Elum: 06-25-2013 at 12:00 AM.
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Old
06-25-2013, 12:07 AM
  #82
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Yeah, this "decline" nonsense is hilarious. Dominik Hasek had his two Hart seasons at 32 and 33, and won Vezinas at 32, 33, 34, and 36. Look at what Brodeur is doing still. Hell, even look at Nabakov, Kipper, Osgood. I'm not saying that Miller is any of those guys, but the fact is that goalies do not decline like skaters. Their bodies don't take the physical punishment that skaters do, and they are usually the most fit on the team, giving them longer careers.

Miller is not on the decline, he could still win the Vezina if he was given a half-competent defense. He's still in his prime years, and the Sabres probably would've been picking #1 without him this year. His value might not be high right now, but that is because of the market for goaltenders.

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Old
06-25-2013, 12:08 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
If Miller's return is that low then Ryan's not really one of his most marketable assets.

Vanek is worth more, Myers, Ehrhoff, probably a ton of guys if I want to keep rattling them off.

Regier pretty much flat out said he's not going to let Vanek and Miller walk away without getting anything in return the way he did Briere and Drury. Maybe that means a deadline deal but either way.
If he moves Ryan...it has to be before start of season... I can't see taking a risk at trade deadline hoping that a contending team has a goalie injury or goalie troubles..

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Old
06-25-2013, 08:39 AM
  #84
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So many people seem to be forgetting that they would probably be getting Miller at 3M. Not 6. The sabres are almost forced to keep some of the salary, because losing the 6 million in Miller's contract will put them just under the salary floor.

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Old
06-25-2013, 09:33 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
So many people seem to be forgetting that they would probably be getting Miller at 3M. Not 6. The sabres are almost forced to keep some of the salary, because losing the 6 million in Miller's contract will put them just under the salary floor.
Retaining salary would definitely up Miller's value, but the Isles have a bunch of cap space so they could theoretically take on the full value contract and not flinch. Of course it would all depend on Wang to authorize it, but the Isles are quite a bit below the cap floor.

With the expected re-signings of Hamonic and Bailey to long term contracts and the re-singings of the other tendered RFA's, the Isles need some money/cap hits to get over the floor. Add in the expected buyout/(amnesty?) of DP, they Isles have some money to spend on a goalie or possibly 2. It looks like the base plan is to re-sign Nabby to a 1-year deal and have Poulin backing him up with Nilsson expected to get the lion's share of starts in the AHL.

Miller would be a great 1-year stop gap (at the least if he doesn't re-sign) to give the kids more time to bounce back and prove themselves. The opportunity for Snow to acquire Miller on the cheap... they could offer to take on the entire salary to lower the asking price. The return probably wouldn't make Buffalo fans too happy, but Miller would be gone.

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06-25-2013, 09:40 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
Retaining salary would definitely up Miller's value, but the Isles have a bunch of cap space so they could theoretically take on the full value contract and not flinch. Of course it would all depend on Wang to authorize it, but the Isles are quite a bit below the cap floor.

With the expected re-signings of Hamonic and Bailey to long term contracts and the re-singings of the other tendered RFA's, the Isles need some money/cap hits to get over the floor. Add in the expected buyout/(amnesty?) of DP, they Isles have some money to spend on a goalie or possibly 2. It looks like the base plan is to re-sign Nabby to a 1-year deal and have Poulin backing him up with Nilsson expected to get the lion's share of starts in the AHL.

Miller would be a great 1-year stop gap (at the least if he doesn't re-sign) to give the kids more time to bounce back and prove themselves. The opportunity for Snow to acquire Miller on the cheap... they could offer to take on the entire salary to lower the asking price. The return probably wouldn't make Buffalo fans too happy, but Miller would be gone.
You're not going to obtain Miller on the cheap.. You're acting like teams are doing BUffalo a favor.

He's going to get his value...no more...no less.

He'll get either a high draft pick or couple of lower ones with a decent prospect ect.. not a huge return but nothing to sneeze at either.

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Old
06-25-2013, 12:20 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noteman View Post
It has been said by the Blues beat writers that it is very possible the Blues will trade both Halak and Elliott and go with a new goalie and Allen backing him up.
I'd love to see the Blues trade Halak for an upgrade, keep Allen in the AHL during the year and then trade Elliott during the season (when another team might need a goalie due to injury, etc) and call up Allen. Miller would be an obvious upgrade that I hope our management would consider.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
It was also said we offered Halak and Russell and I don't think we would offer more than that....
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
There needs to be something more than that. Why does Buffalo downgrade their goaltending just to pick up a bottom pairing defenseman? That doesn't help us now or in the future.
I agree. I'd also hate to lose Russell, since I'd rather have him and Polak on the 3rd pair and let Leopold walk.

Is Luke Adam available? Blues are lacking depth at center, and I always liked the way he played. Seems like he got passed over for promotion last year, and I was wondering if he was on the outs (or is Rolston going to give him the chance that Lindy didn't?).

As others have mentioned, I'm sure the Blues would be interested, as long as Halak went to Buffalo. I know that many of us would also be interested in moving Chris Stewart, and I'm sure he could work well in Buffalo. How far off would the value be in a Halak+Stewart for Miller+Adam trade?

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Old
06-25-2013, 12:39 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Goose View Post
As others have mentioned, I'm sure the Blues would be interested, as long as Halak went to Buffalo. I know that many of us would also be interested in moving Chris Stewart, and I'm sure he could work well in Buffalo. How far off would the value be in a Halak+Stewart for Miller+Adam trade?
I could see something like that working if Regier tries to add a physical winger to the mix.

Many are hoping Regier is on the prowl for a shutdown center that is good at the dot.

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Old
06-25-2013, 12:44 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Goose View Post
Is Luke Adam available? Blues are lacking depth at center, and I always liked the way he played. Seems like he got passed over for promotion last year, and I was wondering if he was on the outs (or is Rolston going to give him the chance that Lindy didn't?).
He has regressed. He doesn't seem to show the fire you'd like to see. I think a change of scenery would be useful, though, and he'd be cheap.

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Old
06-25-2013, 12:44 PM
  #90
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Miller

really who wants a head case, he treats his own team like crap, does not know when to shut up. He is a high maintenance player who is high on himself. Leave him in Buffalo they deserve each other.

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06-25-2013, 12:58 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by UB1 View Post
really who wants a head case, he treats his own team like crap, does not know when to shut up. He is a high maintenance player who is high on himself. Leave him in Buffalo they deserve each other.
Explains why his teammates voted him their MVP this year.

Miller is a passionate, competitive dude. Buffalo's media circus has just exploited it a few times to make news where there wasn't any. Miller is a caring guy and an upstanding community member though. Anyone who says otherwise probably isn't familiar with even half of the charity work he does.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Goose View Post
I agree. I'd also hate to lose Russell, since I'd rather have him and Polak on the 3rd pair and let Leopold walk.

Is Luke Adam available? Blues are lacking depth at center, and I always liked the way he played. Seems like he got passed over for promotion last year, and I was wondering if he was on the outs (or is Rolston going to give him the chance that Lindy didn't?).

As others have mentioned, I'm sure the Blues would be interested, as long as Halak went to Buffalo. I know that many of us would also be interested in moving Chris Stewart, and I'm sure he could work well in Buffalo. How far off would the value be in a Halak+Stewart for Miller+Adam trade?
I can't imagine why Adam wouldn't be available. His development started trending downward last year, and he just kind of flatlined this year. Maybe a change of scenery would get him going, but the way he's been headed, the difference between Adam and Stewart is definitely greater than that between Halak and Miller. Buffalo would have to add something extra to even out the value, IMO.

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Old
06-25-2013, 01:02 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UB1 View Post
really who wants a head case, he treats his own team like crap, does not know when to shut up. He is a high maintenance player who is high on himself. Leave him in Buffalo they deserve each other.
This was a very constructive post. Thank you for that.


Miller is a cerebral goaltender, for sure. Sometimes it hurts him, but most of the time it benefits him. When he is focused and healthy, he can single-handedly win games. To think/say otherwise is to show your bias against him. He isn't the best goaltender (That spot is reserved for Lundqvist) there is, but he could really help a lot of teams make a legitimate run at the cup.

Miller isn't going to bring a lot back for the Sabres because the market is soaked with goaltenders, and his contract isn't exactly a steal.

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Old
06-25-2013, 01:28 PM
  #93
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I think at the end of the day, Sabres fans might not be thrilled with the return for Miller, but other teams' fans are really under-estimating how good this guy really is. The truth is for the past few seasons (the most recent especially) Miller's defense in front of him has not been great. He never really found the same game he had during his Vezina-winning campaign, but he hasn't out-right regressed. He's one of the best goalies on the market and when you combine that with the possibility that Buffalo could retain salary, he becomes that much more valuable to teams. The outcome will probably just be between Sabres fans hopes, and opposing fans opinions.

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Old
06-25-2013, 01:34 PM
  #94
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Miller has had one of the worst defenses every year of his career. Quick, name the best dmen he has ever play in front of him... Exactly. If this guy had any semblance of a good defense in front of him he would be a multiple Vezina winner. The Sabres philosophy resulted in numerous odd man rushes and breakaways against Miller and yet he bails them out constantly. Miller is a top 10 goalie and no debating it. He isn't a top 5 but he is easily top 10.

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Old
06-25-2013, 01:46 PM
  #95
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A quick thought:

To Buffalo: Coburn, Read, 3rd
To Philly: Miller, McNabb, 50% of Miller's salary retained

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06-25-2013, 02:00 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
A quick thought:

To Buffalo: Coburn, Read, 3rd
To Philly: Miller, McNabb, 50% of Miller's salary retained
done from buffalo

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Old
06-25-2013, 02:15 PM
  #97
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Is McNabb ready to move up to the NHL? Coburn eats a lot of minutes for Philly.

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Old
06-25-2013, 02:15 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TehDoak View Post
A quick thought:

To Buffalo: Coburn, Read, 3rd
To Philly: Miller, McNabb, 50% of Miller's salary retained
A million times over, yes!

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Old
06-25-2013, 02:18 PM
  #99
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McNabb coming to Philly? Oh my.

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06-25-2013, 02:24 PM
  #100
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Whats worng with that?

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